Mueller's Russia Probe and Potential Legal Endgames

"There are two possible ways this could end up going, and

both hinge on why Flynn lied,"

IF
A) "Flynn lied about his Russia contacts because they were deemed politically damaging"

If the facts bear that out, that could mean an obstruction of justice case. For months, news outlets have reported that Mueller is looking into whether Trump obstructed justice, which would amount to attempting to influence or subvert an ongoing investigation.
...
"The president has the right to fire anybody when he wants. But what he can't do is try to interject improper influence in, and impede, an investigation," said Michael J. Moore, a former U.S. attorney now at Pope McGlamry in Atlanta.

IF
B) "Flynn lied to shield a broader network of contacts between Trump associates, Russians and some nefarious actions they engaged in together."

even though "collusion" is a word that has been frequently bandied about, there is no such criminal charge. There is another C-word that could come into play — conspiracy.

...

Depending on the facts developed in Mueller's investigation, there are a couple of options.

the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act
if there is evidence that Trump associates worked with Russia on the hacking of the Democratic National Committee or the emails of Hillary Clinton's campaign chairman, John Podesta.

"I think the special counsel would like to be able to charge them as co-conspirators to the hack or accessories after the fact,"

the Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act.

or

Or a more general conspiracy charge — to defraud the United States — could come into play, according to Eliason. Conspiracy of this sort means interfering with a lawful government function by deceit or dishonest means.

if one worked with the Russians to leak information and create false social media accounts and other such stuff, that could be conspiracy to defraud the U.S."

...

A third possible endgame is some sort of financial crime such as money laundering.
"My guess is this is all going to center around money — Russian money," Moore said.

LINK to NPR Article

For the legally minded the article does a good job of forecasting which directions the Probe might be heading and why.

Opinions on what charges Mueller might be driving for welcome.

The FBI has been following Trumps Russian Mafia connections for some time. He knows it and his attorneys are trying like hell to cut some kind of deal.

I wonder who will be sacrificed to take the heat....?


www.sanluisobispo.com...

www.fastcompany.com...

a reply to: soberbacchus

What if Flynn is just a habitual liar.

originally posted by: 3daysgone
a reply to: soberbacchus

What if Flynn is just a habitual liar.

They are not relying on his testimony.

They are relying on him for where to look for evidence (Emails, Banking Records, Other Potential Witnesses etc.)

originally posted by: olaru12
The FBI has been following Trumps Russian Mafia connections for some time.

Russians laundering money via his real estate goes back to his bankruptcy days.

AND is as recent as this month:

Trump building in Panama tied to Russian mafia, international crime: report

Investors and customers of the Trump Ocean Club International Hotel and Tower in Panama City carried deep ties to organized crime and drug trafficking, according to an NBC News and Reuters joint investigation.
thehill.com...

Nobody in the real estate deals for any of his properties asks any questions where the money comes from.

The money laundered either by sitting in the equity or when it is sold.

He takes 18-25% of all profits in sales.

a reply to: olaru12

A letter to the editor of a newspaper?

The 2nd link is from a nutcase broadcasting network services LLC?

I thought you were linking the "deal" in your post?

Flynn lied because he lives in Washington DC. No other explanation is needed.

originally posted by: loveguy
a reply to: olaru12

A letter to the editor of a newspaper?

The 2nd link is from a nutcase broadcasting network services LLC?

I thought you were linking the "deal" in your post?

Have you read this yet....www.abovetopsecret.com...

Attacking the source shows "you got nuthin"

Before Flynn ever got with Trump, he was hiding that he was lobbying for the Turkish government. He did not disclose this when he applied for a position with the Trump team. He was dishonest, had dirt on himself and knew he would be scrutinized. The never Trumpers of the GOP were silent and let the Flynn association happen even though they were most likely privy to intelligence of Flynn's connections. Only after he got with Trump did accusations start flying there was something wrong with the guy. Trump's Party was not on his side, never had his back but he won anyway. They would never have tried to set up a Bush with a Flynn like they did with Trump, they would have actively shielded tainted advisors from getting into a Bush election team. The GOP are the ones manning the intelligence committees, they could have shielded Trump from rotten apples like Flynn, that is the tell.

Trump didn't do anything wrong but his stated desire to drain the swamp has really stirred up the bottom feeders.

a reply to: 3daysgone

He didn't garner the respect he once had by being a habitual liar.
But another possibility is he lied simply because there was so much Russia this and Russia that at the time and to mention any meetings would have just looked bad. Like he was forced to lie just because the I.C. was looking for Russian connections everywhere.

I don't think this is what happened but it is a possibility that doesn't get any airtime.
It would mean that maybe the team wasn't getting the best advice.

a reply to: soberbacchus

To be honest the building in Panama is not a trump property he only rents his name to the building.

originally posted by: Sillyolme
a reply to: 3daysgone

He didn't garner the respect he once had by being a habitual liar.
But another possibility is he lied simply because there was so much Russia this and Russia that at the time and to mention any meetings would have just looked bad. Like he was forced to lie just because the I.C. was looking for Russian connections everywhere.

