A quantum mirage in a pool of oil

This is an interesting article that came out in December, 2017.
It revisits the pilot wave interpretation of Quantum Mechanics using drops of silicon oil in a silicon oil pool.

cosmosmagazine.com...

From the article

"In 2005, French physicist Yves Couder and colleagues built a model pilot wave system in the lab. They discovered that if they took a shallow bath of silicon oil and shook it up and down at the right speed, they could add another droplet of oil to the surface and it would “walk” along it. When the droplet hits the surface of the bath, it bounces off, creating ripples. The ripples mean that the droplet, when it lands again, encounters a slightly tilted surface that pushes it off in one direction or another. In this way, the droplet moves over the surface of the oil, creating a “pilot wave” that directs its own future motion.

While the motion of the droplet appears chaotic in the short term, over time complex patterns appear that correspond to the probability densities that are the currency of quantum theory. This set-up has since been used to demonstrate analogues of quantum behaviour including the double-slit experiment, the orbits of electrons in atoms, and tunnelling through seemingly impenetrable barriers."

So they are removing the need for probability densities. The particles do in fact have exact positions and velocities but appear not to because of the pilot wave effect in the pool of silicon oil.

Even more exciting is they demonstrated analogues to the double-slit experiment, electron orbits in atoms, and electron tunnelling.

Now they don't claim this can replace the current mathematical formalism of Quantum Mechanics but it's pretty intriguing stuff to think about.



Mod Note: Please review this information on the proper posting of work written by others. Thanks.

This story keeps popping up from time to time. Hum? Pay to play?

MIT (2012) - The pilot-wave dynamics of walking droplets

Warning: No audio!

I saw this last year about this time. What they are showing is a bouncing droplet over a vibrating bath. Then they cut out the up-down motion using a strobe. The oil droplet then appears to hover and move around. When traced out several interesting patterns emerge.

de Broglie. That is the second time in two days that I have typed that name! Universe dropping hints?? She does have a sense of humor!

a reply to: TEOTWAWKIAIFF

Nice post.

Dropping hints

With drops?

You must be more clever than you are even aware of.

a reply to: TEOTWAWKIAIFF

Has this particular article been posted? I could not find it using search.
What do you mean by pay to play in this context?

a reply to: Archivalist


A pun for free! It was not intentional.

de Broglie had this different idea on how the universe works over quantum mechanics. The long and short of it is all particles interact with all other particles across the universe. One "wave" depends on the interactions with ALL the other "waves" out there. Distance does not matter. If you think about it real hard, if you could devise a method to "hide" your wave from all the other interactions... including gravity (what ever "wave" that is that is interacting with all the other waves), then you might find something wonderful. Known as "gravitational shielding" or a "Mach shield" that is one explanation of how a UFO would appear to be using "anti-gravity" to float around.

My pun was that I mentioned the name now in describing "anti-gravity" and why it was not really "anti-gravity" a couple times and here is another, seemingly random topic pops up, and I use it again. As if universe is trying to tell me something!

Good read on Bohm, de Broglie, Bohemian mechanics, and pilot-wave theory at QuantaMagazine.org:

New Support for Alternative Quantum View.



a reply to: Deluxe

When an article pops up over time with nearly the same wording then you might think that somebody could be paying to have the "news" be pushed if it did not garnish the attention they thought it deserved.

Since this goes back to 2005, 2011, 2012, then 2017, it appears somebody wants this story "picked up" real bad. Paying money to keep it around is one method. I was wondering out loud why this story keeps popping up. That's all.

originally posted by: Deluxe
This is an interesting article that came out in December, 2017.
It revisits the pilot wave interpretation of Quantum Mechanics using drops of silicon oil in a silicon oil pool.

cosmosmagazine.com...

From the article

"In 2005, French physicist Yves Couder and colleagues built a model pilot wave system in the lab. They discovered that if they took a shallow bath of silicon oil and shook it up and down at the right speed, they could add another droplet of oil to the surface and it would “walk” along it. When the droplet hits the surface of the bath, it bounces off, creating ripples. The ripples mean that the droplet, when it lands again, encounters a slightly tilted surface that pushes it off in one direction or another. In this way, the droplet moves over the surface of the oil, creating a “pilot wave” that directs its own future motion.

While the motion of the droplet appears chaotic in the short term, over time complex patterns appear that correspond to the probability densities that are the currency of quantum theory. This set-up has since been used to demonstrate analogues of quantum behaviour including the double-slit experiment, the orbits of electrons in atoms, and tunnelling through seemingly impenetrable barriers."

So they are removing the need for probability densities. The particles do in fact have exact positions and velocities but appear not to because of the pilot wave effect in the pool of silicon oil.

Even more exciting is they demonstrated analogues to the double-slit experiment, electron orbits in atoms, and electron tunnelling.

Now they don't claim this can replace the current mathematical formalism of Quantum Mechanics but it's pretty intriguing stuff to think about.


IMHO this is how the Universe works....it all began akin to a single drop of water falling on a static surface......and WE are riding a Pilot Wave.

originally posted by: TEOTWAWKIAIFF
This story keeps popping up from time to time. Hum? Pay to play?

