Drug Price increases...Insanity and Inhumane

a reply to: JIMC5499

Exactly. The delivery method for EpiPen isn't even that complex. Really all it is is a spring-loaded syringe. There was no reason for the price to jump other than to maximize profits.

Let me give everyone an example of how disconnected medical care is from actual costs. I just saw an article in today's Wall Street Journal.

What Does Knee Surgery Cost? Few Hospitals Know and that is a Problem

It may be behind a paywall, so here is a summary. A hospital used to raise the cost of routine knee surgery by about 3% per year. It now list costs at $50,000. After some push back from insurance company's they did a study of what it actually costs over 18 months by following around Doctors, nurses, etc and detailed every step and calculated every cost of materials and labor.

It cost no more than $10,000 to do a routine knee surgery, but hospital list costs at $50,000.

The lack of competition, price transparency, and the fact that consumers are disconnected from the purchase decision is what drives the inflated cost that is 5x's what it actually cost.

One of my neighbors is an orthopedic surgeon. He does hip replacements. We were debating healthcare one night and I asked him if I didn't have insurance, but could pay cash and wanted you to replace my hip, what would it cost. He didn't know! This is the problem and why costs are out of whack.

We don't have a functioning market where service providers are listing their costs. The end consumer is not responsible for anything, so there is no incentive to shop for best pricing.

This problem is fixable but it requires simple changes to the market place that make price transparent and injects a level of competition in the market place.

A little over a century ago Teddy Roosevelt went about busting up large corporations that had monopolies. Once again we find ourselves with pharmaceutical companies, telecoms, social media sites and others that are essentially monopolies. We did it before, we must do it again.

a reply to: Edumakated
Wow, I did some searching, and a total knee replacement operation is less than 10 grand (GBP£) in the UK (privately) but closer to 50 grand (US$) in the US. You guys really are screwed over, be it through state funded healthcare or privately funded.

a reply to: lakenheath24

And this is what I've always talked about when it comes to how protective we Brits are about our NHS. You only have to go online and watch a few videos of men and women old enough to be around before the NHS was there, I've heard stories of young people dying before they reached their twenties with things that could've been dealt with EVEN back then but couldn't afford the medicines they needed. America and it's healthcare system (I've been told it's not a system) is a huge problem for the people and the only ones defending it are those who can afford to have the best insurance. I cannot understand how so many Americans can stand there and accept that this is the right way to do it.

Insurance to make sure you stay alive? That has to be some backward thinking surely. I'm glad we have the NHS over here and would do whatever I can to protect it. To Americans who are suffering take a trip to a country that has an NHS like system where you can get the help you need. America is one of the few countries on the planet that I'd love to move and live in (freedoms you guys have are incredibly rare now) but the healthcare system is the one standing in the way.

a reply to: Asktheanimals

Agree totally, yet others on here would say, 'But there are 2 companies selling the same thing'! It isn't a monopoly! Hoooey. It is no different to Shell and Exxon selling gas at the same exact price day to day. Buy up the competitor then stop the competitive product. This isn't coke vs. pepsi though.

I get a free market on soap and tennis shoes, but holding a family hostage between a mortgage payment or death is subhuman.

a reply to: Dwoodward85

Partisanship would kill any reasonable thinking in the US now. Hate rules both sides.....shameful.

I'm type 1, and I just buy the generic Walmart insulin for the first 3/4 of the year til I hit my $3,000 deductible. Then I take the good insulin my doctor recommends for three months and start over with the generic again in January.

It keeps me alive, but my blood sugar is all over the place for nine months of the year, swinging from super low to super high and back constantly. I regularly wake up in the middle of the night with my blood sugar under 40. Later in the day it will be over 400. My doctor tells me it's not sustainable and I'm flirting with a very early death, but I guess you can't make an omelette without breaking a few eggs. At least I don't live in a socialist hell hole.

a reply to: lakenheath24

Patent law must be fixed before this can even begin to be addressed. One of the dirtiest secrets is they create a drug with several uses. Patent only one. When the patent is about to expire, have another use through clinical trials and FDA approved to treat a different condition. Claim prior art. Patent extended.

What really gets me is when a drug finally becomes available as s generic and still costs a ton.

What kind of a society have we made for our children?

a reply to: lakenheath24

These 'Pharmascum' can't claim production costs or other economic reasons, this is pure blackmail and should be treated as such.

The FDA should vet any price rises, retroactively, and the executive and board members of companies who raise or have raised prices unreasonably (say, beyond a 15% markup above production and direct research costs) should receive jail time, commensurate with the markup percentage.

Also, this problem seems to be largely confined to the US. U.S. Drug Prices vs The World - DrugWatch (a legal advocacy site)

originally posted by: Subaeruginosa

originally posted by: lakenheath24
I was talking to a dude at work and he was telling me his Insulin Increased to over $400 a month. He was hot, so I decided to take a peek and Jesus, it's not just insulin....it's everything.

