If You Want to Use Australia and England as Gun Control Examples, Please Read This First

Here is the link to the article if you want to read it whole:
mises.org...

The main take away: Australia had such a low mass murder rate prior to the NFA, it does not provide a meaningful statistical analysis for the US mass murder problem. England, unfortunately, provides the same invisible correlation.

A few interesting points:

- Demographically, Australia/England and the US are quite different. As this is more a socio-economic issue, the two are not both apples.
www.indexmundi.com...

- Was NFA ever fully implemented? By most metrics, the answer is No.
www.huffingtonpost.com.au...

- Australia's official homicide rate was in decline well before NFA. Trying to weed out the strength of correlation between the two is difficult this way. Although one could argue the US's homicide rate is in decline too.
crimestats.aic.gov.au...

- England's first modern gun control law was enacted in 1920. Their homicide rate had been in decline prior to this also. Some historians argue the law was put in place more to counter the perceived threats from the Irish and Communists. Increasingly restrictive laws were put in place in 1937, 1968, and 1988 yet from 1950 to the early 2000's, the homicide rate increased.
mises.org...
crimeresearch.org...

If there was a clear picture demonstrating causality or even a moderately strong correlation between decreasing gun numbers and decreasing mass murders, I would gladly entertain proposals in the US. Unfortunately, with these two countries a strong case does not exist.

a reply to: ABNARTY

So USA are better at murdering than Australia and UK?

originally posted by: weirdguy
a reply to: ABNARTY

So USA are better at murdering than Australia and UK?

USA is #1!

as Naughty By Nature said in their song Ghetto "Illegitimate kid"(use the bad word for this)

If you ain't ever been to the ghetto
Don't ever come to the ghetto
'cause you ain't understand the ghetto

You know the areas where the mass shootings happen every weekend. The areas that make the news, for a hot minute, but where the white liberals never go.

a reply to: ABNARTY

It is OK

The UK and Australia got sick of being a nice peaceful "low drama" nations and decided to import poverty and crime. It will take a few decades to match us.... of course by then we will be in even more dire straights.

www.theaustralian.com.au... 4b8

The murder rate has jumped by almost 30 per cent in the past year in Victoria, where a violent crime wave continues to worsen and incidences of robbery, carjacking and assault are on the rise.

The state’s overall crime rate rose by 4 per cent in the year to April to 543,391 offences in figures compiled by the Crime Statistics Agency.

Violent crimes including murder recorded a 28 per cent jump to 69 deaths, while the CSA recorded almost 3000 cases of ­aggravated robbery and steep rises in the crime rates in some ­regional areas, including Ararat, the ­Latrobe region and Greater Shepparton.

www.theguardian.com...

The latest crime figures for the 12 months to March also show an 18% rise in violent crime, including a 20% surge in gun and knife crime.

Part me just wants to give these idiots what they wish...
Until the critical thinking part of me realizes that turning America into a "gun free zone" essentially turning us all into fish in a barrel.

There are vast differences between all 3 cultures, in Australia we are carefree with plenty of open spaces and a sparse population. Now with the influx of filth from Countries that have violent people flooding here to get onto our welfare system things are rapidly changing. We are seeing a massive spike in violent crime and nearly always they are of foreign decent from Countries like Somalia and Sudan or Lebanon.

The time is rapidly approaching when the white tax paying base that has built and grown this country will become the minority and when that day comes you will see something more akin to the USA when it comes to murder rates.

originally posted by: infolurker
a reply to: ABNARTY

It is OK

The UK and Australia got sick of being a nice peaceful "low drama" nations and decided to import poverty and crime. It will take a few decades to match us.... of course by then we will be in even moredire straights.

www.theaustralian.com.au... 4b8

The murder rate has jumped by almost 30 per cent in the past year in Victoria, where a violent crime wave continues to worsen and incidences of robbery, carjacking and assault are on the rise.

The state’s overall crime rate rose by 4 per cent in the year to April to 543,391 offences in figures compiled by the Crime Statistics Agency.

Violent crimes including murder recorded a 28 per cent jump to 69 deaths, while the CSA recorded almost 3000 cases of ­aggravated robbery and steep rises in the crime rates in some ­regional areas, including Ararat, the ­Latrobe region and Greater Shepparton.

www.theguardian.com...

The latest crime figures for the 12 months to March also show an 18% rise in violent crime, including a 20% surge in gun and knife crime.

I see what u did there, gotta put more men to work.

originally posted by: JAY1980
Part me just wants to give these idiots what they wish...
Until the critical thinking part of me realizes that turning America into a "gun free zone" essentially turning us all into fish in a barrel.

Well that's because no one wants to take over America.

We have no enemies anywhere.

What could go wrong?

"I smell sheep"



lol.

a reply to: burgerbuddy

That is a great movie, and I think it describes the lefts logic on gun control perfectly.

a reply to: ABNARTY

Port Arthur was an inside job!

With that out of the way the gun control laws definitely saved lives.
It's impossible to say it has stopped "mass murders" but I'm sure at least there would be less suicides.
When electric ovens came in the suicide rate dropped.

If you're only concerned about mass murders then you are probably right.
If you're concerned about lives overall then you have no argument.

Gun control does save lives.

