Has anyone asked Teachers what they want?

a reply to: JAGStorm
Nah, hardcore, but A.I. controlled micro drones waiting in charger in ceiling, maybe light fixtures, for the sound of gun shots or an alert from the office to take out the perp. Just have to make sure that people know they give up due process doing things like this. The machine will kill you.

The way things are going we will end of with a lot of NEETs (Not in Education, Employment, or Training) but before that have A.I. educate them though V.R. rigs much like games where you have to learn, remember and demonstrate something to move though the game. Education tailored to each individual at their own pace. Different game scenarios based on personality profile compiled by the A.I.

originally posted by: luthier
a reply to: SlapMonkey

I don't think a ccl means you can shoot in a crisis. I think that class is a different classification and should have monthly maintenance.

Ccl is for getting mugged as far as the test. Ccl weapons areally mostly small barrel innacruate guns and most don't even have very good sights as they hang up on clothing or in purses.

Hmmm...that's why there is a lot of talk about training, not just getting a permit and then saying, "Here ya go...hope you shoot the bad guy instead of someone else!"

I have had both military training and civilian tactical pistol training, but in a school full of kids, even I'm uncertain that I would have what it takes without further training. And that's the point that most of us are making--these volunteers to carry this burden would have to be tactically trained specifically for such situations.

As for the CCDW class and test, for the most part it's a relative joke, except for the parts that go over the state laws that govern concealed carry and use of deadly force (and most importantly, when NOT to use it). The rest is just to prove you know how to clean a weapon and fire some rounds at a stationary target 21 feet away.

But for those of us who take every step of the way seriously, it's an appropriate step in educating people willing to carry a concealed weapon, or who just want the ability to do so.

As far as the design of EDC-specific firearms, much of what you talk about has been accounted for by manufacturers. But I guess I carry the "old school" way--holster on the outside of the waistband, so snags and cumbersome sights don't matter much to me. Although, now that you bring it up, I really dislike the stock sights on the S&W M&P Shield...I think that I'm going to upgrade to some Big Dot sights. (honestly, though, in an intimate scenario where I would have to pull my weapon, sights are generally unnecessary)

I would conceal carry if it was legal.

a reply to: JAGStorm

originally posted by: sligtlyskeptical
a reply to: Jubei42

We can just make all the people on welfare work as teachers.

Except being a teacher requires quite a bit of education, both in your area of study and in how to communicate that information.

Talked to my son again....he said....

- its a school problem, meaning schools need to step up
- most teachers are instigators choosing to push their authority over accepting their leadership. It creates far too much friction for behaviorally challenged students.
- teachers need to be trained in de-escalation techniques
- a profile needs to be developed so teachers can spot warning signs
- bullying is the second biggest issue to him, behind overauthoritarian staff


I agree with him that this is a school problem and needs to be solved by adapting the academic environment.

holographic classrooms

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
Talked to my son again....he said....

- its a school problem, meaning schools need to step up
- most teachers are instigators choosing to push their authority over accepting their leadership. It creates far too much friction for behaviorally challenged students.
- teachers need to be trained in de-escalation techniques
- a profile needs to be developed so teachers can spot warning signs
- bullying is the second biggest issue to him, behind overauthoritarian staff


I agree with him that this is a school problem and needs to be solved by adapting the academic environment.

I'm not so sure your son is right. While I'm sure he's pointing out issues in educator education, mass shootings haven't been limited to schools. The US averages 1 mass shooting per day. Sometimes it's a church, other times a night club, occasionally a school, in the Fort Hood case it was even a military base. The cause is more broad than just classroom experience.

Now, schools can certainly take measures to mitigate events that happen on school grounds (what those measures are is up for debate), but does that actually fix the problem? I think it would just push someone to open fire at a playground or daycare instead if harming kids is their goal.

We can't have armed guards everywhere, there's just not enough people to fill the jobs and make that a reality. Even if we could we would be talking about the creation of a police state.

If I'm being fully honest about the cause, I think it has to do a lot with social media. If you've ever gone on reddit and taken a look at the redpill (and before it was banned, incels) forums. It was full of a bunch of people who are a near perfect fit for the psychology of mass shooters. I think that these people form these communities, and then radicalize each other through their echo chamber causing them to lash out.

originally posted by: SlapMonkey

originally posted by: luthier
a reply to: SlapMonkey

I don't think a ccl means you can shoot in a crisis. I think that class is a different classification and should have monthly maintenance.

Ccl is for getting mugged as far as the test. Ccl weapons areally mostly small barrel innacruate guns and most don't even have very good sights as they hang up on clothing or in purses.

Hmmm...that's why there is a lot of talk about training, not just getting a permit and then saying, "Here ya go...hope you shoot the bad guy instead of someone else!"

I have had both military training and civilian tactical pistol training, but in a school full of kids, even I'm uncertain that I would have what it takes without further training. And that's the point that most of us are making--these volunteers to carry this burden would have to be tactically trained specifically for such situations.

As for the CCDW class and test, for the most part it's a relative joke, except for the parts that go over the state laws that govern concealed carry and use of deadly force (and most importantly, when NOT to use it). The rest is just to prove you know how to clean a weapon and fire some rounds at a stationary target 21 feet away.

But for those of us who take every step of the way seriously, it's an appropriate step in educating people willing to carry a concealed weapon, or who just want the ability to do so.

As far as the design of EDC-specific firearms, much of what you talk about has been accounted for by manufacturers. But I guess I carry the "old school" way--holster on the outside of the waistband, so snags and cumbersome sights don't matter much to me. Although, now that you bring it up, I really dislike the stock sights on the S&W M&P Shield...I think that I'm going to upgrade to some Big Dot sights. (honestly, though, in an intimate scenario where I would have to pull my weapon, sights are generally unnecessary)

I hear some people talking about training. I hear others offering a similar solution as let's ban guns.

