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Dissociation and the Collapse of Civilization

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posted on Oct, 19 2017 @ 06:14 PM
The American genius Charles Sanders Peirce said that there are 3 sciences to which reason should look to for its principles: mathematics, phenomenology and ethics. Amazingly, Peirce goes without noting that these 3 sciences correspond to 3rd person objective knowledge of the universe (mathematics); 1st person objective knowledge of the quality of self-experience (phenomenology); and 2nd person objective knowledge of intersubjective experience (ethics). Each of these fields give rise to essential patterns and ‘habits’, and Peirce, in his genius, assumed a continuity between the 3rd, 2nd, and 1st – which there undoubtedly is. His opposition towards relativism i.e. moral relativism, stems from his conviction that scientific claims should not contradict facts from any of the above modes of knowing i.e. self-experience, interpersonal interactions with others (and the effects they produce) and the nature of physical reality itself, as revealed by mathematical modelling.

Peirce was on the nose when he recognized the objective significance of each of these subjects, but what he couldn't speak about was the way doing and development conspire to make the mind the way it functions. In short, the human mind is a 'culture' of the various interactions it has had (and continues to have) with the world, which means that human minds come in a 'variety' of very different forms, and by no means are they all epistemologically or dynamically equal to one another. Some are more correlated to facts which obtain in the objective world, and so, their body-mind may be conceived as more coherently entrained to the self-organizing vectors of body and world (which form a continuum).

This got me thinking about all the things people do with their time, which goes far in explaining how 46% of Americans believe the news media makes up stories about Trump, despite all the overwhelming evidence contradicting that position - Trumps own voice, words and continuously pathologically mendacious behavior - a large chunk of the public doesn't even know how to coherently relate to facts about people, and how those facts are important because they help keep things "coherent". Indeed, that same poll showed that 28% of Americans would "be ok" with Trump taking away the licencing of media outlets, despite the fact that the first amendment insures the right to a free press.

What is remarkable about this is that there seems to be an absence of a knowledge that motivated the system that currently exists in the united States, and that is the significance of a free press to counter the propgandic powers of the centralized government. Of course, the press could be corrupted, but in the absence of a critical voice, which necessarily implies some de-centered 'outside' perspective, there is a simple singularity of power - that is to say; the people who currently profit from an existing system will seek, as elites have always sought, to increase their control/hold of the system.

How does this exist? Why do we live in a society where people do not recognize the one-to-one relationship between political vigilance and the things we do? If people, for instance, are knee-deep in T.V, Movies, video games, sports, and other constant intellectual distractions, why is it not admitted that such preoccupation renders the human mind unable to keep coherent track of its own activity/behavior, and furthermore, if the person is fed delusions about having an opinion that is "just as good" as people who read books, even conversing about the way activity and neuroplasticity shape awareness around a particular function or mode of being will not even be recognized as a significant argument, that is, human minds are so utterly dissociative in the societies we live within, that people are prone to experience intellectual conversations as confusing, uninteresting, and full of "too much detail". The issue for mind-brains like this is representational complexity - to which their brains are simply too undeveloped to accommodate. Indeed, republicans and other conspirators love this situation; stupid, idealistic and dissociative minds trust the very people who routinely screw them over, precisely because they are not able to metabolize the semiotic methods of the politicians in question i.e. to link it to the larger complexities related to our biological evolution and the financial incentives strewn throughout the international capitalist system that maintains an elite class who profits - and controls - at the expense of the rest.

Literature, Art, & Film Studies

It's not that I do not appreciate these fields, but it cannot be denied that they relate to intra-cultural realities, and so, do not actually relate to the objective natural world which underlies how our bodies self-organize within a larger ecosystem. This is a problem, as many people who are studied in these areas oftentimes subscribe to idealistic philosophies which have absolutely no basis in actual fact, and the only reason they are able to maintain the illusion of this truth is precisely due to them "not knowing what they do not know"; in short, you won't experience dissonance if you don't know how epistemologically invalid and faith based your position is.

The beauty of science and the reason we have the world today with computers, toilets and cars is that humans decided to "cool it" with the superstitious circular reasoning where "believing something" to be true was taken for granted, which oftentimes led to superstitious and retarded beliefs that circumvented psychological and technological progress. Indeed, the biggest sponges are the businessmen who don't much subscribe to science, but rather, to a "secret esoteric philosophy" which their pretentious story-telling mind needs to believe because it affords and allows them to maintain a control and power over a system which they indeed have much competence to manipulate, but at a cost which no sane human being would ever think is worth it.

Just as an aside, but reflective of the dissociative and confused thinking which animates so many minds, take the rapper Azealia Banks, who before the election of Donald Trump wrote:

"I have no hope for America...I think Donald Trump is evil like America is evil and in order for America to keep up with itself it needs him...politicians are inherently evil, I trust the one who is most transparent

She later retracted her support for Trump (not even noting that it conflicted with her support of black rights..aye) writing,

"i made a major mistake endorsing toupey-toupee. Womens rights are important and we must protect them."

