Government and Vaccines

I think the benefits of taking most vaccinations outweighs the risk of not taking vaccinations.

But for those that believe in mandating everyone take vaccinations, creating a forced government consumer base......

In China, Vaccine Scandal Infuriates Parents and Tests Government

www.nytimes.com...

Now let the usual suspects say this will never happen in the USA.....

a reply to: neutronflux
The government is only the second force behind vaccinations. The real culprits are the medical profession. They are the ones getting the payola from the drug companies with no thought to their patients health. Good or bad.

a reply to: neutronflux

Right now it's highly unlikely. The current crop of regulators hate big business and assume they are all doing exactly what this company did.

The difference between the US and China is the state is business.

a reply to: ketsuko

Like incompetence of the EPA, and their recent disasters. People that would send business owners to jail in a heartbeat? How are those fines and charges leveled at the EPA going?

originally posted by: neutronflux
I think the benefits of taking most vaccinations outweighs the risk of not taking vaccinations.

This is not meant to be snarky at all, but may come across that way without it being my intention: If you believe that, then you haven't done in-depth research into most vaccinations and the probabilities of major issues of the vaccines versus the actual disease/illness.

Yes, some that have a very high possibility of permanent bad effects, so certainly opt for the vaccines in those instances, but those are few and far between in reality.

Did you catch wind that Australia is also mandating vaccinations and fining people if they don't keep vaccinations up to date?

IMO, a government should never have the authority to tell you what you can and cannot put into your own body as an adult or as a child.

Parents will now lose A$28 (£16) a fortnight from their tax benefits for each child not up to date with their immunisations.

Previously, parents whose children were not up to date with vaccinations would lose an end of year payment to their family tax benefit, worth A$737.

The new fortnightly sanction will see parents lose out on roughly the same amount but is said to serve as a more “constant reminder”. Those earning over A$80 a day will also have further penalties imposed.

Australia to issue monthly fines to parents who don't vaccinate children

Eff that nonsense--this is what you get when you give your government too much control over your daily personal lives--all under the guise of "we're doing it for the public," of course.

edit on 23-7-2018 by SlapMonkey because: I apparently can't not speek good two day

a reply to: SlapMonkey

I don’t have a problem with vaccinations. I have a problem with lobbyist with corporate ties that help push laws regarding that you must consume something or suffer a penalty from a government that is totally incompetent at self policing.

Is it false government is very poor at self policing?

I am sure the billions tied to the vaccine market expanded by forced consumption has very little room for bribes, kickbacks, and payoffs.

You don’t see the inherent problems with such a system?

a reply to: SlapMonkey

At least give a grace period after a new vaccination is developed where it cannot be required by law for at least two years after it passed clinical trials? For example, if a Zika vaccination was released inmass tomorrow.

a reply to: neutronflux

I don't think that you assessed my tone properly--I hate forced vaccinations, and I hate governments who force people to introduce anything into their bodies by force (or stop them from ingesting something by force).

Personally, I do have a problem with many vaccines, but it's not necessarily about the idea of vaccinations itself, but the ingredients that they use and the way that they are forced onto our society through mandates, shaming, and guilt trips.

Vaccinations are a money scheme, IMO, and the "schedules" by which we are supposed to vaccinate our infants and young children do not have their best interests at heart.

a reply to: SlapMonkey

And quote where I said am against vaccinations?

a reply to: neutronflux

You didn't...and I never said that you did.

I think I'm done here--I'm already regretting commenting, because this is going nowhere fast.

a reply to: SlapMonkey

I never said I was against vaccinations?

Sorry If I didn’t communicate very well I was against government mandated vaccinations?

You opened up with

This is not meant to be snarky at all, but may come across that way without it being my intention: If you believe that, then you haven't done in-depth research into most vaccinations and the probabilities of major issues of the vaccines versus the actual disease/illness.

Yes, some that have a very high possibility of permanent bad effects, so certainly opt for the vaccines in those instances, but those are few and far between in reality.

But how would you know if something like the mumps will be mild in one child to the next?

Sorry? But I really don’t have many hesitations with vaccinations with a long track record. I guess the ones that were invited because of serious childhood heath epidemics. Vaccinations against childhood diseases that did end in death or disabilities.

originally posted by: neutronflux

But how would you know if something like the mumps will be mild in one child to the next?

There are more permanent consequences in children caused by the vaccines than are caused by the illness.

Seriously, that's reality. I'd cite sources for you, but I've done it so many times on ATS that I'm just bored with doing it anymore. It's a simple internet search, though, but suffice it to say that I've researched this topic quite extensively. You don't have to believe me if you don't want to.

But to answer your question directly, there's not way to predict anything about the mumps, but you can look at the CDC statistics on the illness and realize that the odds are massively in favor of no lasting effects in the small chance that you might contract mumps.