Let's arm teachers. Well it's not exactly that simple and there are states where the schools may not find many willing to do so.

Those of us that shoot know how often you have to shoot, particularly hand guns, to be even an accurate target competition shooter with just pressure of competition.

I don't want you to think I am apposed to the idea. Just saying it's not a simple rubber stamp. It would require first screening psychologically, and screening for the type of marksmanship shorting in crowded school would take.

Some people say the deterrent is enough but I don't think banking on a shot would never need be fired is a very good thought process. You also don't want Rambo thinking he is a better shot than he is. Hell half the people who think they are heroes probably don't know how they would react until in that situation or if they were combat vets.

This is why off duty cops arent a shoe in either. Their numbers for hitting innocent bystandars in crowded places are terrible. And then we have that guy hiding outide while it went down.

Anyhow not opposed just saying it has some logistical considerations some people all for it may not be considering if they don't shoot or were not vets.

Also on carying I am aware of all the types. I had a rib wrap etc however not sure I would have a 1911 in it as a gym teacher for instance.

originally posted by: luthier

Let's arm teachers. Well it's not exactly that simple and there are states where the schools may not find many willing to do so.

A good example is the Kentucky POST program, where they are striving get volunteers trained up properly and modeling it after the National Armed Pilots Program. They will be looking for volunteers, and there is discussion that volunteers will include non-teachers or administrators in the community willing to invest in the training to be at the ready, just in case.

It has yet to be implemented, but it's something that I support, and hopefully they include carefully vetted civilians in the roles of acceptable volunteers.

But in those communities and districts where they make it hard or impossible to participate, or where there are no volunteers, I guess they will leave their schools as open and exposed as they are now. In both the recent KY and FL school attacks, the school resource officers on location took no action to stop the atrocities. I'm done buying into the idea that relying on law enforcement is always the best solution (and never really bought into that anyhow).

I don't want you to think I am apposed to the idea. Just saying it's not a simple rubber stamp. It would require first screening psychologically, and screening for the type of marksmanship shorting in crowded school would take.

Agreed. The last thing that I want is a psychopath using these volunteer programs to do a Trojan-horse style attack on a school.

Some people say the deterrent is enough but I don't think banking on a shot would never need be fired is a very good thought process. You also don't want Rambo thinking he is a better shot than he is. Hell half the people who think they are heroes probably don't know how they would react until in that situation or if they were combat vets.

Or, again, it goes back to situation-specific training, and training that would have to occur, at least, quarterly or semi-annually. Mandatory range time monthly would also need to be a thing. We both know that stationary target shooting is not the best training, but it definitely keeps people familiarized with firing their weapons efficiently.

As for relying on deterrence, if that were enough, our laws against murder and carrying weapons on school grounds would have stopped all of these before they happened. Deterrence is never enough, but it is a part of the overall puzzle.

This is why off duty cops arent a shoe in either. Their numbers for hitting innocent bystandars in crowded places are terrible. And then we have that guy hiding outide while it went down.

No one should be a shoe-in; every applicant must prove their abilities and worth, and even then, it's hard to say if they would run toward gun fire or cower outside waiting for back-up. But it's nearly impossible to test someone's courage under fire, but I agree that no one is a shoe-in.

Anyhow not opposed just saying it has some logistical considerations some people all for it may not be considering if they don't shoot or were not vets.

Agreed.

Also on carying I am aware of all the types. I had a rib wrap etc however not sure I would have a 1911 in it as a gym teacher for instan

1911s are terrible EDC weapons, simply because of the weight of them. Polymer frames are where it's at for carry, IMO. I also opt for single-stack, but I have a double-magazine holster that I can carry with me if needed, which it never really is, but I do put it on if I'm traveling to unfamiliar cities. You just never know what the heebie-jeebies could happen out there.

Good chat, sir.

Also, the shoulder is about back to 100%, minus flexibility issues.

a reply to: SlapMonkey

Good chat indeed. It's easy to just say things, it's harder to inact a real plan. I am not opposed to the ideas we discussed but want people to discuss the logistical implementation to have a real program. Not some half ass government rubber stamp that will solve all our problems but turns out to be an election campaign platform.

Glad about the shoulder. Have you tried the broom stretches? Holding a broom with a wide grip and moving it from front waist over head to back with arms locked (eventually) and it's variations. For those of us working at a bench or computer it's a huge help.

a reply to: luthier

No, I haven't done that stretch yet, but since I'm able to do 99% of all of the upper-body workouts in Krav now without any real shoulder pain, I'm going to start implementing so good stretching soon.

Thanks for the suggestion.

And rubber stamps be damned!

a reply to: Aazadan

I don't disagree with you in that he may be wrong....i was just throwing out what a teacher i know said.

His biggest issue with education is the authority thing. Last week he had a teacher in another behavioral class that had a disagreement with one of his students. My son intervened and took over as it was his student. The teacher wanted the student removed, my son declined as it was not necessary.

The next day instead of the 2 classes mingling for lunch, the other teacher stated he didn't feel comfortable around that student. So all the students were then upset because their 1 chance to socialize was ruined by what appeared to everyone else to be retaliation.

Just as in any walk of life, there are people who are terrible at the job doing the job in some cases. In others, the best and brightest are giving it their all. I think if we, as a culture, were better at removing the turds it would not only make people better at doing the stuff they agree to do...it would improve many areas of our culture. Teaching isn't the only career where half assed efforts and wrong minded attempts taint an otherwise noble effort.