The trade war get interesting. China hits back.. hard..

a reply to: Pandaram

The tariffs are designed to hurt industries based in areas that voted for Trump: agriculture, coal, and steel producing regions. The bottom line is that consumer prices will be climbing, potentially leading to a new round of "stagflation."

To add some details -

The tariffs China put in place are meaningless and stupid.

A casual look at the list of tariffed items reveals many that are multi-sourced from many countries not single sourced from the US.

Such as -

Strawberries - Thailand is a major source
Various Wines - European wine sells better in China for the last 10 years, some are available under FTAs from Australia, South Africa, and South American countries.
Coconut products - laughable! Easily available from Chinese sources, Thailand and southeast Asia!
Various kinds of nuts - Same as wines
Mango - Same as coconut

This "retaliation" involved none of the important things China needs from the USA like -

Soy
Corn
Technology

And to add as I've said in the past and you armchair strategists who haven't lived in China or follow goings on closely READ IT and THINK before you reply -

This will hurt China far more than the US. Factories here run on 30 to 60 days of cash liquidity at most. Most US companies pay Net 30 Days from delivery of goods and will try to stretch that to 60 days + routinely. It takes on average 17 days and the fastest trip can be made in 11 days. Think about that for a minute and really let it sink in. Those factories are not being paid for manufacturing time + shipping time (17 days avg) + other travel time + Net 30 days payment. Now factor cash liquidity which on average is 30 to 60 days... Chinese factories will run out of money faster than the US would capitulate in a protracted trade war.

What will the CCP do when up to 20% of their economy stops because they cannot pay the factory workers? It's not hard to figure out.

Let's take the other option - a company like Wal Mart who probably does pay some factories in advance. Those factories will get cash, pay workers and ship. However Wal Mart now has to pay an import tariff which forces the cost up, price up and they sell less. Therefore they will cut orders which means less cash in advance for the factory which means - layoffs.

It's a no win game for China. The tariffs are meaningless on China's part and they know it. This is why there are reports that economic negotiators are working behind the scenes talking to Trump's people. These tariffs were to save the face of the CCP and keep toxic nationalism an option by the government.

originally posted by: Jay-morris

originally posted by: Metallicus
a reply to: Pandaram

China can't win a trade war.

They need us as customers more than we need their Chinese junk. We already deal with a ridiculous number of unfair trade practices and never retaliated. This is just the U.S. trying to level the playing field.

Bottom line is China is screwed without us buying their crap.

You talk like it is only the American people who are buying thing "junk" How many businesses in America rely on buying stock from China? What do you think would happen if that trade stopped? A lot of business would go out of business. Basically, there would be a depression I imagine.

This is why it amazes when people say do not buy plastic junk ftom china. Stop buying stuff from China, watch the American companies fall one by one, or watch prices go up on everything.

They are only importers.

Middlemen

originally posted by: burgerbuddy

originally posted by: Jay-morris

originally posted by: Metallicus
a reply to: Pandaram

China can't win a trade war.

They need us as customers more than we need their Chinese junk. We already deal with a ridiculous number of unfair trade practices and never retaliated. This is just the U.S. trying to level the playing field.

Bottom line is China is screwed without us buying their crap.

You talk like it is only the American people who are buying thing "junk" How many businesses in America rely on buying stock from China? What do you think would happen if that trade stopped? A lot of business would go out of business. Basically, there would be a depression I imagine.

This is why it amazes when people say do not buy plastic junk ftom china. Stop buying stuff from China, watch the American companies fall one by one, or watch prices go up on everything.

They are only importers.

Middlemen

And how much do you think companies save? Why are all major companies buying their stock from China? If thst changed, prices would rocket, companies would fall.

originally posted by: Wardaddy454
a reply to: Jay-morris

Reads being the key word, no I haven't.

Though, going to Hong Kong is like going to Cancun, and saying all of Mexico is nice.

True.

originally posted by: Jay-morris

originally posted by: burgerbuddy

originally posted by: Jay-morris

originally posted by: Metallicus
a reply to: Pandaram

China can't win a trade war.

