Why the fall had to occur

originally posted by: the2ofusr1
a reply to: Woodcarver

It’s always used as faith in something that is believed in. None of these definitions include disbelief. If you can bring a plausible definition which includes disbelief, then i’ll concede, but without that, i’ll just keep pointing out how you’re using words incorrectly.

Do you have the belief that there is no God ? Do you trust in your belief that there is no God ?

I have no reason to believe in gods. Can you present a good reason for me to believe in one?

originally posted by: the2ofusr1
a reply to: Woodcarver

It doesn’t take faith to not believe your claims.

It would take faith to believe that God does not exist .I always figured that being agnostic was a least tenable while atheism was not ,especially when it is centered on Empirical evidence or lack there of . My big surprise once I took faith as a guide was the amount of smaller tid bits that keep adding up to a stronger belief .The bigger hurdles for me was my own assumptions and misunderstandings I had going into the faith . Finding a closer context to the truth helps and so studying and questioning and re-reading the Bible always clears up some of the muddy blurred picture for me .

i have no reason to believe any gods exist. You can’t put words in my mouth.

Yes, once you agree to believe things that aren’t real, then the standard is lowered and you will be able to believe anything.

a reply to: Woodcarver

I have no reason to believe in gods. Can you present a good reason for me to believe in one?

I can not but I suspect that God Himself could not either ...Oh wait , God can do what ever He wants including ignoring those who ignore His gift of salvation .

a reply to: Woodcarver

Yes, once you agree to believe things that aren’t real, then the standard is lowered and you will be able to believe anything.

2 words that come to mind " possibilities and probabilities . Who would have dreamed a mere 300 years ago that man could fly to the edge of space and what would have been the possibilities of him surviving the trip . It may all come down to the individuals ability to imagine the seemingly impossible .

a reply to: Woodcarver

The subject isn't you Woody, it's understanding the bible
You don't and pretending you do is silly

If you are a Hebrew and brake the Hebrew law, then you will be punished according to Hebrew law
Want to live outside of Hebrew law, leave

Is that so hard for you to understand

You so eloquently explained my point to yourself
Stop being silly, it's not a good look

a reply to: the2ofusr1

I don't think God ignores anyone, ever
But we have. Free will

originally posted by: the2ofusr1
a reply to: Woodcarver

I have no reason to believe in gods. Can you present a good reason for me to believe in one?

I can not but I suspect that God Himself could not either ...Oh wait , God can do what ever He wants including ignoring those who ignore His gift of salvation .

Proof of his existence is the minimum i would expect. If he can’t do that then why would you believe?

a reply to: Dcopymope

The symbolic "fall" was simply a stepping down from nonduality into duality.

a reply to: Woodcarver

Proof of his existence is the minimum i would expect. If he can’t do that then why would you believe?

Because He makes the rules and its a by faith He requires ...Its like thinking about or around quantum mechanics .Spooky stuff and no one knows why but there it is .deal with it or not I guess .

a reply to: Raggedyman

I don't think God ignores anyone, ever But we have. Free will

God wont ignore anyone who comes to Him in faith .That is the first step on our part ,,so He does ignore our demands and rules we try to impose on Him . He can deal with our doubts but He requires we have faith .

a reply to: Dcopymope

It's not complicated, and it's not about some "magic apple", or whatever, either.

God created people in His own image, and that meant giving people the freedom to choose. Why did He do this? God didn't want, as the video states, "automatons"; He wanted people who could choose to love Him, and choose to follow His perfect will. No freedom to choose, no actual love. A robot can't love you, even if programmed to state that it does.

Since people were given a choice, it's a safe bet that some will choose the wrong thing. Hence, God decided fro the before the beginning to take care of that as well. He came in the form of a man, and bled and died in our place, paying the price for our sins. He then rose, defeating death.

Why, someone will now ask, did God make death the penalty for sin? Laws are useless unless they are enforced. A law with no punishment isn't a law at all. Now, given that laws demand consequences if broken, and remembering free will, God's plan had to include that way of salvation, Himself.

originally posted by: Woodcarver
I am daily convinced that christians are crazy and should not be given positions of power.

So tolerant of you....

....not.

originally posted by: LadyGreenEyes
a reply to: Dcopymope

It's not complicated, and it's not about some "magic apple", or whatever, either.