Best regards.

a reply to: neutronflux

I never had a problem with vaccinations and think that in most cases it's there for the betterment of everyone BUT and here is the big BUT is that I do not think we should be pumping children, sometimes new born babies (within a few weeks/months) with chemicals in one full hit. I never understood why that became a thing. I think they should be single shots and done so over a period of time that gives the childs body a chance to recover and deal with the chemicals and drugs that are being pumped into their bodies.

a reply to: SlapMonkey

You do understand the theory behind vaccinations? Over simplified... Use something less threatening that forces the creation of the antibodies instead of actually getting sick. Basically the same result with less risk and illness. Please cite where it has been shown the mumps vaccination causes more adverse effects than actually getting mumps.

I would say as long as the quality control of the vaccination holds its integerty, it’s safer than many other risks such as eating salad and fruit at a popular restaurant?

I am more worried about vaccinations rushed into production with the “need” lobbied into creation.

I do admit I don’t take the flu vacation. It’s a crapshoot on what you actually need from season to season? And I don’t think the flu vaccinations reduces flu fatalities, unless that has changed? How much of the flu vaccination market is driven by mandatory shots, and hiding there is no proof the flu vaccination reduces mortality rates?

a reply to: Dwoodward85

I agree with you. My child is fine, but I was bewildered at the number of injections they pumped into a 10 pound body? I cannot imagine wanting to drag the horror out month to month, but I would think it would be healthier for just one or two injections every three months?

If it wasn't for the lunacy of the anti-vaccine mentality and because of it, the increase in previously eradicated diseases, there would be no need for mandates.

You've brought it on yourselves.

originally posted by: SlapMonkey

originally posted by: neutronflux

But how would you know if something like the mumps will be mild in one child to the next?

There are more permanent consequences in children caused by the vaccines than are caused by the illness.

Seriously, that's reality. I'd cite sources for you...

Please cite them again.
I must've missed them the 20 years I've had an interest in vaccines.

a reply to: SlapMonkey

That's not entirely correct, the government are only not paying a benefit if kids aren't immunised, there is a family tax benefit paid to families ,I'm not sure but I think it's part A they forfit.

Fines are not imposed and the amount of money lost isn't significant to a working family, it's around $50 a month so 600 a year, I suspect for the families who don't want to immunise that amount Will not sway them.

www.activistpost.com...

…China’s Food and Drug Administration (CFDA) announced it has ordered all production stopped at the vaccine maker and launched an investigation.”

“Changchun Changsheng Biotechnology is China’s second largest maker of the rabies vaccine and a subsidiary of a large publicly-traded vaccine maker.”

“The company said in a stock exchange filing Sunday that it had already halted production of another vaccine — for diphtheria, tetanus and pertussis — which regulators found last year to be sub-standard and which had also become the focus of public attention.” [1]

In south east Asia there were concentrated out breaks of Rabies. They found that the vaccine was worthless.. It was never reported that the vaccine had come from China but I would not be surprised at all.

U.S. and European vaccine makers such as Merck & Co., GlaxoSmithKline plc, and Sanofi Pasteur SA maintain vaccine manufacturing operations in China, that this activity is on the rise, and that Western vaccine makers are also establishing joint venture partnerships with Chinese vaccine companies. [2] [CJF emphasis]

What could go wrong ? I remember when dog food made in china was killing dogs !

The current vaccine scandal is over rabies vaccines for humans! [4]

Even though the U.S. CDC and others claim no Chinese-made vaccines are administered in the USA, if I were a person inclined to receive a vaccine, I’d still ask that all important question, “Is it made in China?”, because we have found in our research you cannot trust the CDC and FDA when it comes to vaccines and the information both put out about vaccines as ‘safe’.

www.businessinsider.com...

China is trying to become a player in the global pharmaceutical space, but a scandal involving shaky vaccines being given to babies as young as three months has caused outrage and doubt.
The case has gone viral in China, where sensitivity over food and drug safety is extremely high after a slew of scandals over the last decade.
According to the China Food and Drug Administration, Changsheng fabricated production records as well as product inspection records, and arbitrarily changed process parameters and equipment, in "serious violations" of the law.

SHANGHAI (Reuters) - A vaccine scandal in China, which has prompted angry reactions from citizens fed up with safety scares, is sending ripples across the local drug market and threatening Chinese ambitions to play a larger role in the global pharmaceutical space.

Shares in Chinese vaccine makers and biotech firms fell across the board on Monday after Premier Li Keqiang slammed Changsheng Biotechnology Co for having crossed a moral red line and called for swift action.

a reply to: 727Sky

this falsifies a common anti vaxxer trope that " vaccines do not work "