They need us as customers more than we need their Chinese junk. We already deal with a ridiculous number of unfair trade practices and never retaliated. This is just the U.S. trying to level the playing field.

Bottom line is China is screwed without us buying their crap.

You talk like it is only the American people who are buying thing "junk" How many businesses in America rely on buying stock from China? What do you think would happen if that trade stopped? A lot of business would go out of business. Basically, there would be a depression I imagine.

This is why it amazes when people say do not buy plastic junk ftom china. Stop buying stuff from China, watch the American companies fall one by one, or watch prices go up on everything.

They are only importers.

Middlemen

And how much do you think companies save? Why are all major companies buying their stock from China? If thst changed, prices would rocket, companies would fall.

Someone will pick up the slack and make the stuff in the states.


Not like it’s rocket science.

a reply to: SpartanStoic

Yes, the whole point is that they can get the embargoed items elsewhere.

originally posted by: burgerbuddy

originally posted by: Jay-morris

originally posted by: burgerbuddy

originally posted by: Jay-morris

originally posted by: Metallicus
a reply to: Pandaram

China can't win a trade war.

They need us as customers more than we need their Chinese junk. We already deal with a ridiculous number of unfair trade practices and never retaliated. This is just the U.S. trying to level the playing field.

Bottom line is China is screwed without us buying their crap.

You talk like it is only the American people who are buying thing "junk" How many businesses in America rely on buying stock from China? What do you think would happen if that trade stopped? A lot of business would go out of business. Basically, there would be a depression I imagine.

This is why it amazes when people say do not buy plastic junk ftom china. Stop buying stuff from China, watch the American companies fall one by one, or watch prices go up on everything.

They are only importers.

Middlemen

And how much do you think companies save? Why are all major companies buying their stock from China? If thst changed, prices would rocket, companies would fall.

Someone will pick up the slack and make the stuff in the states.


Not like it’s rocket science.

And can you see american workers working for the same rate of pay lol Off course Not! Hence the prices of products will sky rocket.

originally posted by: burgerbuddy

originally posted by: Wardaddy454
a reply to: Jay-morris

Reads being the key word, no I haven't.

Though, going to Hong Kong is like going to Cancun, and saying all of Mexico is nice.

True.

How is is true when he has never been to China? Hong Kong is very different to mainland China in many ways. Great place, but different. I like mainland better.

originally posted by: Sillyolme
a reply to: Wardaddy454

Got a crystal ball do you? Or you're just being optimistic.

History my dear.

originally posted by: Jay-morris

originally posted by: Wardaddy454

originally posted by: Jay-morris

originally posted by: Wardaddy454

originally posted by: Jay-morris

originally posted by: Wardaddy454

originally posted by: Jay-morris

originally posted by: Wardaddy454

originally posted by: Jay-morris

originally posted by: Wardaddy454

originally posted by: purplemer

originally posted by: RickyD
a reply to: purplemer

They have such toxic agriculture they have to buy up land and companies in other countries just to produce something edible. The place is a polluted cesspool. Its so bad in Beijing they put in a massive LED wall to play video of sun rise and sun set cause you can't see it through the smog most days. Have you seen the waters there???

Yes and they are actually doing something about it. Infact a lot more than the USA. But go back to your propaganda if it makes you happy.

So they claim.

Can we see a source that isn't sourced from the state run propaganda machine?

No you just have to go and see for yourself. China is not perfect, but I loved living there. Everything I needed, and they are making strides in many areas.

Then why did you leave?

Because my wife wanted to set up her own business in the UK, so we came back. That is the only reason why, but I still go back every year or so.

So if you only read, then No, you do not know what it is like.

If it was so good, then why couldn't she have run the business from China?

Because she wanted to set up a Chinese miao silver jewllery business, hence the reason we went back to the UK.

Also, if you love a place, does that mean you have to stay in that one place all your life? That is a bit silly, don't you think?

I mean, a website and shipping seems pretty easy, without having to move, and you can stay where you love.