I don't think this is what happened but it is a possibility that doesn't get any airtime.
It would mean that maybe the team wasn't getting the best advice.

I can't believe it, but I'm actually giving you a star. I think this might be the most likely reason. Because at the end of the day, there was nothing inappropriate about Flynn meeting with the Russian ambassador. Such discussions are a normal part of the transition process. But the Red Scare/witch hunt atmosphere had made the environment in Washington so toxic that Flynn was likely afraid to admit to the conversations, precisely because he knew they would seized upon as "evidence" to support the Russia Narrative.

originally posted by: soberbacchus

originally posted by: olaru12
The FBI has been following Trumps Russian Mafia connections for some time.

Russians laundering money via his real estate goes back to his bankruptcy days.
AND is as recent as this month:
Trump building in Panama tied to Russian mafia, international crime: report
Investors and customers of the Trump Ocean Club International Hotel and Tower in Panama City carried deep ties to organized crime and drug trafficking, according to an NBC News and Reuters joint investigation.

you really believe, if that was the case - it wouldn't have come out;

1. during the election by Obama,
2. after the election by the Clintons,
3. after the inauguration by the FBI,
4. or during the year long investigation by Clinton, Obama and FBI lackies under Mueller?

originally posted by: TinfoilTP

The never Trumpers of the GOP were silent and let the Flynn association happen even though they were most likely privy to intelligence of Flynn's connections.

Precisely the opposite.

When Pres. Obama met with Trump in the WH, he specifically warned him that Flynn was sketchy and should not be part of the transition.

Sally Yates went as far to repeatedly explain to Trump and Team that Flynn was blackmail risk.

Trump ignored all of them and only let Flynn go after his lies regarding conversations with Russia went public.

Trump then asked FBI Director Comey to let the investigation into Flynn go.

Comey was subsequently fired.

a reply to: soberbacchus

If obama knew that flynn was bad news why did he not seek to prosecute him?
Or at the least pull his security clearance?

originally posted by: Sillyolme
a reply to: soberbacchus

To be honest the building in Panama is not a trump property he only rents his name to the building.

Correct.
For 18-25% (his standard licensing fee) of the profits from unit sales.
It is also unusual that the deals where he licenses the Trump Name to properties have high numbers of Russian buyers that face no scrutiny during the purchasing transactions.

Someone that collects 18-25% of money flow of dirty money being laundered qualifies as a money launderer to me, even if legally it is a more complex crime to prove.

a reply to: Sillyolme

You should also look at Trump Casino's.

Senate, House and Independent Counsel have been reviewing Money Laundering Charges from back when trump needed money desperately.

The feds wanted to arrest Ivankov, but he kept vanishing. “He was like a ghost to the FBI,” one agent recalls. Agents spotted him meeting with other Russian crime figures in Miami, Los Angeles, Boston, and Toronto. They also found he made frequent visits to Trump Taj Mahal in Atlantic City, which mobsters routinely used to launder huge sums of money. In 2015, the Taj Mahal was fined $10 million—the highest penalty ever levied by the feds against a casino—and admitted to having “willfully violated” anti-money-laundering regulations for years.

The FBI also struggled to figure out where Ivankov lived. “We were looking around, looking around, looking around,” James Moody, chief of the bureau’s organized crime section, told Friedman. “We had to go out and really beat the bushes. And then we found out that he was living in a luxury condo in Trump Tower.”

Good Article on Russian Mobsters and Trumps Money Laundering
Trump’s Russian Laundromat
How to use Trump Tower and other luxury high-rises to clean dirty money, run an international crime syndicate, and propel a failed real estate developer into the White House.
newrepublic.com...

originally posted by: shooterbrody
a reply to: soberbacchus

If obama knew that flynn was bad news why did he not seek to prosecute him?
Or at the least pull his security clearance?

Retired military officials can keep their security clearances, with periodic background checks.

Flynn’s last two background checks to retain his security clearance took place during the Obama administration,
in June 2010
and January 2016,
according to the April 7 DIA letter.

www.politifact.com...

Flynn working as an unregistered agent of Turkey didn't become public until March 2017
Flynn's Conversations with Kisylak didn't happen until Dec. 2016

In his last clearance letter Jan. 2016 Flynn did not disclose payments from Russia for his visit and talk to RT Media.

All of it came to light late December 2016 through March 2017.

A couple weeks over the holidays, is not enough time for the FBI and DOD to complete an investigation and strip a security clearance.

Despite that President Obama warned Trump during transition and the Deputy AG repeatedly warned Trump days before Trump fired her.

Wait a second, does anyone here actually believe that the Republican controlled Congress would actually vote to impeach/remove Trump? I mean, so what if Mueller and Co. give us all absolute proof that Trump is a Russian/Mafia Stooge, or that he committed high treason. I can't see any scenario whatsoever where the Republicans actually remove him.

a reply to: soberbacchus

A couple weeks over the holidays, is not enough time for the FBI and DOD to complete an investigation and strip a security clearance.

that is laugh out loud ignorant