A minimum-wage worker needs 2.5 full-time jobs to afford a one-bedroom apartment in most of the US

IQ iirc is the closest at measuring the g factor which correlates with performance at a wide variety of tasks requiring what people would call general intelligence.

Quora answer-

My research (Farmer, Floyd, Reynolds, & Kranzler, 2012) found that IQ and factor analytic estimates of g had a correlation of around .95!

I think the reason why some want to question it is because of the advantages it confers, if it is an accurate measure, as it seems to be and as its predictive ability suggests. As well as the clear differences between groups.

The idea that you put lots of toys a nice school and you will be able to lift everyone out of poverty, is just a fantasy, and that is why IQ is troublesome for some. Why some even claim those with mental retardation can revolutionize physics and earn Nobel prizes with environmental stimuli.

a reply to: Phage

Differentiation is ok.
Integrals are just weird.

Couldn't agree more

originally posted by: CB328

So tell me... what is your answer to the problem?

There are a lot of things that need to be done. First of all, raise the minimum wage to at least $10 an hour. Secondly we need to raise taxes on businesses and the wealthy and use them to bring back more government and union jobs. That would help the American people tremendously. Also we could do infrastructure repair that Trump promised, but put it almost entirely on the states to pay for, so nothing is being done.

So, use other people's money to subsidize those that choose to work McJobs.

LOL

originally posted by: Xenogears
I mean Peterson says, iirc, that something on the order of tens of millions of americans are at or below 85 IQ. He also comments, iirc, the army found no amount of training can make them productive at any position, so it was made illegal to enlist them. Now the army has quite a wide variety of tasks, some not too different from those capitalist society requires.

If we take that to be true, then it is actually costing society more to employ such than not too. These individuals are more likely to breed too, making it so the average iq of the population drops over time, increasing the costs to society, the burden upon the rest of the population over time. Welfare without regulating reproduction is basically a time bomb.

Well, first of all IQ has nothing to do with how smart you are. At best IQ is a measurement of how quickly you can absorb new information.

Second, if there's all these men out there who are too stupid to do any job, then I suppose it's a good thing women entered the work force so they can bring in the family income.

originally posted by: Xenogears
Strange I thought the average was 100~, no? At 70 it is basically retardation.

100 is the average but the first standard deviation which encompasses 68.2% of scores is 15 points in either direction. So just over 2/3 of people fall between 85 and 115, or 1/3 of people fall between 85 and 100.

a reply to: Xtrozero

The problem here is that since there's not a concrete definition of intelligence, there's also not a way to measure it. You can't measure what's undefined. That means the number placed on it has very little significance.

originally posted by: Lumenari

originally posted by: CB328
You really don't need any more proof of the failing of capitalism than this. At a time when corporations and CEO's are raking in gigantic profits, the people actually doing the hardest and worst jobs can't even afford an apartment. We hear a lot of proganda on here about how capitalism provides for people so well and creates so much prosperity. The truth is it creates prosperity for those at the top by destroying and enslaving those at the bottom. How is this any different than communism? It's just slavery with lipstick.

A minimum-wage worker needs 2.5 full-time jobs to afford a one-bedroom apartment in most of the US

www.yahoo.com...

So tell me... what is your answer to the problem?

no problem

smart ambitious people make more than less educated , less motivated persons

originally posted by: Xenogears
I think the reason why some want to question it is because of the advantages it confers, if it is an accurate measure, as it seems to be and as its predictive ability suggests. As well as the clear differences between groups.

The idea that you put lots of toys a nice school and you will be able to lift everyone out of poverty, is just a fantasy, and that is why IQ is troublesome for some. Why some even claim those with mental retardation can revolutionize physics and earn Nobel prizes with environmental stimuli.

Yet, out of those who graduate high school, even those who graduate at the bottom of their class know more than the college educated did 300 years ago.

I'm not sure if it's been mentioned, but soon enough, there won't be any minimum wage jobs due to automation. A huge elephant in the room that no one seems to have the answer to, is what do we do with millions of people who have no skills or education once service jobs are gone?

originally posted by: DobRozner
I'm not sure if it's been mentioned, but soon enough, there won't be any minimum wage jobs due to automation. A huge elephant in the room that no one seems to have the answer to, is what do we do with millions of people who have no skills or education once service jobs are gone?

That's a bit down the road imo, but.. that is a problem, mostly because the U.S. is terrible about education. Our colleges are a joke, and many other countries work much harder to train their citizens, so they can compete in a global market.

And I can only shake my head at those with snobbish, utter lack of empathy attitudes. Seriously.. the fix is nothing? Because you consider them unskilled laborers, it doesn't matter what they get paid? Great attitude towards fellow citizens in this supposedly great country.

It's shameful that the richest nation in the history of mankind has fallen so low. We are the poster boy for democracy and capitalism, and all America has proven is that it does not work. That is not to say American has been an abject failure, but we are failing worse at an ever rapid rate. And the problem, of course, is money. Money does not make you happy, but it sure can be used to oppress and to buy political favor. It would make more sense if those who are accumulating most of the wealth were good stewards of society or of the Earth, but they are neither. The wealth certainly does not bring them greater security. Ironically, it is creating less security for them, for eventually we will reach a tipping point and heads will roll. It's been that way throughout history, and history has a habit of repeating itself.

a reply to: tabularosa

The fact that we have the richest people in history in the US is indictive of a system thats not balanced

If we had a system that was balanced and fair tge gap between the bottom and the top would be limited due to competitive market forces

originally posted by: CB328
It's not just minimum wage jobs. I work in IT as a contractor at a big company but only make $18 an hour because it's Texas, and I can't get another job because I'm not a minority. In the Seattle area houses cost $700,000 dollars now.

