Putin Meeting Lifts the Veil?

It's been an interesting week. We've seen Peter Strzok up close and personal, and witnessed the massive movement to stop the hearing by seemingly every Democrat in Congress. We've watched Trump meet with NATO and successfully get agreements from countries to pay their fair share as defined in the treaty. We saw Germany taken to task for energy trade deals with Russia. Our eyes perceived the pomp and circumstance of the meeting with Queen Elizabeth II at Buckingham Castle. We heard Trump make kind remarks about Teresa May while demonstrators in London frantically tried to drive Trump out of England. We discovered that Trump is going to meet with Vladimir Putin on Monday. And Lisa Page began her testimony behind closed doors, a very interesting testimony according to Republicans commenting afterward; it seems the FBI has been intercepting Congressional orders. And of course, we listened as Rod Rosenstein announced 12 more indictments on Russian nationals from the Mueller probe. Lastly, but certainly not leastly, we discovered the name of Trump's replacement for retiring Supreme Court Justice Kennedy. Of course, that led to protests as well as Brett Kavanaugh was demonized for everything from his stance on net neutrality to Roe vs. Wade, by the same people who once complained that stances on specific issues should never be considered.

And precious few of all that is the truth we seek.

As with most politics, the truth is never what is presented to the public. The public sees only what the politicians wish them to see. Timing is everything, as those same politicians attempt to use the news cycle to emphasize certain stories and bury others for emphasis. The truth is always that which the actions of the politicians in these endeavors try to achieve.

So what does all this mean?

It means that Putin is the key... he has been all along.

Top Democrats call on Trump to cancel Putin meeting following Russian indictments (CNN link):

"President Trump should cancel his meeting with Vladimir Putin until Russia takes demonstrable and transparent steps to prove that they won't interfere in future elections. Glad-handing with Vladimir Putin on the heels of these indictments would be an insult to our democracy," Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer said in a statement.

The top Democrat in the House, Rep. Nancy Pelosi of California, tweeted, "@realDonaldTrump must immediately cancel his meeting with Putin."

Pelosi had said in an earlier statement, "The stakes for the upcoming Trump-Putin meeting could not be higher. President Trump must demand and secure a real, concrete and comprehensive agreement that the Russians will cease their ongoing attacks on our democracy. Failure to stand up to Putin would constitute a profound betrayal of the Constitution and our democracy."

That's quite the demand, when one considers it in light of what has happened this week and who caused it to happen. The meeting with NATO was Trump's idea, as is the upcoming meeting with Putin. His reasoning behind the NATO meeting was to get other countries to expand their contributions to ease the load on the US, but he specifically targeted Germany... not just because Merkel wasn't paying her fair share, but also because she was establishing energy trade with Russia. This, according both to Trump and, I would say, common sense, made no sense. Trade with the Russian Bear assists the Russian economy while we are trying to maintain economic sanctions, and allows Russia to build up their military and makes defense against that bear more expensive. Considering all things, Germany's contribution to NATO could actually be seen as negative.

What did the GOP plan? We all know the GOP, unlike in past administrations, has an uneasy relationship with the President. Still, they do appear to be at least attempting to work with him on some issues, at least by word even if by deed leaves something to be desired. The GOP scheduled the hearings with Strzok and Page.

The DNC, in normal collaboration with the MSM, protested the nomination of Kavanaugh, as expected. But their zeal was even greater this time than their previous protest activities... the Women's March was in such a hurry to condemn Kavanaugh that they forgot to replace the "XX" in their statement with his name, showing clearly that the protests were planned out well before anyone was named. Of course, the Mueller probe is the pet project of the DNC, and thus we can safely say the timing of the 12 indictments was planned with the DNC. Finally, the statements above were obviously the DNC's doings.

On that last point, it should be pointed out that the announcement of the indictments specifically stated that no Americans were implicated. As in the last announcement of Russian indictments, I found that interesting. It means that all of the indictments are against individuals who are not within the reach of US law and will likely never actually be prosecuted because they cannot be subpoenaed to appear in court. This same situation happened in the last round of Russian indictments against Russian business interests, and when they did, to everyone's surprise, appear in court to defend their names, Mueller's attorneys did not have charges ready to press. This time, the names are purported to be toward government operatives instead of businessmen, I believe in hopes that they will not show up in court like the Russian businessmen did.

