who decides what is disrespectful?

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

We'll see what happens.

As a famous man likes to say.

originally posted by: TinySickTears

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan


I should add: as an employee, you don't have a right to free speech.

which is precisely when i didnt mention how people feel about them being fined or fired. i think that is a separate issue.
i have to behave a certain way at work. i dont love that i have to be that way but i have people that depend on me so i tow the line.

When i ran call centers no one cared what i looked like. I wore basketball shorts, sneakers, and a t-shirt to work. I had hair down to my butt. When that gig ended, and I had to find work in a different industry, I had to cut the hair and actually buy some real clothes.

I feel you, man. I really do.

When a nation asks and, as was the case in our past, forces its citizens to risk their lives in armed conflict on behalf of the country, in many cases losing life or limb, is it really too much to ask that the primary symbol of that sacrifice be respected?

There are so many other means of effective protest, does it really make sense to offend those you wish to persuade to your cause?

One certainly has the right to offend whomever one wants. But if you want something from someone, it's probably smarter to take an approach that doesn't alienate them.

Just sayin'

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

We'll see what happens.

As a famous man likes to say.

so famous
so beautiful and famous

originally posted by: loam
There are so many other means of effective protest, does it really make sense to offend those you wish to persuade to your cause?

Two ways to look at this. One a LOAD of people are talking about it now. Or no one is talking about the issue but the protest itself.

a reply to: loam

But lets be honest: for most of us it was our grandparents or great grandparents who actually risked life and limb for our country. All since have risked life and limb for the profits of a bunch of rich codgers willing to send meat into the gristmill.

Its been a looooooong time since the US butted into a conflict justifiably.

A lot of people seem to be offended that other people are offended because players kneel during the anthem.

a reply to: intrepid

I'm sure other means of protest, not involving the flag or anthem, could produce a similar outcome-- perhaps with a better result.

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

I don't disagree at all.

But I wouldn't make the point at the precise moment a folded flag is handed to a family member.

originally posted by: loam
a reply to: intrepid

I'm sure other means of protest, not involving the flag or anthem, could produce a similar outcome-- perhaps with a better result.

They have been but the reaction to it has been between indifference to hostility.

a reply to: TinySickTears

I think it is disrespectful on more than one level.
Since it is common practice to stand for the National Anthem, I do find it disrespectful.

It also disrespects the fans, the teams and the NFL.
These people are paid to play football, not to make political statements.

a reply to: TinySickTears

Whom is of greater value from YOUR "insides"?
Players are ONLY entertainers regardless of whatever life sacrifices they hold of value ,THEY ARE ALREADY PAID for their performances.
We as vets are the SIN EATERS for you, and ask for honor.
We get pissed when some cultural crap rolls in and whips out the "AntiAmerica Game" to make the latest point, THAT flag and song are over my dead friends,not a DAMN form of activism.

a reply to: intrepid

That's odd. I don't recall any of them refusing to take interviews that didn't include an opportunity to champion the cause...or refuse appearances where they would not be permitted to do the same.

These guys had a fantastic opportunity to make people listen in a way that would have been far more effective. They were idolized and could have used that social capital to persuade and encourage national change.

Instead, they took the low road and chose to offend.

originally posted by: cavtrooper7
a reply to: TinySickTears

Whom is of greater value from YOUR "insides"?
Players are ONLY entertainers regardless of whatever life sacrifices they hold of value ,THEY ARE ALREADY PAID for their performances.
We as vets are the SIN EATERS for you, and ask for honor.
We get pissed when some cultural crap rolls in and whips out the "AntiAmerica Game" to make the latest point, THAT flag and song are over my dead friends,not a DAMN form of activism.

not saying you are wrong for the way you feel because you wont but there are other vets out there that feel the opposite way. kind of the point of the thread

and to be fair i never asked anyone to 'eat sins' for me
please dont lay that trip on me

For some reason the kneel doesn't bother me.

I think if I saw people sitting on their a$$.

I'd help them up...

a reply to: TinySickTears

No one specific person or group decides that something is disrespectful. That comes down to each person. I think what you're instead referring to is the shouting matches in the media.

From what I've read of media and how stories propagate, in most cases you can run a story and have it seem credible if 1% of the general population agrees with your point of view. A story will gain mass media appeal and seem like everyone agrees at 10%.

In a situation like this, which has been framed by those with the loudest voices as a binary decision, you basically create a 50/50 environment, which is well above 10% for each crowd, so echo chambers form and each side hears a lot of reinforcing media that they're right.

If we step away from the media though, it really just comes down to a bunch of individual decisions. And I think that at the root of the matter, the decision before even deciding if it is or isn't disrespectful, is if people should care. This has been going on for a year or two now, and no one cared. It was only after it became a political issue that people started caring.

So my default is that this doesn't matter, no one cared, and in a couple weeks from now no one will care again (but most will walk away assuming they won and that the battle is over). For most people though, I don't think it's even a matter of if it's disrespectful or not. I think most people put this through a filter of "I would/wouldn't do this to protest" and decide that whatever action they take is the path of no disrespect, because those individuals weren't thinking of disrespect in the first place, but instead only of their cause.

originally posted by: NotTheCIA
Yes, they are disrespectful, but only to those who are offended to a disrespectful level.

It's established in the flag code however that kneeling to the flag isn't disrespectful. That's the whole reason they started to kneel in the first place instead of just remaining seated.

Another similar conversation is flag paraphernalia. Is a Flag Fanny pack disrespectful?

I think it is. It goes against the flag code, but more than that I think it's turning something into a commodity that shouldn't be. I also include things in here like the flag pins that are part of the Republican uniform.

Is someone wearing 'too much' USA things disrespectful out of irony?

You could argue disrespectful, but more than that I think it's just tacky, it's an affront to the fashion gods. Our flag simply does not look good on clothing. Furthermore, I think wearing clothes that specifically reinforce your patriotism is just gaudy. It's like the guy who shows up to a classy restaurant wearing one of those tshirts that looks like a tux or a suit.

To be blunt, this isn't just about standing for the anthem essentially. It's more.

Well, unfortunately... when something hits mass media, the nuance is lost. Why people were protesting is no longer the question, what people are protesting isn't even the same thing anymore. You have some players protesting racism, but others are protesting simply because they don't like the President exceeding his authority and telling them what to do. Most of what's happening now has nothing to do with the message, the message isn't even being discussed. It's purely a matter of defiance of the Presidents wishes.

a reply to: DontTreadOnMe

Standing for the anthem isn't "playing football", it's a "political statement".

Not as controversial as kneeling, but all the same.

originally posted by: TinySickTears
i suspect a good deal of it is fake) by these players kneeling. they say it is disrespectful.

thanks

Well. You kneel before the king, and you kneel before the queen.

So, kneeling before the flag or anthem is just as respectful.

I think the players are kneeling to suggest that we have a King in the White House,

but The Donald doesn't want people to know he's the Freemason King, otherwise called the Grand Master.

Donald is trying to hide behind the label "President" to fool the people, and the players are calling him out.

That's why Donald is upset.

a reply to: Masterjaden

No, the President is getting involved and trying to silence the protesters. That is a violation of free speech, and what has in effect pushed so many more to protest. They're not protesting the original cause, they're protesting the fact that the government is leveraging pressure to silence it's critics.

a reply to: AMPTAH

Seems too premeditated on all counts. I doubt that.

Kneeling was the least offensive reaction to 'not standing', and why it was specifically chosen.

That didn't stop the snowflakes however.

My opinion.