Seems like there is more to the story than you're willing to share just to make your point, which is fine, of course.

Also, many people live for different things. Most try to end up where they would love to be and make it work.

LOL you do not really know much about business do you. My wife sells her stuff online. She has customers in America and Europe. She would not have had the customers if she was posting out of china!

There is nothing more to it than that. Does your mind refuse to believe that a western person could live happily in China?

The first thing that struck me when i first went to Beijing, was the amount of westerners living there. But of course, armchair readers will not know this. I bet a lot of people think china is like north korea lol lol

Oh, so you're saying that being in China would have hindered her business? Why is that?

Also, with the lack of free speech and the surveillance state etc, it doesn't seem like the greatest place. But what does this "armchair reader" know. I'll just refer to your anecdotes as to why China is so great, despite leaving to run a business...Maybe it isn't so great.

Seriously!?

I mean really! Seriously!?

I have told you the reasons why ( which you have ignored) it is like your mind cannot comprehend that someone can like something or some place you do not like.

How ignorant and aragont is that?

So you think I am hiding some dark twisted secret to why i left China? All because i left china with my wife, who is chinese, so she could start a business.

Seriously! lol

Seriously? You said the only reason you left China was so your wife could start a business. You also said that if you had stayed in China, you wouldn't have had American And European Customers, did you not? I don't think its a secret as to why you left China. Its right there. If China was so great for your intentions, you wouldn't have left, correct?


Are you too ignorant or arrogant to understand?

The US should do what they do for starting a biz there.

You need a local to have 51% of the biz to operate.

That would make everyone think twice,

Chinese love their pork.

They freaked when ginger almost doubled in price a few years ago.

Can’t remember exactly why.

I asked my wife and she said she remembers it was salt. Lol

She doesn’t cook so.....

Anyway, the people will be pissed at Beijing not the US if prices go up.

It won’t be like the oil embargo.

originally posted by: Wardaddy454

originally posted by: Jay-morris

originally posted by: Wardaddy454

originally posted by: Jay-morris

originally posted by: Wardaddy454

originally posted by: Jay-morris

originally posted by: Wardaddy454

originally posted by: Jay-morris

originally posted by: Wardaddy454

originally posted by: Jay-morris

originally posted by: Wardaddy454

originally posted by: purplemer

originally posted by: RickyD
a reply to: purplemer

They have such toxic agriculture they have to buy up land and companies in other countries just to produce something edible. The place is a polluted cesspool. Its so bad in Beijing they put in a massive LED wall to play video of sun rise and sun set cause you can't see it through the smog most days. Have you seen the waters there???

Yes and they are actually doing something about it. Infact a lot more than the USA. But go back to your propaganda if it makes you happy.

So they claim.

Can we see a source that isn't sourced from the state run propaganda machine?

No you just have to go and see for yourself. China is not perfect, but I loved living there. Everything I needed, and they are making strides in many areas.

Then why did you leave?

Because my wife wanted to set up her own business in the UK, so we came back. That is the only reason why, but I still go back every year or so.

So if you only read, then No, you do not know what it is like.

If it was so good, then why couldn't she have run the business from China?

Because she wanted to set up a Chinese miao silver jewllery business, hence the reason we went back to the UK.

Also, if you love a place, does that mean you have to stay in that one place all your life? That is a bit silly, don't you think?

I mean, a website and shipping seems pretty easy, without having to move, and you can stay where you love.

Seems like there is more to the story than you're willing to share just to make your point, which is fine, of course.

Also, many people live for different things. Most try to end up where they would love to be and make it work.

LOL you do not really know much about business do you. My wife sells her stuff online. She has customers in America and Europe. She would not have had the customers if she was posting out of china!

There is nothing more to it than that. Does your mind refuse to believe that a western person could live happily in China?

The first thing that struck me when i first went to Beijing, was the amount of westerners living there. But of course, armchair readers will not know this. I bet a lot of people think china is like north korea lol lol

Oh, so you're saying that being in China would have hindered her business? Why is that?