God created people in His own image, and that meant giving people the freedom to choose. Why did He do this? God didn't want, as the video states, "automatons"; He wanted people who could choose to love Him, and choose to follow His perfect will. No freedom to choose, no actual love. A robot can't love you, even if programmed to state that it does.

Since people were given a choice, it's a safe bet that some will choose the wrong thing. Hence, God decided fro the before the beginning to take care of that as well. He came in the form of a man, and bled and died in our place, paying the price for our sins. He then rose, defeating death.

Why, someone will now ask, did God make death the penalty for sin? Laws are useless unless they are enforced. A law with no punishment isn't a law at all. Now, given that laws demand consequences if broken, and remembering free will, God's plan had to include that way of salvation, Himself.

You're right, it's not complicated, but the simple answer, that God knew that some, as you put it would make the wrong choice, has not been a good enough answer for those who ask the typical questions stemming from Adam and Even's temptation in Eden, which, you know, is why they keep asking it. I as well have not been happy with the responses Christians give to such answers either, so that's why I made the video to give an in-depth, yet straight forward answer I have yet to see anyone give anywhere, to spell it out for them. As I explain, it was more than just about us having a mind of our own, and God knowing this to be so. There is a specific reason why his son was predestined to be the lamb slain for our sins before the six day creation. The reason is simple, as far as God was concerned, "all have sinned and come short of his glory", as Paul stated in Romans. He didn't say "some will sin", or "some will make the wrong choice", he said " ALL have sinned", which is basically a shining example of God declaring the end from the beginning, that there is no one in heaven or earth that is righteous except him. All HAVE sinned as Adam sinned, because what we call the future has already occurred from Gods vantage point.

originally posted by: LadyGreenEyes

originally posted by: Woodcarver
I am daily convinced that christians are crazy and should not be given positions of power.

So tolerant of you....

....not.

Did you see the post i was responding to? Can you imagine what would happen if one of these guys had any power in this world? If they were able to make laws with their twisted ideas about how the world operates? I don’t want people who think that all himans are evil to have power over others. To be able to make decisions for us based on their beliefs which cannot be proven. I think that is pretty reasonable of me.

Oh wait, you’re on their side. You think the punishment for sin is death too?

Does anyone have any way to prove what they are saying? Or is this just a big pat on the back circle jerk? You all seem to relish in accepting bad ideas. That will be religions downfall. You will all make yourselves obsolete in fear of offending your own imaginary ghosts. Step aside and let reasonable people do real work.

originally posted by: Woodcarver


Oh wait, you’re on their side. You think the punishment for sin is death too?

Do you not comprehend english woody

Hebrew, its for hebrews
christianity, its for christians

Nobody expects anything but your constant "poor me" moaning from you

You clearly are not a christian or hebrew so none of it applies to you

Why harp on when even you dont feel it relevant to you

Whats wrong with you, why complain when its not relevant to you?
I just dont get it

originally posted by: the2ofusr1
a reply to: Raggedyman

I don't think God ignores anyone, ever But we have. Free will

God wont ignore anyone who comes to Him in faith .That is the first step on our part ,,so He does ignore our demands and rules we try to impose on Him . He can deal with our doubts but He requires we have faith .

Kinda disagree
Bruxy teaches the Gospel in chairs on this video
How God seeks us out
Never turns his back on us

originally posted by: Raggedyman

originally posted by: Woodcarver


Oh wait, you’re on their side. You think the punishment for sin is death too?

Do you not comprehend english woody

Hebrew, its for hebrews
christianity, its for christians

Nobody expects anything but your constant "poor me" moaning from you

You clearly are not a christian or hebrew so none of it applies to you

Why harp on when even you dont feel it relevant to you

Whats wrong with you, why complain when its not relevant to you?
I just dont get it

So you have no way of telling or showing what you have to say is real? I mean just say it. You’re making this stuff up as you go.

originally posted by: Woodcarver

originally posted by: Raggedyman

originally posted by: Woodcarver


Oh wait, you’re on their side. You think the punishment for sin is death too?

Do you not comprehend english woody

Hebrew, its for hebrews
christianity, its for christians

Nobody expects anything but your constant "poor me" moaning from you

You clearly are not a christian or hebrew so none of it applies to you

Why harp on when even you dont feel it relevant to you

Whats wrong with you, why complain when its not relevant to you?

I just dont get it

So you have no way of telling or showing what you have to say is real? I mean just say it. You’re making this stuff up as you go.

Are you Jewish Woody?
Are you Christian?