And yet this dissociative - yet influential - creature switched sides yet again when Trump won

He is my #ing hero right now. I am elated."[

One second she seems to identify with being evil, inasmuch as she considers "America evil" "trump evil" and in "order for America to keep up with itself", they have to elect the most evil guy.

A few weeks later, this enormously irritating human being (who is currently in the process of making herself whiter via skin bleaching) writes, with regard to having a miscarriage:

Has anyone else had this same experience who cares to share some words of wisdom or words of anything regarding this topic?"[70]

posted on Oct, 19 2017 @ 06:15 PM
In response to the above quote, I found myself thinking "why should I help you if America is evil? Do you respond or care about the Yemeni people being murdered by the Saudi government, which is being armed by American corporations? Do you give a # about the effect of your cynical and negative music on others peoples minds?

In short, she has an expectation to be positively responded to, and yet her own preaching in the past has been in the service of evil, chaos, and destruction. What gives?

To be honest, this looks like a full blown dissociative identity disorder; one part identifies with the traumas associated with being female in a misogynist world; another identifies with being a victim of the American justice system (i.e. African American); and yet the much bigger part, the narcissist who thinks reality is her own little "game to play with", supports Trumps and all that he represents.

So, I wonder, why should she receive any beneficent response from the people she petitions helpful advice from? Indeed, I would be inclined to bring this very issue up to her to expose the contradiction in positions, and why, in fact, she should have no expectation of being met with kind words given she seems to be goading on the evil empire of America, which of course, comes at the expense of the vulnerable i.e. woman, people of color i.e. people like herself.

She wants it both ways, and yet certainly, does not deserve to have it both ways.

If you value destruction for others (i.e. non-americans) you have no right to expect positive responses from others; and indeed, if this situation does obtain - or occur - not being recognized when you "ask for help" actually hurts, and triggers an angry defensive reaction against the people/party/group you identify as the source of the problem.

This is also what dissociative people do: they project their own dysfunctionality and hypocrisy and inconsistency on other people, as they cannot make direct contact with their own minds.

edit on 19-10-2017 by Astrocyte because: (no reason given)

posted on Oct, 19 2017 @ 06:31 PM
I'd need hours to fully digest the whole post and coherently respond, but one thing you mentioned is immediately standing out- there is no free press in this country.
the fact that there is licensing required is immediate proof of that.

Most of the "press" consumed by this country is owned and operated by big money interests, and our own government I believe passed two different laws in the past decade giving them full control over what that big money interest media is going to broadcast.

I don't support POTUS shutting them down- because that isn't his job. But I do support shutting them down. Every last one of them. It would leave quite the gap to fill- and there is no shortage of sources to fill that gap. They're just constantly cramped out of the way by the existing media, which is not only government constrained- but very much run by corporations who are not afraid to push a narrative to get what they want.

posted on Oct, 19 2017 @ 06:54 PM
a reply to: Astrocyte

Yes, all that, combined with the fact that people are fearful, and they are quite often stupid. People who are afraid, angry and stupid can be relied on to make poor decisions. That's where we are.

posted on Oct, 19 2017 @ 07:04 PM
a reply to: Astrocyte
The visual image I get from your post is of America as a barnyard with all the chickens running around helter-skelter with their heads cut off.

posted on Oct, 19 2017 @ 07:09 PM
Why worry?

After all EVERY Civilization collapses.

All it takes is time.

Enjoy the ride while it lasts.

posted on Oct, 20 2017 @ 03:11 AM
When you make up a story it helps to use facts,not assumptions or innuendos,you just typed a bunch of words that only make sense to you,that Trump's a bad guy,the only fact you use are your opinions,another case of a 12 yr old trying to seem like an adult

posted on Oct, 20 2017 @ 01:20 PM
You equate the downfall of society to the rise of civilization without noting so.

Why do animals bury their poop. Youre the stupid one who pays a fee to give your fertilizer away. Or what do you grow with your septic tank? The sweetest veggies known to man, or weeds that need cut down with a gas powered mower?

Thats the downfall of society.. Perverting a self sustaining system for personal gain. Milking the people to sell them their own cheese. Technology is the only methodology that allows this to happen, and is the reason nature always erodes artificial systems with no regard for its timely plans.

posted on Oct, 20 2017 @ 06:46 PM
a reply to: lordcomac

We know the Press is propaganda, therefore its of no real use for information. So it is now a massive waste of time and money. We know the share market is in the same state, a massive waste. We also know the political system has been taken over by the vested interests that manipulate the same. What this does is undermine the democratic process and the rule of law. The end result of waste is its failure to provide the necessities of life, because all the real problems never get dealt with. Because those problems bring money to these vested interests. We all know how this eventually ends.

posted on Oct, 20 2017 @ 07:08 PM
I disagree about the Arts, I believe they do help humans interpret reality. We understand the world through stories and relationships- that is the field where science comes alive for us, we need context that the Arts tap into to visualize possible realities and make them felt. Knowledge without some driving force behind it is useless as it does nothing. We also must have the primal drive to make anything at all possible, the urge to live, to create, to explore and to learn. Empty sails won't move ships.

posted on Oct, 20 2017 @ 09:29 PM
a reply to: Astrocyte

I quit reading when you said we have a free press.

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