Trump proposes returning to the gold standard.

originally posted by: nwtrucker

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: nwtrucker

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: nwtrucker
a reply to: Krazysh0t

??? The debt is still there. The amount owed is still there. The value of each has been changed. Nothing else...except perhaps the possibility of hyper-inflation.

The only thing that changes is the ability to manipulate, print or otherwise mess with it. At the least, it minimizes it.

You should do the math. It really kills your theory.

They've estimated that we've only mined about 187,200 tonnes of the stuff at about $40.2 million per tonne. So 187,200 * $40.2 million = $7.5 trillion. A number that you'll notice doesn't even cover half the current American debt. If we switched to the gold standard, you can bet that quite a few people would lose quite a bit of their wealth and have a high chance of going bankrupt. I imagine it would also crash our economy worse than even the 1930's as the country's monetary supply would shrink DRASTICALLY.

These, "switch to the gold standard" arguments never analyze the nuance of such a thing. Hell, just do some math and you'll see why this idea is impractical. If we want to improve our monetary supply, we should work on NEW monetary systems, not revert to proven failed systems.

OK. I've stepped into a quagmire here. Now I'm totally, utterly confused. I'm missing some basic in all this and I need help from anyone that can explain it on a '101 level'.

Since when is the gold standard a 'failed system'?? How? Why?

How did Iceland cancel all the citizens' debt to banks and that nation is still functioning?

HELP!!

Gold standard has consistently failed whenever economies get into serious difficulties.

Icekland did not cancel all its citizens debt. Its a complete urban myth.

Ok. So we're not on a gold standard now and this system is near failure, as well. I don't see the distinction.

Iceland? Ok. Let that one go.

The 2008 crash was a bigger financial shock than the start of the Great Depression.

The ability of governments to increase the monetary base and offer unrestricted guarantees prevented it becoming anything like as bad (although governments should have done more and differently but that's a different argument).

originally posted by: SlapMonkey
a reply to: neo96

You mean the money supply that has no real value?

There's more than enough gold to cover that...

Bingo.

We'd have to phase out USD and introduce a new gold-backed currency. There would be an exchange rate between them. The rich, of course, could afford to buy up all of the gold backed currency and laugh all day as the current currency inflated out of control- which of course would make it easy for them to get much, much richer.

There's no clean way to do it- but the current system won't keep working forever. It's designed around the idea if infinite growth- infinite population growth, industry growth, even mining growth. We're already far past the point of sustainable human population on this rock, and that too will self correct- at which point the infinite growth of money is going into an ever-shrinking number of pockets- everyone will have more money, but it will be worth less and less. It's an unsustainable currency. Stupid stuff doesn't even burn well enough to use as heat, IF you're lucky enough to have any of it in print. Most of it is in the computer. Literally not worth the storage its saved on.

Perhaps people would be less confused if we started referring to this new hypothetical currency as USG instead of 'dollars' ?

originally posted by: eNumbra
What happened to the last president who wanted to return to the Gold standard...

I didn't go through the entire thread, JFK executive order was for Silver backing.

The silver certificate dollars.

Executive Order 11110 was issued by U.S. President John F. Kennedy on June 4, 1963. This executive order amended Executive Order 10289 (dated September 17, 1951)[1] by delegating to the Secretary of the Treasury the president's authority to issue silver certificates under the Thomas Amendment of the Agricultural Adjustment Act, as amended by the Gold Reserve Act. The order allowed the Secretary to issue silver certificates, if any were needed, during the transition period under President Kennedy's plan to eliminate Silver Certificates and use Federal Reserve Notes.

wiki

Bolding my own.

The plan was to get us off the Feds teet... or more accurately, to get them off our ours.

originally posted by: Irishhaf

originally posted by: eNumbra
What happened to the last president who wanted to return to the Gold standard...

I didn't go through the entire thread, JFK executive order was for Silver backing.

The silver certificate dollars.

Yeah, I had a mix up.

Trump proposes returning to the gold standard.

Never happen and Trump knows it. Typical transparent pandering to the far right isolationist. Trump proposes BS all the time that will never happen but it keeps his base happy, pissing on their leg and telling them it's raining.


It will be the Chinese that adopt the gold standard. Hide and watch....

a reply to: eNumbra


I had the same thought, I remembered the general executive order but had to double check.

I'm sure this will happen right after he locks Hillary up and blows the lid off the JFK conspiracy.

originally posted by: neo96
There is not enough gold to back the current money supply.

It will not work.

The Gold Standard is never coming back.

Of coarse there is enough Gold.
An ounce would be worth millions though.

Your right though probably not going to happen.

originally posted by: lordcomac

The plan was to get us off the Feds teet... or more accurately, to get them off our ours.

It says right in your source 'and use Federal Reserve Notes'. He was not anti-Federal Reserve as some on this site claim, as a matter of fact he gave them more control by eliminating silver certificates so the precious metal could be used for manufacturing purposes.

a reply to: nwtrucker

Remember: He who has the gold, makes the rules. I am pretty sure the gold we used to have is overseas- and therefore our money's value will be in the hands of someone else.