Can you answer those questions

If you can, and your answer is "no", what the hell is it to you anyway, just moaning for the sake of it
Dont follow the rules, no one is forcing you
Have you been circuncised, baptised, stoned, lost a tooth because of religion, NO?
Why all the crying and moaning, it doesnt effect you does it?

Dont believe in God, its your choice

Grow up...

I have no way of telling you anything, my hope though is to show you, you are a religious or atheist fundamentalist who has no capacity toself reflect on your hypocrisy

Dont bitch and moan at me if I choose to

originally posted by: Woodcarver

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: Woodcarver

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: Woodcarver

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: Woodcarver

originally posted by: Dcopymope
a reply to: Woodcarver

Again, watch the video. You will either except the answer or you won't.

The video is stupid. Your starting from a place where you have already accepted that a bunch of # actually happened. You literally have to believe in some crazy # to get this far into this explanation. All the while you are forgetting to bring any proof that this god you believe in, even exists.

Shouldn’t we start with proving that this god of yours is real? before you start attributing all of these motivations to him? It looks a lot like you are projecting your own motivations onto this thing. It is a way for you to feel above others. You can point around at people and arbitrarily judge them by your fav book. The book tells you what to like and what not to like, and then you expand on it to include anyone who disagrees with you. It’s just a book. A fictional book full of the things that people believed thousands of years ago. Meanwhile, some of us already know not to be dicks to people while your still spouting about adam and eve and atonement for things that never happened to a god that doesn’t exist. Those stories are old man. God isn’t real. That stuff didn’t happen.

I see no dif between islam and christianity. Both are worthless at anything except creating people who think they need to force others to comply with them.

Prove any god exists before you start telling people what he’s like.

Existence of everything, the whole universe, in its incredibly complex and varied form, despite 13.4 billion years of entropy, is a pretty good evidence of something way beyond science.

I mean, science tells us that nearly everything evolved from less complex forms. How did that entropy reversal happen and why is it now (measurably) going the other way?

Science is just another mythology, full of nonsense like 'anti-entropic' actions performed randomly by nothing, like the superluminal expansion of the universe, like that a universe-massive super-singularity could actually ever expand (surely it would attract, capture and collapse any existing mass to the singularity, for eternity), like quantum superposition and Pauli exclusion somehow don't negate the idea of creation of that super-singularity from quantum fluctuation. Like a multi-worlds hypothesis which jibes against the measurable fact that energy can neither be created nor destroyed (it would have to be infinitely creatable to bifurcate the existing universe into new ones all the time).

And, of course, you'd see Christianity and Islam as essentially the same.

Anti entropic? You see that huge ball of gas burning in the sky sometimes? You know, the one that powers pretty much every reaction that takes place on this planet? The one constantly adding energy to this world? You ever see that?

That big ball is spraying out all its energy into space. Distributing and dissipating itself. It is the very engine of entropy.

The energy that it emanates from it, once went into it. The Sun does not 'make' energy, it converts some of the mass to energy through nuclear fusion.

When it has consumed itself and flung enough into space, it will go cold. Then it will still loose energy until even its smallest particles dissipate into space in the heat death of the universe.

It has been 'entropying' like this for tens of billions of years. But how did it get its start?

Why did enough 'Big Bang' energy convert itself into matter and then clump enough to attract gravitationally?

The same entropy, at the same rate that is killing the Sun today, despite its condensed mass, were acting upon it before its birth?

Lol, oh my goodness. This is stuff they teach fifth graders man. The sun is supplying the earth with energy. Even though it is in a state of entropy, this energy bathes our entire world as it disipates. Large masses of matter have a proportional gravitational pull on objects which enter it’s field.

You seem to have forgotten that the stuff that is dissipating now must have come from somewhere and assembled rather than dissipating.

How?

Gravity. You do know how stars and planets form? This isn’t new science.

... and how did gravity happen?

... and before you say mass causes gravity, that also is a non-answer. How did we get mass?

... and mass is a type of energy, where did the energy come from?

... and before you suggest a singularity, that is just a point of gravity and mass. It doesn't explain their existence but is part the entirely circular non-answer.

How?

originally posted by: jokei

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: jokei
a reply to: Woodcarver

Your genitals make you a bad and sinful person.

Actually, the brain is the largest sexual organ.

What about the dirty pillows?

That is why washable pillow cases are so incredibly utilitarian.