America is a criminal enterprise led by a crime family.

I'm not sure if anyone else asked you this, because it's an awful lot of thread to read through, however having worked in IT I figure I'm qualified to ask a few questions.

Do you have any certifications? Do you hold a degree? If so which? Also blaming minorities for your inability to attain a better job in the IT field is complete and utter BS. I've known a ton of IT contractors in my career, and you know why the majority of them end up on the dead-end side of things is a complete and total lack of ambition. My gut says you're a generalist, with minimal credentialing, who has an IT position that most likely could be replaced by RPA.

As for the Seattle thing, why does it matter what a house costs in Seattle if you're in Texas? Are you looking to move to Seattle for the job market? In that case, don't buy a house in the dang city, commute. Or better yet find a position that allows you to work remotely so it doesn't matter where you live.

I made $10 an hour working a help desk right as 2008 hit, complete hiring freeze at my company. I saw a buddy of mine with an A+ book one day and thought to myself "you know what, he's got the right idea on this", so by the time they let all of us go (department was sold and I didn't want to relocate), I had A+, Net+, Sec+, and my MCP for Windows 7. I went from that $10 an hour help desk to a $21 an hour MSP, where they bumped me up to $26 an hour after finishing my MCSA. Around 5.5 years after leaving that MSP I am now making just over $87 an hour. I have 17 certifications now, all but one paid for myself out of pocket, a BS, an MS, and working on an MBA also paid out of pocket.

In closing, you making $18 an hour is your choice and no one else's. We're in a talent shortage in IT and Information Security, due to a lack of qualified applicants in a field that breeds mediocrity I.E. generalists.

Around 5.5 years after leaving that MSP I am now making just over $87 an hour.

Are you a consultant? That's a lot of money for any IT security job (or any IT job in general). That is CISO or IT security director for a large company.

a reply to: fleabit

I am a consultant actually, however when I wasn't consulting I was reasonably close to what I am making now. I just happen to be in a very niche area of infosec, which is OT security. The talent pool is considerably smaller than general IT security or even some of the other specializations, the group that I'm in at my firm has 9 people total and 5 of us that are involved in actual execution and not BD or something along those lines.

originally posted by: Aazadan

originally posted by: Xenogears
I mean Peterson says, iirc, that something on the order of tens of millions of americans are at or below 85 IQ. He also comments, iirc, the army found no amount of training can make them productive at any position, so it was made illegal to enlist them. Now the army has quite a wide variety of tasks, some not too different from those capitalist society requires.

If we take that to be true, then it is actually costing society more to employ such than not too. These individuals are more likely to breed too, making it so the average iq of the population drops over time, increasing the costs to society, the burden upon the rest of the population over time. Welfare without regulating reproduction is basically a time bomb.

Well, first of all IQ has nothing to do with how smart you are. At best IQ is a measurement of how quickly you can absorb new information.

Second, if there's all these men out there who are too stupid to do any job, then I suppose it's a good thing women entered the work force so they can bring in the family income.

It's not just men but women too that fall into that low level of intelligence.

And IQ does indicate intelligence or g factor, the closest measure of general intelligence that predicts level of success at a wide and diverse variety of intellectually demanding tasks. A below 70 IQ, and you're mentally retarded, handicapped and need external care.

Those multiple intelligence hypothetical measures, are no more predictive than IQ, they are just sugar coating trying to distort the cold crude reality.

a reply to: Xenogears

If that's the case and the 34.1% of people who are between 85 and 100 IQ are incapable of caring for themselves in todays world, then that makes a pretty convincing case for either UBI or a significantly increased minimum wage.

Unemployment roles and food stamp roles are the lowest ever and you are complaining about capitalism? What you need is a reality check. Most people working minimum wage are just entering the job market and have homes available with their parents or other relatives.

However out in flyover country we have a shortage of unskilled laborers and even fruit pickers. Those entry level jobs can make $12 an hour and higher level animal breeders and heavy equipment operators easily clear $70K an hour.

You are daft if you think that an ordinary person with even a smidgen of initiative would stay at the minimum wage level.

If we all believed as you do Venezuela would be the norm throughout the world. Socialism = misery and always has.

originally posted by: Metallicus
So don’t work a minimum wage job. My wife only works part time and that is for health insurance. The check is a bonus. My daughter is in college and works part time and earns $16 an hour. Getting a decent job isn’t hard.

Wow, where do you live. Illinois is nothing like that.

originally posted by: Aazadan
a reply to: Xenogears

If that's the case and the 34.1% of people who are between 85 and 100 IQ are incapable of caring for themselves in todays world, then that makes a pretty convincing case for either UBI or a significantly increased minimum wage.

I said below 70 is mental retardation.

The actual number regards lack of productivity seems to be at or below 83, I misremembered that one. The thing about those at or below 83 is that it is unproductive to have them in the military and probably in employment too. According to Peterson I think it's like 10% of the pop. iirc, or tens of millions.

But if it's true that they're a burden to an enterprise, it is best to provide for them a UBI, or assign them even lower skill tasks with adequate income.