Obama administration apparently let horrific things happen to immigrant kids.

We definitely need to do a better job of caring for these kids and making sure those charged with their care are beyond the examples posted in this article. However it is fallacious to blame those acts on Obama. he didn't order a worker to hit the kids or whatever the events were.

Is it Trump's fault that some senior citizens get poor care and abuse in nursing homes? Of course not.

originally posted by: network dude
If you can't understand the difference here, just let me know.

Yeah, I'm pretty stupid. You might want to give me a complete rundown so I'm up to speed.

originally posted by: Xcalibur254
As I said in the thread where I brought this report up, this is hardly a problem unique to the Obama administration and it's hardly a problem unique to these facilities. Just look at how prevalent these same issues are in the criminal justice system.

The issue isn't who's in power. It's that those in power won't hold the offending parties responsible.

You're right, the one in power has the means to change things. What is so obvious in all this is the outrage because it can be used against the current president. There are a lot of things that need fixing but with such a bunch of hard headed idiots that get all happy when they can scream at Trump, nothing will get accomplished. It's amazing how so many otherwise intelligent people on ATS can keep the party line going. Please, think! Do what makes sense in your mind as a human being, not as an anti-Trumper.

10,000 of the 12,000 kids they are talking about are UNACCOMPANIED minors

what the f*** are we suppose to do with these kids?

a reply to: toysforadults

Not hire child abusers to watch over them?

originally posted by: theantediluvian
a reply to: network dude

What about the kids in Appalachia? What about Chicago? Why don't you care about Chicago?! You're so un-American, pretending to care about these "invaders" who are "infesting" our country and "turn into MS-13" while you ignore kids in your own country! Amirite?

Why did you highlight 2009 and 2014? To show that the documents were from the Obama admin? What do you think an investigation of documents from 2015-present would show? That Trump, who is NEVER critical of the CBP, has cleaned house?

Or would it show that many of the same bad actors were still in their jobs?

Also, you should be able to appreciate the difference between the actions of a bad actors within an agency and the deliberate, malicious policy changes of the President and top officials in his administration. At the very least, you should realize that in effect, you're argument is that the system is broken and that the policy changes of the Trump admin only put more vulnerable children into that system, making it more likely that more kids would suffer neglect and abuse.


But hey, if you're serious, I honestly believe it would be super appropriate to launch a massive oversight probe of the CBP, fire/prosecute anyone who has neglected or abused children and make changes to protect the vulnerable.

I am firmly against any kids being hurt. Against it to the point of happily going to jail if that needed to be done to stop a kid from being hurt. But I wasn't the one who made this into a big thing. If you will notice, the left is the loud ones here, you and your group are the ones who voiced outrage over the treatment of the kids. It all started with the Obama pictures presented as Trump's fault. And not, instead of moving on, it's time to double down. Well, if this is such a big deal now, why wasn't it back then? Phage knows all about the reporting on this yet he didn't make a thread on it, nor did you. Was it not that big of a deal when it was under Obama's white house?

It's called push back. It happens when you push to hard in one direction. You tend to loose sight of the big picture.

originally posted by: Xcalibur254
a reply to: toysforadults

Not hire child abusers to watch over them?

That's hardly a reasonable or intelligent answer. The problem exists. How can we solve it?

There have been cases where migrant children were turned over to human traffickers because federal agents never bothered to confirm the identity of the "relatives" who showed up to collect them.

Snopes confirms true a case from 2014, where a number of Central American children were given to traffickers who posed as their parents, and then sold them to an Ohio egg farm to work as forced laborers.

Just the other day, Jeff Sessions said they're seeing a big spike in people attempting to cross the border with children who are not their own. If you think about it, this must mean large numbers of children in Central & South America have been abducted or lured away from their homes to be trafficked into the United States.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: network dude

Do you have reason to think that ICE has cleaned up its act under Trump?


But this is what you said:

Now I don't know why CNN or other news outlets didn't bring this up back then

This is an inaccurate statement. Right?

Feel free to show us an example of the nightly media outrage, protests and unhinged insanity that we're seeing now. You're SOOOOO disingenuous.

originally posted by: Thejoncrichton

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: network dude

Do you have reason to think that ICE has cleaned up its act under Trump?


But this is what you said:

Now I don't know why CNN or other news outlets didn't bring this up back then

This is an inaccurate statement. Right?

Feel free to show us an example of the nightly media outrage, protests and unhinged insanity that we're seeing now. You're SOOOOO disingenuous.

seconded

a reply to: LogicalGraphitti

By not hiring child abusers to watch over them and punishing those that do abuse them. The abuse of these children is the topic of this thread. If you don't think punishing the child abusers is a reasonable decision then I don't know know what you consider to be a reasonable solution.

originally posted by: Blue Shift

originally posted by: network dude
If you can't understand the difference here, just let me know.