But banning cars, banning cigarettes and making shower mats mandatory saves lives also.

a reply to: mazzroth
uite
I live in New Zealand preaty quite place mind you now the aussise have brought a law out that deports any crimes back to there own country it should liven up a bit it should allso empty the bucket of your crim somalie ect personally i think this is a great law that england and us need badly

i think population density is the greatest factor with crime in general, in most low crime rate nations you see two patterns, either they have super low populations with little need for mass transportation or high populations with highly developed transportation.

honestly this is why i think gun control is excessive and pointless, because the easier transportation is the wider the range of law enforcement becomes and denser populations means more police to recruit for more areas, the only way gun violence will go down is if either america creates larger police forces or america depopulates smaller towns and concentrates our people into large cities with more developed transportation systems(the second one seems to be happening naturally due to online shopping challenging the need for the existence of shopping centers, department stores and malls which are practically nonexistent.)

gun control is just a reflection of increased support for more centralized power for the state due to greater dependence on authorities to maintain a more urban lifestyle seen in larger cities, it's not actually necessary from a practical standpoint because closer communities generally keep themselves regulated and aren't as focused on safety as long as movement is easy and they don't get trapped in one area like you see in ghettos, being confined makes pack animals violent, restless or depressed or all three and humans are pack animals. simple logic and i think people are making things more complicated than it needs to be with all these statistics and polls.

Lies, damned lies and statistics.

Peel away all the dross and you get to this.

The homicide rate of the US without guns is in the range of the murder rate in the UK and Australia, who don't have a gun crime problem.

It's also cultural. There are one and a half million legal guns in the UK, but people don't feel the need to take their guns to the pub, while this (simplistic example) is culturally acceptable in the US. It's a right.

originally posted by: infolurker
a reply to: ABNARTY

It is OK

The UK and Australia got sick of being a nice peaceful "low drama" nations and decided to import poverty and crime. It will take a few decades to match us.... of course by then we will be in even more dire straights.

www.theaustralian.com.au... 4b8

The murder rate has jumped by almost 30 per cent in the past year in Victoria, where a violent crime wave continues to worsen and incidences of robbery, carjacking and assault are on the rise.

The state’s overall crime rate rose by 4 per cent in the year to April to 543,391 offences in figures compiled by the Crime Statistics Agency.

Violent crimes including murder recorded a 28 per cent jump to 69 deaths, while the CSA recorded almost 3000 cases of ­aggravated robbery and steep rises in the crime rates in some ­regional areas, including Ararat, the ­Latrobe region and Greater Shepparton.

www.theguardian.com...

The latest crime figures for the 12 months to March also show an 18% rise in violent crime, including a 20% surge in gun and knife crime.

I would definitely not rely on these slimy arseholes to tell the truth, they were far too crooked to even tell us about the bank bail in law their mates in the govt passed a few weeks ago. This clearly demonstrates how little spine they have for the truth.

No doubt their figures are very selectively chosen, misleading and uninformed. Perhaps even deliberatly so.

originally posted by: Azureblue

originally posted by: infolurker
a reply to: ABNARTY

It is OK

The UK and Australia got sick of being a nice peaceful "low drama" nations and decided to import poverty and crime. It will take a few decades to match us.... of course by then we will be in even more dire straights.

www.theaustralian.com.au... 4b8

The murder rate has jumped by almost 30 per cent in the past year in Victoria, where a violent crime wave continues to worsen and incidences of robbery, carjacking and assault are on the rise.

The state’s overall crime rate rose by 4 per cent in the year to April to 543,391 offences in figures compiled by the Crime Statistics Agency.

Violent crimes including murder recorded a 28 per cent jump to 69 deaths, while the CSA recorded almost 3000 cases of ­aggravated robbery and steep rises in the crime rates in some ­regional areas, including Ararat, the ­Latrobe region and Greater Shepparton.

www.theguardian.com...

The latest crime figures for the 12 months to March also show an 18% rise in violent crime, including a 20% surge in gun and knife crime.

I would definitely not rely on these slimy arseholes to tell the truth, they were far too crooked to even tell us about the bank bail in law their mates in the govt passed a few weeks ago. This clearly demonstrates how little spine they have for the truth.

No doubt their figures are very selectively chosen, misleading and uninformed. Perhaps even deliberatly so.

No say it isn't so, our elected leaders are champions of truth integrity and honesty.

a reply to: paraphi

"Don't take your guns to town son
Leave your guns at home Bill
Don't take your guns to town"

a reply to: Krahzeef_Ukhar

If you're only concerned about mass murders then you are probably right. If you're concerned about lives overall then you have no argument.

It's not my argument. It's the argument of of the state agencies who tracks these things in Australia and England. If you are willing to take the position of "one life saved is enough" then your statement has merit.

However is that one life, while tragic, statistically significant to alter the freedoms of the citizens of those countries? If so, then what do we need to curtail next? There are many things which harm people in far greater numbers as you mentioned.

a reply to: namehere

There is a lot in the post. Do I have this correct?

- Less densely populated areas regulate themselves better and therefore have lower crime.

- Gun control is a function of increased state authority versus public safety.

- Urban lifestyle requires more state support.

- Forgive me but I am still foggy on the transportation aspect.

I agree densely populated areas (cities) require huge state input and lots of external support. If you like living in a city (or simply end up there) then you tacitly agree to greater state control and a more fragile support system. Gun control would fit right in with this mindset.

I live in a rural area and do witness a greater degree of self regulation. Everybody knows everybody and you can't get away with anything. You can rob somebody but by lunch the whole county will know what you did and be on the look out for you. Is this a significant deterrent to crime? I don't know. Anecdotally, I would say it might be harder to do harm to people you see everyday versus complete strangers who have no meaning to your life.

a reply to: JAY1980

I know the feels. Some days it might be worth it just to shut them up. But then I have to live with a pseudo solution which solved nothing.