I can't understand for the life of me why so many of you think the gold standard would be good. I don't think you all realize that when the US Dollar was backed by gold, global powerbrokers and politicians literally set the price for gold. It had a global price cap of a little more than $20 for 100 years and then Congress changed the price in 1934's "Gold Reserve Act" to a measly $35 an ounce. That literally meant that one ounce of gold was only officially worth 35 US Dollars to the government and that's all you'd get for it.

And here's something else about that act of Congress and gold in the US at that time (here's the link):

The Gold Reserve Act of 1934 is an act that took away title to all gold and gold certificates that were held by the Federal Reserve Bank. The Gold Reserve Act of 1934 made the trade and possession of gold a criminal offense for the citizens of the United States. Sole title of this gold was given to the U.S. Treasury. It was not until 1975 that Americans could again own or trade gold.

Then, the infamous 1944 Bretton Woods agreement set that "one ounce for every 35 USD" globally (yes, the same one that saw the US take over the UK's role as the West's powerhouse). The US then started accepting other country's gold in exchange for US Dollars at that exchange rate ("price"), which then could be traded back to US companies in exchange for goods and services. Yeah, that's the gold reserve you all keep claiming you want to return to. They confiscated the gold titles in banks and then outlawed citizen ownership of gold, all while maintaining & enforcing a ridiculously low price cap for gold.

Yes, for several decades, the US govt had stopped allowing normal citizens to officially own gold and to exchange US Dollars for gold. Only large institutional investors and large international organizations could exchange their gold for USD from the US govt (and vice versa). In other words, for normal citizens, the USD was no different that it is right now: a fiat currency. In fact, we apparently weren't legally allowed to trade/sell gold again until 4 years after the gold standard was ended.

Also, the US had to get rid of the gold standard because those large institutions began consistently screwing the US over with financial schemes. The basic ideas were:

1. When the official price for the US govt was 35 USD per ounce but the price somewhere else was lower than that, institutions would exchange their gold w/the govt for US Dollars. Then they'd immediately purchase cheaper gold on the market, making an easy profit. So they'd hypothetically trade 100 ounces of gold for 3,500 Dollars to the govt at $35/oz price. Then they'd use those 3,500 Dollars to buy 112 ounces at the hypothetically lower market price of $31/oz. Then they'd trade those 112 ounces of gold to the US govt for 3,920 Dollars at the $35/oz price, and then immediately buy 126 ounces on the market, and keep repeating. Now imagine the effect if you multiply those numbers by hundreds.

2. Institutions would also do the opposite, and this is the one that seemingly collapsed the gold standard. If the price somewhere else was higher than the US's official price, those institutions would do the exact opposite pattern (buy it from the US at 35 USD/oz and then immediately resell it at the higher price elsewhere). From my understanding, this pretty much caused a run on "our" gold reserves and is the real reason the Fed Reserve allegedly has no real gold left in its vaults. The US govt even officially raised its price to 38 USD per ounce in order to reverse the outward flow of gold, but that obviously failed.

I used small price differences like 31 Dollars for an ounce when compared to the official prices of 35 Dollars and then 38 Dollars for an ounce. But if you want to get a better idea of just how dramatic the numbers and demand were, look at the global prices for gold at the time. Then the dramatic price fluctuations of gold right after our govt stopped allowing institutional investors to trade gold for US Dollars (this part is what people often refer to as "when the US ended the gold standard"). Here's a link to see those gold prices (HERE).

a reply to: enlightenedservant


But muh JFK.

He wants to take everyone back to the past, might as well bring back clubbing women over the head and dragging them back to your cave too! Trump reads too many conspiracy theories and thinks he can change everything for the better by making it the way it used to be. Who is advising this guy, Archie bunker?

originally posted by: conspiracy nut
...might as well bring back clubbing women over the head and dragging them back to your cave too!

Nope. You just grab them by the handy-dandy built in reproductive orifice.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

As you can see, citizens were already off of the gold standard for decades before JFK became president.

Trump is just throwing it out there he knows the US can't go on to gold standard. He said this during his presidential campaign.

“In some ways, I like the gold standard and there is something very nice about it but you have to go back at the right time… We used to have a very solid country because it was based on a gold standard for it.

We do not have that anymore. There is something very nice about the concept of that. It would be very hard to do at this point and one of the problems is we do not have the gold. Other places have the gold.“

originally posted by: enlightenedservant
As you can see, citizens were already off of the gold standard for decades before JFK became president.

But he was gonna fix that!

Of course that would have been between banging Monroe, Sam Giancana's goumada and any other bim that wandered into his general path.

Time for a Banker Purge.

originally posted by: neo96
There is not enough gold to back the current money supply.

It will not work.

The Gold Standard is never coming back.

We need to use the SILVER standard then or Diamonds or Wheat. Something other than debt.