Yeah, I'm pretty stupid. You might want to give me a complete rundown so I'm up to speed.

Ah, thanks. That helps to understand the posts better.

See, a few weeks ago, a picture of kids sleeping on the floor in cages was shown all over the media. It was falsely claimed that this was Trump's fault. (if you notice, some posters here have claimed that the president can't be responsible for others actions so that in and of itself was wrong), but there was even more to it. The picture was from back when Obama was president. So it was quickly removed and they moved on........

But, instead of moving on, they decided to make a new uproar about kids not being able to go to jail with their parents. Trump was blamed for that, and he asked congress to write better laws so that wouldn't' ever happen again. It loos like congress won't be able to do that, as they (democrats) are kind of against anything Trump wants. So Trump is signing an EO to help those kids be able to go to jail with their parents.

This will last as long as A. Trump is in office, or B. congress changes the current law. When Trump is out of office, if this isn't fixed by Congress, then the next guy or girl, could use this for a political tool again.

Does that help clear this up for you?

originally posted by: toysforadults

originally posted by: Thejoncrichton

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: network dude

Do you have reason to think that ICE has cleaned up its act under Trump?


But this is what you said:

Now I don't know why CNN or other news outlets didn't bring this up back then

This is an inaccurate statement. Right?

Feel free to show us an example of the nightly media outrage, protests and unhinged insanity that we're seeing now. You're SOOOOO disingenuous.

seconded

tertial

originally posted by: Xcalibur254
a reply to: LogicalGraphitti

By not hiring child abusers to watch over them and punishing those that do abuse them. The abuse of these children is the topic of this thread. If you don't think punishing the child abusers is a reasonable decision then I don't know know what you consider to be a reasonable solution.

I am all for a bullet to the skull for anyone who hurts kids. But this happened already. We can go back and find the assholes who need killing, but we also need to protect the kids today. Is it a good thing to not vet the parents, or check who the kid belongs to? (I was under the impression that was why the kids were removed, along with the part where they can't accompany their parents to jail.)

originally posted by: Xcalibur254
a reply to: LogicalGraphitti

By not hiring child abusers to watch over them and punishing those that do abuse them. The abuse of these children is the topic of this thread. If you don't think punishing the child abusers is a reasonable decision then I don't know know what you consider to be a reasonable solution.

I'm all for punishing child abusers but that doesn't answer the question of what to do with the children. Your answer is a typical knee-jerk reaction and taking action without thinking it through. prosecute the criminals, yes. Take care of the children, how?

a reply to: theantediluvian

But hey, if you're serious, I honestly believe it would be super appropriate to launch a massive oversight probe of the CBP, fire/prosecute anyone who has neglected or abused children and make changes to protect the vulnerable.

Yep.

We have to stop assuming that LEO organizations bear no bad fruit.

Conservatives have a habit of ignoring the corruption in law enforcement, while complaining about government corruption in other areas.

Everyone has their cognitive dissonance, but that one is particularly irritating. You can't tell me government is corrupt and we all need guns to defend ourselves from it and ignore the corruption in the LEO community which includes the Border Patrol, which are closest to the people.

If there is abuse let's prosecute it.

I just don't want to see the propaganda BS we've all seen over the last few weeks regarding the situation at the border.

a reply to: Xcalibur254

Your right, they should be sent back with the coyotes back over the border or even better leave them with nearest MS-13 or Nuestra Familia where they will end up anyway.

Might as well cut out all the nonsense in the middle.

originally posted by: network dude
Does that help clear this up for you?

I was hoping for more specifics.

originally posted by: Blue Shift

originally posted by: network dude
Does that help clear this up for you?

I was hoping for more specifics.

Sorry, those are extra. You only bought the basic info package.

Trump did not start this kid problem with immigrant kids, but he now has fixed the problem after it went on for at least nine years. So why are the Democrats complaining about Trump when their own administration was doing it all along? I think Trump thought it was just normal procedure and did not know it should not be that way. Ivanka got to him. She probably told him it should never have been that way. The media has now been backing off of blaming this all on trump, they recently have changed their tone and seem to now be insinuating that the increased enforcement of the laws that have been written long ago are all trump's fault.

Make it easier and more reasonably priced for someone good to just come here, we do not have to allow the bad people in here, anyone illegally crossing the border sneaking in is breaking the law, they are a criminal. Some of these people are just looking for a better life, we should fix the problems with immigration expenses.