Insulin...$187 per vial.

Couldn't you guys just buy your prescription drugs online from Canada our something?

Our even drive their, seems like it would still turn out cheaper than buying prescription drugs in the US.

Out of curiosity, I just looked up insulin at an online chemist and it says $126AU ($92US) for 5 vials.

Here in New Zealand, I get Humalog Mix, Apidra and Lantus Insulins for an over-the-counter co-payment of $5.00 NZ (that's $5.00 for pens, needles, capsules, test strips, Metformin, Statins, Aspirin and the Insulins. The lot for $5.00) and that is because it is subsidized by Pharmac. And my meter(s) and Glucagon anti-hypo are free (the nurse gives them out).

Why can't the US afford what we on these little islands can? Corruption?

The pharmaceutical industry is out of control and out of touch with what normal people can afford.

Epidiolex is a great example of this. There’s absolutely no reason to make Epidiolex in the first place since Full Spectrum CBD Oil has already been proven effective in studies. And, at $32,500 per year for an extract from a plant that can be grown so cheaply.

The CBD Oil Link I sell and use lasts me about 180 doses per 750mg bottle which works out to about $14 per month or around 200 per year. I use about the same dollar amount of CBD pain balm too. That’s a huge difference in price with this expensive synthetic version.

Below is a quote from and the link to the Epidiolex story.

One of the big questions for the company in recent quarters has been its expected pricing, and the company revealed during the conference call for the first time that Epidiolex will cost $32,500 per year on average, depending upon the weight of the patient and the dosing.

Article

Regulations don't drive drug prices up, they drive them down. In Portugal we opened up the market for generic alternatives, enforcing the generic to be prescribed if there is one available, and our healthcare system negotiates prices directly with big pharma. Big pharma still inovates, profits and everybody is happy.

it's a world wide problem, and as such needs a world wide solution. pharmaceutical companies are nothing more than a blackmail scam as it is right now. "pay up and you live, don't pay, and die. the CHOICE is yours".


i recently had a friend in the Philippines come down with a medical issue. one in which their body starts getting paralyzed a bit at a time, quite possibly leading to their death as their organs such as their heart gets paralyzed. now there is medication available, yet it comes with a price tag of over one million Piso (1,000,000 Piso being just under $20,000US). which even as high as that would be for an American, for a Filipino working as a sales person at just over 13,000 Piso/month would take about 6.5 YEARS of their COMPLETE PAY before taxes to pay for it. now who can afford to pay such a crippling price, even to save their life, except for the very rich? you can not honestly tell me this drug even costs a small fraction of that price to manufacture. this is nothing more than extortion. and what is worse is that the same medication most likely costs even far more in the US and Canada. since pretty much every medication costs far less in the Philippines than in Canada and the US. you can typically buy the exact same name brand medications in the Philippines for under $20, that in the US and Canada cost more than $100.

originally posted by: BiffWellington
At least I don't live in a socialist hell hole.

Yes, I'm glad I'm in the UK and not a socialist hell hole as well. I assume you refer to somewhere like Venezuela?
I'm also glad that nobody in the UK goes bankrupt over medical bills. I can't imagine the inhumanity of people who could defend such a system as found in selfish, capitalist hell holes.

a reply to: CornishCeltGuy
It's a pointless task arguing with some Americans, not all but some who see their version of healthcare as the best, they won't realise how much of an odd thing it is and how the whole insurance thing is clearly a scam (as someone else put it) as long as it isn't them going bankrupt or having to sell everything they own to pay for simple medical care then they won't see it as a bad thing and calling any country that has a government run (but tax paid) system like the NHS as socialist countries, I've had many arguments on other sites where some of these people will flat out refuse to even imagine a system where everyone is treated equally and given access to all medication no matter their income amount.

I, like almost all people are proud of the NHS and have always been shocked that these groups of Americans are proud to be one of the last western nations to do it that way. So yeah I wouldn't bother, again not all Americans, there are some out there (mostly those suffering to either pay the cost of over priced medicines or just about paying) they will listen and understand but others...not so much.

The socialist moniker is just stupid. Those same people would freak if their SOCIAL security was yanked.
The problem here is a lack of regulation leading to too few companies and thus no competition.

The NHS is nice yes...but it has major flaws as well. Chronic underfunding....an ageing population, and lots of foreign medical peeps over here practicing. It can take months or years to get an appointment.


A compromise of the 2 would be nice.

But for now....regulating price increases would be a nice start. A 96000% increase on ANY product is mind numbing.



a reply to: Dwoodward85

originally posted by: SlapMonkey
a reply to: lakenheath24

I wonder--is the patent on these drugs about to expire, and so they are milking the exclusivity of the drug production for all it's worth? Of course, that would be immoral if that's the case. I don't have time to do the research right now, otherwise I would provide the answer instead of asking the question.

No, because they 'continually improve' them, they are keeping it in perpetuity.

Insulin was developed in the 1920s.