More debt than currency ever printed the money system is a scam

originally posted by: pirhanna

originally posted by: seasonal
a reply to: dfnj2015

Fractional reserve lending creates the principle but not the interest.

The system is designed for never ending expansion and inflation. It is not a system that can be sustainable in a limited world.

Exactly. Modern financial systems are based almost entirely on debt (and some energy trading). The trick is keeping the debt liquid. And when expansion stops so does the liquidity, collapsing the pyramid. Or part of it (like 2008 e.g.)

Its not sustainable in any format that doesnt have strategic collapsing of markets, and those are used by the ruling elite to capitalize / pilfer everyone elses assets.

The Federal reserve was supposed to stop the boom bust cycles. They have failed and we are hip deep in debt. The only reason the US can get this deep is the petro dollar.

It will take a complete and total collapse or WW III to reset this. In either case I doubt many of us would make it through it.

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a reply to: JoshuaCox
Gold buys labor and resources. Just try to remember that the rulers have all the gold, is that because they think it has no value, or because they know it buys anything in the world somebody wants?

It is historically established money for a reason. It is the number one technology metal if you want to perform magic miracles umm technology my bad.

Gold also has properties that have demonstrated uses in pre-electrical technology. The rulers of history know exactly the potential it has and is why it is always the number one money when everything else fails.

Chances are many old stories that reference magic and miracles may have used a technology that had gold in it to make such things possible. We are able to speak to each other on a screen from different parts of the world because there is gold in these devices. If it has remote capabilities to communicate, it has gold in it. If you took everything electronic today in your home that had gold in it, you would be left with not much electronics.

Does it have an optical laser to read disks? There is gold in it.

Gold has many values, the most important is its ability to give manufactured goods the ability to perform magic and miracles, or at least those are the terms that would be used to describe them as little as two hundred years ago.

originally posted by: seasonal

originally posted by: pirhanna

originally posted by: seasonal
a reply to: dfnj2015

Fractional reserve lending creates the principle but not the interest.

The system is designed for never ending expansion and inflation. It is not a system that can be sustainable in a limited world.

Exactly. Modern financial systems are based almost entirely on debt (and some energy trading). The trick is keeping the debt liquid. And when expansion stops so does the liquidity, collapsing the pyramid. Or part of it (like 2008 e.g.)

Its not sustainable in any format that doesnt have strategic collapsing of markets, and those are used by the ruling elite to capitalize / pilfer everyone elses assets.

The Federal reserve was supposed to stop the boom bust cycles. They have failed and we are hip deep in debt. The only reason the US can get his deep is the petro dollar.
/

The bust cycles is how the bankers make the most money. They get all the properties back for the next boom.

It seems to be boom and bust is an inherent flaw to the system. We have too much capacity with automation, prices are too high, and wages are too low. Add those three together and how can it not bust????

Dr. Nathan Hagens is my go-to guy on this subject. Masters in Economics and a PHD in Natural Resources. He is the best source, specifically regarding the debt/natural resource scenario of capitalism.

As he so famously put it, our economy is a giant ponzi scheme that is entirely untenable. The debt cycles we endure only work in an economy that continues growing. There has to be the belief that there will be more tomorrow than there is today or this debt refinancing falls apart. In a world with decidedly finite resources the idea that growth is infinite is insane. We are fighting a war with depletion and depletion is winning.

a reply to: dfnj2015

Correct, in many cases the US form of capitalism is about exploitation. I think about the whole system to get tomatoes to the American table. It is full of abuses and strong armed tactics. Sad and conveniently hidden.

a reply to: dfnj2015


The Lincoln Greenback is an unbacked form of currency which is pretty much identical to our current form of currency. We cannot just print a $1.8trillion dollar note and pay off the debt without devaluing every other dollar already in circulation or held in various types of accounts.

I will gladly, and for free, take all of everyone's paper money that is an insult to your sensibilities.

I will dispose of it so no one will ever have to look at it again.

a reply to: dfnj2015

You would prefer a system where the Government owns everything and we all wait 8 hours in a soup line. Wealth is not finite and everyone can become what they make of themselves. Your limited view of the world through your Communist / Socialist colored glasses is becoming tiresome.

a reply to: dfnj2015

You're right about the money scam.

But Trump-Bucks? Screw that pompous egotistical arrogant ass.

He's a part of the problem.
Solutions will need to come from outside of the current paradigm.

What has value? Energy?
Who's to say?

a reply to: Nothin

What has value? Energy? Who's to say?

Energy IS the backbone of the modern standard of living. Whatever people demand is what has value.

a reply to: Nothin

Trump bucks is one way of putting it, but in reality it doesn't matter what its called. It will be the replacement for the dollar in the event of a reset similar to Wiemar, Germany. You go to bed with $10,000 dollars in the bank and wake up with $1,000 America bucks or Patriot dollars or whatever they are called. The old debt is cancelled and you start over without the triple digit inflation. Yes, you piss a lot of people off, especially the ones we owed money to, but realistically it was never going to get paid anyway. When the cycle of refinancing debt is broken there will be a period of about six months when the shock and awe really hit home for people. After that things will stabilize and life will go on.