Also, with the lack of free speech and the surveillance state etc, it doesn't seem like the greatest place. But what does this "armchair reader" know. I'll just refer to your anecdotes as to why China is so great, despite leaving to run a business...Maybe it isn't so great.

Seriously!?

I mean really! Seriously!?

I have told you the reasons why ( which you have ignored) it is like your mind cannot comprehend that someone can like something or some place you do not like.

How ignorant and aragont is that?

So you think I am hiding some dark twisted secret to why i left China? All because i left china with my wife, who is chinese, so she could start a business.

Seriously! lol

Seriously? You said the only reason you left China was so your wife could start a business. You also said that if you had stayed in China, you wouldn't have had American And European Customers, did you not? I don't think its a secret as to why you left China. Its right there. If China was so great for your intentions, you wouldn't have left, correct?


Are you too ignorant or arrogant to understand?

LOL Are you the only one who does not understand this!? Ok, let me break it down for you one more time!

My wife wanted to buy and sell jewellery online. This would be through eBay and etsy. And it is no secret that customers buying single items are very dubious about buying from Asia, not just china. With the amount of fakes coming out of China, that is understanble.

So, we decided to go back to the UK and set up the business, which is doing quite well, and no way would she have had the same sales if customers knew they were buy, let's say, a single ring from China.

What part of this do you not understand. I guess your brain cannot get round the fact that I loved living in China. I loved living in Spain too, and Germany.

Should I have stayed in these places I loved all at the same time?? lol

It is called loving to travel and learn about new places and cultures. You should try it some time!

originally posted by: UKTruth
There's a simple fact that no country can escape - the US wins a trade war against ANY country and ANY combination of countries.
The golden goose for consumption is the USA. Full stop.

The goose was being led to slaughter...
The US can win a trade war Now but not the way things were going..
Out sourcing and off shoring everything had to stop. No economy can sustain that. EVER.

china thank you for playing along just how it was planned, now we can expand interstate trade of these products between states to revive domestic industries to create new jobs and boost state economies.

i'm quite sure the goal of trump is to get reactionary responses like this to drive up the cost of imports so domestic industries can have a resurgence, the end goal is to refocus our economy on interstate trade to increase employment, boost state economies and cut foreign dependence. maybe i'm wrong but i honestly think that is his goal.

a reply to: purplemer

Just clarifying a couple things,

In my understanding - china is the largest economy not on size but based on Purchasing Power Parity; or, in other words - even though it is much smaller and the average citizen makes a lot less, the cost of goods in China is so inexpensive, it balances out,

So, if a gallon of milk represents the cost of goods, and a gallon of milk costs 25cent in country A and a dollar in country B - If I live in country A and make 50% of what someone in country B makes, I can buy twice the “stuff” in country A, so to have a “bigger” economy based on PPP country A only needs to afford 26% of what country B needs to afford.

Problems with this is - country A is more dependent on the cost of goods than country B, also if country A has a population of 2 billion and county B has a population of 300 million, country A needs to grow at a rate of 400-600% faster than country B, or people start getting less and less money.

16,000,000 people born in China 2010
4,000,000 in America

I think

a reply to: Pandaram

all it will do is cause price of pork imported to china from us to shoot up but guess what chinese love pork and american farmers are the going to keep selling to them ones being hurt will be person on the street in china going to buy pork for meal it will cost more.

a reply to: Sillyolme

will not mean jack squat here in north carolina except maybe cheaper prices on pork but thats only if tariffs cause china to consume less which i don't see happening what will happen is the price of pork shipped to china to go up 30 percent with chinese consumers footing bill for tariff .

a reply to: Arnie123

wow you buy organic me too i just know better to pay a lot of extra on stuff because someone slapped a sticker on my stuff saying its organic. tariffs on food itemsis only going to hurt chinese consumers because they produce no where near enough food for their population. it is why they trying to buy up as much arable land abroad and why you see chinese fishing and canning ships off north carolina coast.

a reply to: fatkid

Totally correct.

And those pork imports aren't that big of a deal...yet. Chinese love their pork but right now it is easily available from other sources unless that changes.