In other words, the indictments are real, but are never intended to be served. They are a distraction and an impetus to the calls to cancel the Russian meeting.

Why?

What do all these seemingly unrelated things have to do with each other?

Putin is the key that ties them all together. The issues with NATO, especially the one concerning Germany, were because of a perceived Russian threat. A major complaint about Kavanaugh is that he does not believe the Constitution allows for the legal jeopardy of a sitting President, meaning he could argue that the Mueller probe into Trump-Russia collusion is moot. Peter Strzok was in charge of both the Clinton e-mail probe (which accused Russia of hacking DNC computers) and the Trump-Russia investigation pre-Mueller. Page was in direct contact with Strzok during the time. The indictments were specifically targeted to Russian nationals. All roads lead to Putin.

Again, why?

At this point, I cross over into pure speculation, but I believe my speculations are well within the realm of reality: I believe the DNC and FBI have been collaborating together, as witnessed by the DNC opposition to any investigations/firings/etc. within the FBI and the questionable actions of the FBI where the DNC hacking was concerned (the computers that were supposedly hacked were never turned over officially to the FBI, yet we have indictments). The recent cornucopia of ties to Russia and the almost rabid concern over the upcoming Russian meeting tells me there is also collusion between the DNC and Russia. The reasonable extension of those two conclusions is that the actual collusion was and is between all three organizations: the DNC, the FBI, and the nation of Russia. I also think there is a reasonable possibility Trump now knows this. If so, the meeting on Monday could expose the FBI/CIA.

TheRedneck

a reply to: TheRedneck

Two things. First, Trump met the Queen at met at Windsor Castle, not Buckingham Castle. The latter does not exist. Second, I strongly suspect that when Mueller finally unleashes what he has on Trump you are going to be horrified. If, that is, this strange spell that Trump has over you can be broken. Frankly if half the things that have been uncovered so far had been linked to Obama you would have burst a lung screaming for him to be impeached as he was obviously a traitor.
But no, instead the insistence that the whole thing is a FBI - DNC plot.
You disappoint me. I thought that you had a brain and were not as partisan as this.

a reply to: AngryCymraeg

Trump met the Queen at met at Windsor Castle, not Buckingham Castle.

Eh, OK, if you say so. I've never been across the pond, so that is not my area of expertise.

They met a big, fancy residence in England where she lives lavishly off of the backs of the rest of the country wearing a crown that doesn't mean anything. How's that?

I strongly suspect that when Mueller finally unleashes what he has on Trump you are going to be horrified.

Perhaps. But I will point out that despite investigations into Trump and this supposed collusion that are rapidly approaching two years now, not one scintilla of evidence has been found implicating Trump. Compare that with Hillary's email investigation, of a much shorter duration, that came to a conclusion of "extremely careless," changed by attorneys within the FBI from "grossly negligent" specifically because otherwise she might have been subject to prosecution. That was part of Strzok's testimony yesterday. Of, compare it to Strzok's complaint of his innocence of bias charges because an investigation of only a few months has not yet turned up any charges against him.

I think a reasonable person can conclude from that comparison that the partisanship here is on your behalf.

As to Obama, I learned quickly to never complain under threat of racism charges. He's gone from office, meaning this guy, who to his eternal shame once voted for the fool, is no longer a racist... live with it.

Now that the obligatory insults are out of the way (and I remind you this is not the Mud Pit; this is ATS), do you have anything more relevant than a geography lesson and insults to contribute?

TheRedneck

Ok 1st off Trump is a compulsive liar, he flapped his gums about about increased NATO spending and gives the impression he raised it. HOrse manure, they are heading towards the 2% goal as agreed before

2nd, he stabbed our PM in the back with his comments about Brexit and trade deals, and also saying Boris would be a good PM!