MIT (2012) - The pilot-wave dynamics of walking droplets

Yes this was a popular subject back in 2012, when that video and several others were made.

People don't understand how something can have both wave-like and particle-like properties at the same time which is at the heart of quantum mechanics. While the silicone drops aren't exhibiting actual quantum phenomena, they might help give us some insight into how quantum phenomena might not be as counter-intuitive as one might first expect because we can visually see how something can exhibit both wave-like and particle-like properties. This video DOES have audio and explains in some depth.



We still don't know the correct interpretation of quantum mechanics, whether Copenhagen interpretation, or DeBroglie-Pilot-Wave (an idea somewhat illustrated by this demonstration), or something else.

a reply to: Arbitrageur

Thanks for posting the fantastic video.
It is nice to see classical analogues to quantum mechanics even though that might not be what is really happening in the quantum realm.

If this pilot theory were true would Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle still be valid?

And of course there is always the question of what the actual waves are made of.

originally posted by: Deluxe
a reply to: Arbitrageur

Thanks for posting the fantastic video.

You're welcome.

It is nice to see classical analogues to quantum mechanics even though that might not be what is really happening in the quantum realm.

Exactly!

If this pilot theory were true would Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle still be valid?

Yes, all observational evidence is consistent with the Pilot wave and the Copenhagen interpretation and some other interpretations. If not those would have been ruled out.

And of course there is always the question of what the actual waves are made of.

As shown in the video, from the wave function we can extract a probability density of where we expect to observe the particle after it passes through the double slit and strikes the screen. Beyond that probability density, it seems a little fuzzy what it actually is as you said.

This video gives some insights that in the case of the wave function of a "hydrogen-like" one-electron atom, it could be related to geometry as seen with the Chladni pattern demonstration. The double slit probability density could be said to be based on the geometry of the double slit, depending on things like the width and spacing of the slits.

Chladni Figures and One-Electron Atoms


www.youtube.com...

After showing how a double-minimum potential generates one-dimensional bonding, Professor McBride moves on to multi-dimensional wave functions. Solving Schrödinger's three-dimensional differential equation might have been daunting, but it was not, because the necessary formulas had been worked out more than a century earlier in connection with acoustics. Acoustical "Chladni" figures show how nodal patterns relate to frequencies. The analogy is pursued by studying the form of wave functions for "hydrogen-like" one-electron atoms. Removing normalizing constants from the formulas for familiar orbitals reveals the underlying simplicity of their shapes.

It's a long video but it contains some fascinating insights.

a reply to: Arbitrageur

What amazes me is according to the wikipedia entry for pilot wave the Schrödinger equation can be derived using the pilot wave theory.

Schrödinger guessed his equation. To see it actually derived is pretty amazing.

Is it possible that both the Copenhagen model and Pilot Wave have merit? Maybe QM, for the most part is deterministic (but not entirely), and there is a pilot wave in action. Perhaps, as opposed to PW theory, the particle is actually a standing wave that acts as it's own pilot wave. If we think about super-cooling atoms to a Bose-Einstein state, doesn't that suggest that all matter is really just a symphony of permeating standing waves?

Particles detect waves. Waves made the particles. Particles don't exist. They are just magnetic knots clapping into their selves

The water doesn't create the wave. The wave is already there before the water.

Science likes to walk around the fact that we are a powered simulation. Pilot wave? Probability field? Voice of God? The model that all technology is based on seems most likely: pulse code modulation.

a reply to: AdKiller

Particles are magnetic knots clapping into their selves?
Can you provide some background on that.

As for the Simulation Hypothesis that is another topic. We aren't discussing that here.

a reply to: TEOTWAWKIAIFF

Most people usually dismiss Macro world observations for quantum behavior believing in different dynamics.
Its still an interesting historical journey.
Pilot waves and "Gespensterfelder", ghost fields probably have their roots in mathematical symmetry, of course the same can be said about Goethe's "flowers on the beach" but you can't build because its too abstract.
Geoffrey Dixon's 1970's Octonion theory that dates back to John Graves in 1843, worth exploring or just coincidence?

originally posted by: Deluxe
a reply to: AdKiller

Particles are magnetic knots clapping into their selves?
Can you provide some background on that.

As for the Simulation Hypothesis that is another topic. We aren't discussing that here.

He has none... its one of those over-hyped, over used but little understood or detailed "I know everything and everything is just energy man... because string theory/god" kinda thing.

Late to this show

a reply to: Arbitrageur


Stop the presses!

There has been a couple developments that have been posted on the arXiv. One by Niels Bohr's grandson, Tomas, and a fluid dynamicist from MIT who tried to recreate the oil droplet version of the Double-slit experiment (matter behaving like a particle and wave, the heart of QM). Result: All effects neutralized, all attempts to get wave interference patterns failed. In fact, the oil droplets would travel straight through the slit!

Big write up at quantamagazine.org, 11 October, 2018 - Famous Experiment Dooms Alternative to Quantum Weirdness.

A better and more informative title would have been: Double-slit Experiment with Bouncing Oil Droplets Dooms de Broglie's Pilot Wave Theory.

Good explanation on QM, double-slit experiment, and the issues people have with QM when it was being formulated. Too many good things said to take out a quote!