24 hour race

The famous 24h race at the Nürburgring ring is on. The most brutal and longest race track on earth. 26km, 87 curves. It´s known for it´s material murdering characteristics and difficulty. As the name already gives away, the durance is 24h nonstop racing. To accomplish this, you need at least three drivers working in shifts. The toll on man and machine is brutal and stress levels are high.

Here is the international, english commented stream.


I can attest to it´s difficulty having done a few rounds on this track on sundays in the past. If you don´t know what you´re doing you´ll be off-track heading for the rails in no time.

Here are some examples of what can go wrong, and also some very lucky drivers:


There is a reason we call it "green hell".

a reply to: verschickter

My only experience of the Nürburgring ring is in a sim rig but yeah it is long and devilish and requires total concentration to not end up in the barriers , never tried it at night so hats off to those brave enough to do so , in real life , with the threat of imminent injury around every corner.

Adding to that if you´re doing the "tourist-drives" on sundays, you might end up in the rails unexpected because of parts, coolant fluid or even oil on the track. For some example, goto 7:43 in the second video, you´ll see how they all crash because there is oil on the ideal line.

You might save your car, until the one behind you crashes into you, as seen with the BMW and Porsche. This is why my first round is always 80km/h max to get the track conditions until I floor it.

a reply to: verschickter

The most brutal and longest race track on earth.

Longest circuit track, not longest race track, just of the top my head the Ilse of Man race is about 37 km so 12-15 km longer than the Nurburgring.


But most Brutal is something I think all drivers that have driven many tracks world wide would agree on.

I can attest to it´s difficulty having done a few rounds on this track on sundays in the past. If you don´t know what you´re doing you´ll be off-track heading for the rails in no time.

I am soooo jealous.

a reply to: InhaleExhale

Longest circuit track, not longest race track, just of the top my head the Ilse of Man race is about 37 km so 12-15 km longer than the Nurburgring.

I get what you want to say but I don´t consider a normal street a race track. True, the greatest part of the Nürburgring is handled like a normal road but it´s not a road in the sense that you use like on the Ilse of Man race.

But yes, I think you must have balls of steel to do the Isle of Man. I think both are somewhat equal but have their differences. Isle of Man is much more dangerous in the sense of pushing each other to the limit, the death count makes that evident.

I am soooo jealous.

You don´t have to. If you ever happen to be in Germany and if you want to do a few rounds (on the passenger seat) on the Nürburgring:

Be my guest.
I´m not someone who needs to impress others by driving as fast as I can, pushing myself to the limit with passengers on board. You´ll also required to wear a helmet, I´ll organize the rest (adult diapers and neck protector).

Endurance racing is awesome. There are only a few places in the world they go 24 hours; Nurburgring, LeMans, Daytona... maybe someplace in Asia like Dubai. A few races are 12 hours, like Sebring and Petit Lemans in Georgia and surely in Europe too.

Having multiple classes of cars running simultaneous adds a lot to the competition. The Prototype cars are amazing beyond belief, coming from major mfgs and smaller independent constructors. The GT cars are relate able being BMW, Porsche, MB, Corvettes, Audi, Cadillac, et al.

If you have an opportunity to watch a standard length IMSA race, I highly suggest it. It's one of the instances where viewing in person adds a great deal, although watching on TV has advantages too.

I kind of hate sports, but can leave WEC/IMSA or BTTC Touring cars playing background on TV all day. It's high-functioning, by comparison.

www.imsa.com/

www.imsa.com...

The thing about the 'Ring, it's open to the public, and had been around a long time.





People keep making the same mistake, when they run wide they try to yank it back onto the road instead of just slowing down and running it out.

a reply to: FlyingFox

People keep making the same mistake, when they run wide they try to yank it back onto the road instead of just slowing down and running it out.

With all respect, your advice is horrible and may work in a very narrow range of circumstances. There is no room to run out and no way to slow down in time on gras. What you wrote can be done on wide F1 tracks (there is a ex-F1 track incorporated into the whole track) but not in green hell. Most amateurs just do what you say and they crash their car in no time, even more if they have rear wheel drive.

If they follow your advice, they will traverse the road and crash into the rail (if there is one) on the opposite of the road.

If your rear breaks out because you swiffeled to wide, what you normaly do is floor the gas so you tires are working against the sideways-drifting force, effectively putting load on the front tires from behind, so you can even it out again with the steering wheel.

It´s not that easy by far. It depends on your suspension setup and where you # up. 4x4, AWD, FWD, RWD. There are little dents and hills in the road, sometimes the obvious ideal line isn´t the best way to go.

The road has some paint on the surface in some parts, if wet it´s slippery, same goes for the white lines on each side. If you hit them at the exit of a curve and there is gras behind, you´re in trouble.

Example:

At the end of "fuchsröhre" where you´re going 210km/h+, right at the perfect brake point there is a little wave in the road. If you forgot to disable ABS(if you have it), you´ll find yourself in the woods doing those speeds. ABS will reduce your braking power because it detected a standing wheel and you´ll fly off eyes-wide-open because you can´t break hard enough anymore.

With all respect, your advice is horrible and in no way a universal solution what to do when you swiffel too wide.



Go to 1:30. Sound on.
BMW, RWD, rear breaks out. If he had done what you wrote he would be on heading for the rails on the right side. Instead, he floored it.