Then he lied and said the Sun newspaper printed fake news about his recent interview with them , the Sun have audio of his remarks and called his comment fake news

His only suppporters are far right and white online trolls, fake borne again Christians and Putin of course

Yeah Vlad has old wotsit face in the palm of his hand, and is using him to divide America and attempt to split the Eurozone.

How on earth could a patriotic American or patriotic Englishmen support an absolute cretin like Trump who’s a petty thief and wife beater as well

We know any Russian collusion was on behalf of Clinton's Uranium deal ... Her and her cabal came out OK on that deal and are still walking free.

Furthermore was it not her who said,"If Trump wins we all hang"?

It is hard for me to fathom people who will defend known crooks and a political party that thinks Maxine Waters and Pelosi are the best they have and people should listen to their every word.. All the while claiming Trump is the dirty one with nothing to back up their statements except some talking head from CNN or MSN making innuendo by way of a fake news story that only gets retracted if they absolutely have to..

a reply to: AngryCymraeg

Don't think that's partisan at all, it's facts.

I enjoy the look behind the public facade though. Russia looks to be a key piece on the chessboard one way or another.

I really think people should get over this trump/democrat hate...it goes much deeper than one person in office.

The truth fears no investigation. Can we EVER get some transparency about this global geo political war.

a reply to: TheRedneck

They met a big, fancy residence in England where she lives lavishly off of the backs of the rest of the country wearing a crown that doesn't mean anything. How's that?

Sounds about right to me , although I'm not a Monarchist I must say I prefer our head of state to yours though , there's a lot to be said for dignity and respect for the office one holds , she has that in bucket loads , your's not so much.

a reply to: Whereismypassword

Ok 1st off Trump is a compulsive liar, he flapped his gums about about increased NATO spending and gives the impression he raised it. HOrse manure, they are heading towards the 2% goal as agreed before

Actually, Trump stated they discussed unspecific future increases up to 4%, not present increases beyond the 2%. NATO countries are attempting to meet that 2%, which would be an increase from what most pay now. So the lie is yours to own.

As to the rest... again with the rhetoric and lack of actual specifics. Did I hit a nerve? A little too close to the truth? Two angry posts over a statement of events and an interpretation of them would seem to indicate so.

Again, do you have anything actually relevant to add other than the same talking points we have heard for almost two years now?

TheRedneck

a reply to: Whereismypassword

Only compulsive liars are your liberals,the ones that own and control press,no matter how well our president does,the liberals have the media to promote their lies,England/uk/wetf is ruled by a queen how archaeic is that,you pay taxes to support a family thats roots are from Germany,the UN, CIA,FBI all the same,fortunately the American citizens are slowly seeing the truth,the corruption that has taken place,and is taking place,Trump has done everything he has promised,some fool trying to use semantics to prove his point,makes them look even dimmer

a reply to: gortex

Yeah, that was a little harsh on my part; please accept my apologies for being goaded. I do understand there is some sort of national pride in the Monarchy, and I'm actually OK with that. Your country; your customs. As it should be.

I simply don't understand the concept. I have tried, and have had others try to explain it to me. No luck. I don't understand parts of the Catholic religion, either.

I will say I enjoyed watching the pomp and circumstance. Queen Elizabeth does present an air of civility and authority that is not matched in the free world. If you guys over there ever get it so I can do so without fear of being arrested, I'd someday like to see it with my own eyes instead of through a camera lens.

And it is a damn big, damn fancy house.

TheRedneck

a reply to: Oldtimer2

Only compulsive liars are your liberals,the ones that own and control press

Rupert Murdoch ?
I found it unsurprising Trump gave his interview to the Sun , Murdoch has long been a King maker and this time he struck gold , exclusive media mouthpiece for King Donald.

Remind me again , who is running your country ?

a reply to: TheRedneck

This thread has great potential for pop corn eating. Gonna sit back and enjoy this one.

a reply to: gortex

Your drumbeat of hate for the US is getting old. Support for your "royalty" is a colossal joke around the world-we are all fascinated by all the pomp and circumstance while your veterans and citizens suffer from a lack of dcent healthcare and outrageous taxes. I been to Windsor and seen enough of thir castles and royalty in person-not mpressed. Glad we broke away from all that silliness.