From the highs in 1929 to the lows in the mid thirties the stock market lost 90% of its value. Only one in four people lived in a family where someone had a job. In today's world that equates to about 85 million people in this country in a family where anyone has a job. The other 255 million would be in the soup line. And the people who actually have a job wold be making far less than they were prior to the crash so their families aren't eating steak and potatoes either.

originally posted by: Metallicus
a reply to: Nothin

What has value? Energy? Who's to say?

Energy IS the backbone of the modern standard of living. Whatever people demand is what has value.

Sure, but was looking for a deeper, truer meaning of value.
Not what is valued in this BS society, because they are false values put-upon us by the oligarchs.
What more is a job, than a corporation getting a type of energy from us, that we give-up for trinkets?

originally posted by: Vroomfondel
a reply to: Nothin

Trump bucks is one way of putting it, but in reality it doesn't matter what its called. It will be the replacement for the dollar in the event of a reset similar to Wiemar, Germany. You go to bed with $10,000 dollars in the bank and wake up with $1,000 America bucks or Patriot dollars or whatever they are called. The old debt is cancelled and you start over without the triple digit inflation. Yes, you piss a lot of people off, especially the ones we owed money to, but realistically it was never going to get paid anyway. When the cycle of refinancing debt is broken there will be a period of about six months when the shock and awe really hit home for people. After that things will stabilize and life will go on.

From the highs in 1929 to the lows in the mid thirties the stock market lost 90% of its value. Only one in four people lived in a family where someone had a job. In today's world that equates to about 85 million people in this country in a family where anyone has a job. The other 255 million would be in the soup line. And the people who actually have a job wold be making far less than they were prior to the crash so their families aren't eating steak and potatoes either.

Yea: the kind of value that can be wiped-away by an electronic transaction, should not be used in any way shape or form, to be connected to Human well-being.
That is a false, conceptual value.

A reset can seem to have positive effects, but let us remember that if it is the same forces behind the reset, as the mess we are in: well, it might just be another ruse to squeeze more out of citizens, and their natural resources.

Great thread.

One point I'd add, here in UK we've had cuts to just about everything possible with the mantra being it's to get down our deficit, without getting into partisan politics, the method simply hasn't worked how they claim it has.

Post WW2 our GDP was far more in the red than the last banking crisis and how did they sort it out back then? Through cuts to every service? no, through MORE investment and growth, building hospitals, roads, houses, extending benefit systems for the poor etc etc. It didn't happen over night but it did it the right way.

Very similar to your Lincoln/greenback idea.

Public service Cuts, debt on the citizens are pure ideological to control the masses.

I'm a football/Soccer fan but when Neymar is getting $750,000 a WEEK, and nurses are using foodbanks, maybe its about time we joined up and asked for a change.

originally posted by: Nothin

originally posted by: Metallicus
a reply to: Nothin

What has value? Energy? Who's to say?

Energy IS the backbone of the modern standard of living. Whatever people demand is what has value.

Sure, but was looking for a deeper, truer meaning of value.
Not what is valued in this BS society, because they are false values put-upon us by the oligarchs.
What more is a job, than a corporation getting a type of energy from us, that we give-up for trinkets?

Well without energy we are back in the stone age so I definitely think it is valuable. We certainly have some technologies we can do without, but without energy we are literally done as a society.

a reply to: dfnj2015

Yup, we have a lot more debt in this country than money in circulation. Our economy is just a scam, they allow anything to make us buy more and make our GNP higher. The banks lending policies make this possible, so does raising stock prices. Your figures do not even include stock value. Stock prices in one day can raise from two dollars a share to five dollars a share with only a thousand out of two million outstanding shares being traded. That is an increase of three million dollars in stockmarket value with only three thousand actual market trading monitary increase being made.

That happens all the time, money is made out of thin air by Wallstreet and the banks. Our government allows this deceitful practice. Not much stock has to be traded to drive the price of shares down to half either. Millions of shares outstanding can be devalued by a trade of five hundred to a thousand shares.

Economies are based on faith, when faith goes down, the economy can crash.

a reply to: Taggart

How is it that the court jester or the kings fool of yesteryear is now earning 750k a week that is outrageous.

How is it we get enough people onboard to actually demand change? The left/right paradigm is literally killing us.

Financial assets always balance. What is one persons liability is another asset.

It's very easy to come up with scary sounding figures about debt, however they are often misleading.

For example you have added government and private debt together. Governments debt is an asset to the private sector not a liability.

originally posted by: ScepticScot
Governments debt is an asset to the private sector not a liability.

Who do you think pays said debt through taxation?

Sure it may be an asset to the private sector that means very little to the Jones's who can't feed their family - Multiply by millions.

originally posted by: DrMescalito

originally posted by: ScepticScot
Governments debt is an asset to the private sector not a liability.

Who do you think pays said debt through taxation?

Sure it may be an asset to the private sector that means very little to the Jones's who can't feed their family - Multiply by millions.

I don't disagree. Government debt is a form of redistribution, generally upwards.

However the point I was making was that you can't add private sector and government debt together as done in the quoted text in the OP.

Governments debt is an asset to the private sector, not a liability.