2:40
BMW, RWD, rear breaks out. He slams the brakes, turns and heads for the rails.

I´ll see if I can find a good example.

I see people hitting the grass, locking the brakes and yanking the wheel back towards the pavement.

....but my advice is "horrible"?

a reply to: FlyingFox

Yes in the sense of that you make it appear lifting the gas and rolling out is the solution.

Obviously, the recovery method they are employing is not working very well.

Yanking the wheel to get back on the tarmac verses running out into the rough and slowing down....hmm, which is better?

I'm not sure what the conceptual barrier is here, but you managed to kill the thread.

Congrats, you win.

originally posted by: FlyingFox
Obviously, the recovery method they are employing is not working very well.

I never commented on the whole video I gave you timestamps to look it up.

Yanking the wheel to get back on the tarmac verses running out into the rough and slowing down....hmm, which is better?

Yeah but this is the Nürburgring, this thread is about this track, there isn´t much "rough" to slow you down, the rail will do that for you here.

I'm not sure what the conceptual barrier is here, but you managed to kill the thread.

Congrats, you win.

All I was saying is that your advice is not the ultimate thing to do to save your ass out there. That´s why I called it horrible. Those who go on tracks know this already.

Those who don´t, as in, someone who never pushed their car to the limits, will have horrible accidents if they follow your advice as "THE THING" to do when they realize they missed the anchor point.

Also, I´ll kill my own thread for god sake if it means that something very dangerous needs to be pointed out. Any day. Lifes are more precious than some thread on the internet.

That being said, you never even commented on the different drive-trains and how they each react different, in different situations.

So the last thing I have to say to you is that you´re very ignorant to those facts above and you should definitly not give advices like the one above in the way you did.

At least you could recognize that. I did not "win", quite the contrary, you managed to obfuscate what my message was and now you´re childishly retreat.

I hope for godsake no one ever uses your advice as the ultimate solution, if they die while doing it, you´re partly at fault, too. On the other hand, no one should listen to armchair instructors on the internet.

THAT´s the reason I argue with you, SAFETY, not trying to "WIN".

a reply to: verschickter

(there is a ex-F1 track incorporated into the whole track) but not in green hell.

Originally the F1 race was on the mountain ring 20km track, not sure exactly when (50s maybe 60s) but before the extra circuit was added and later used as the F1 Germany track it was held on the Ring.

Yeah but this is the Nürburgring, this thread is about this track, there isn´t much "rough" to slow you down, the rail will do that for you here.

One of the very few race tracks where a driver has to learn the coarse because even the best drivers can be caught in a position the cannot control while hammering around the ring.

Other race tracks you can take a car out, any car take it out to the track and after a corner or 2 to work out the handling of the car most tracks you can a lot of fun.

The Nurburgring is whole other story, like I say even for professional drivers, the angles, the dips in the road, the high speed turns on slight descents and ascents leaving very little to no room depending on speeds for any error.

Great track to test ones driving ability and ability to change driving style because of the complexity of the coarse.

a reply to: InhaleExhale

I think it was after Nicky Lauda´s fire crash that they built the F1 track that we know today (with slight changes). The track is not used anymore for F1, though.

Yes there are some fine details to this track. If I go full throttle in fuchsröhre it´s hard to brake (or better say, lift the foot from the gas pedal over to the brake) because of the G´s you´re pulling.

I go heal-toe most of the time so I´m not used to brake with the left foot. Another thing is the weather, you will most probably have parts of the track wet, fog banks, sun shine in one round depending on the daytime.

a reply to: verschickter

I think it was after Nicky Lauda´s fire crash that they built the F1 track that we know today (with slight changes). The track is not used anymore for F1, though.

Yeah, coincidentally he wanted that race abandoned but the drivers voted to race.

I loved the movie they made about Lauda's rivalry with James Hunt.

Its looks like there is a chance for the F1 race to go back there next year.

www.motorsport.com...

Yes there are some fine details to this track. If I go full throttle in fuchsröhre it´s hard to brake (or better say, lift the foot from the gas pedal over to the brake) because of the G´s you´re pulling.

you must have a had a few times where time slowed down for you,

meaning when your about lose control because you are pushing the car quite hard you are so focused on the situation at hand that times seems to slow enough for you react and get you out of the possible upcoming crash.


Take care

a reply to: InhaleExhale

you must have a had a few times where time slowed down for you,

I guess it happened (without me realizing) but it´s really the G force in that section that prevents you from lifting your foot from the gas, it´s like the devils won´t let you slow down.

The most thing I fear when I do sunday´s "tourist"-drives are the other drivers who don´t know how to behave on the track and cut you or think they can overtake before the next curve and then realize they are way to fast and mess it up.

you are so focused on the situation at hand that times seems to slow enough for you react and get you out of the possible upcoming crash.

If you react when you "feel" something in your "ass-meter" it´s too late. Once the front wheels lifted while going over the hill on "Flugplatz".

Another angle


This is how you approach on Flugplatz, but this crash was oil related:


It´s not my crash and I did not flip but it was enough to loose control. Suspension decompressed too hard, lost downforce on the front wheels and I was basically driving on my back wheels, when the front wheels came back to the ground I then saw the rails and crashed.

Hence the name "Flugplatz" because you
a) can´t see what´s behind the corner, you basically drive into the sky.
b) you´re going to lift if too fast and suspension decides to give you a hard time.

Take care

Thanks