Back to the OP. There's really only three Global leaders and they push and play chess with all the rest:
Trump, Xi and Putin.

Thank God big mouth and tweeter Trump is up to the job-we have embarrassed ourselves long enough. The Obamas just about destroyed any respect for the US. Clintons and Bushes cared more about wars and money than American lives.

As much as I dislike Trump, horrible man in many ways-he's scaring the bejeesus out of everyone. I am so proud that he just continues to go all crazy. Let's hope the filthy CIA/FBI and those criminial senators and congressmen and women who start their government lives poor and end up rich get exposed and punished. We needed Trump more than we knew and being a businessman-as opposed to lifetime goverment officiasl-he has done real busness wth Russia so his meeting with Putin is appropriate despite the timely charges aganst the Russians. That's all for show and we dont care because nothing will ever come of those silly indictments. The FBI continues to just embarrass itself.

a reply to: Whereismypassword

His only suppporters are far right and white online trolls, fake borne again Christians and Putin of course

Look at the tolerant left at work again. Not only with a racist statement, but onto a bigoted one about someones religion.
For shame.

You do know there are tons of black Trump supporters right? Probably not, since your leftwing media wont spoodfeed that one. Now, back to your cry closet.

originally posted by: Whereismypassword


His only suppporters are far right and white online trolls, fake borne again Christians and Putin of course

Such hateful bigotry.

Love is the answer, not hate.

Love will #MAGA.

a reply to: Skyfloating

I find it telling that I was able to put together a post that I actually had to cut a little short due to the character limit, full of statements about current events and reasoning that purports to tie them all together, and the best oppositional reply is "Yeah, but I hate Trump!" Any subsequent requests for relevant thoughts from those who reply thusly have gone unanswered.

If anyone had any doubt about the fact that the hateful bigotry exists as you say, I think that should pretty well clear the muddy waters. It certainly does exist, and it doesn't seem to be coming from the GOP at this point in time. If there's a reason why they are getting what appears to be a 'pass,' that is it. In reality, no one is getting a pass; some are just not quite as anxious to draw the ire of those of us desirous of justice.

TheRedneck

originally posted by: Skyfloating

originally posted by: Whereismypassword


His only suppporters are far right and white online trolls, fake borne again Christians and Putin of course

Such hateful bigotry.

Love is the answer, not hate.

Love will #MAGA.

Aside from blatant narcissism, love is sadly not any part of Trump's message.

a reply to: Justso

'Lack of decent healthcare and outrageous taxes'???
You really don't know anything about this country, do you? Take a wild guess at how many people were forced to declare bankruptcy due to medical bills last year in the UK. Go on, guess.

@Thread Topic:

My humble view is that a good relationship with Russia is KEY to a stable world and reasonable levels of peace.

We've been in a "cold war" with these people for 70 years or more, as if there were some Hidden Hand wishing to keep these two superpowers divided.

I agree that the meeting with Putin will lift the Veil on many things that have been happening and perhaps also on the crazed fervor with which Dems + NeoCons have been wanting division from Putin.

originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: Whereismypassword

Ok 1st off Trump is a compulsive liar, he flapped his gums about about increased NATO spending and gives the impression he raised it. HOrse manure, they are heading towards the 2% goal as agreed before

Actually, Trump stated they discussed unspecific future increases up to 4%, not present increases beyond the 2%. NATO countries are attempting to meet that 2%, which would be an increase from what most pay now. So the lie is yours to own.

As to the rest... again with the rhetoric and lack of actual specifics. Did I hit a nerve? A little too close to the truth? Two angry posts over a statement of events and an interpretation of them would seem to indicate so.

Again, do you have anything actually relevant to add other than the same talking points we have heard for almost two years now?

TheRedneck

You have the audacity to call me a liar when you believe what Trump says?

www.theguardian.com...

Here he is backtracking after backstabbing our PM and then saying those comments were lies and fake news by the Sun newspaper


www.thesun.co.uk...

You have not hit a nerve, you have regurgitated Trump propaganda and lies

You also calling me a liar for his wife beating in the past with Ivana?