Help, Please?

This is probably going to be a little different than what you're used to reading on ATS. In fact, if you look at my post history I usually just post some videos of where I live or talk about some mundane things. Tonight was different for me. I went out like I normally do, but I saw a different side of my town than I normally do. I parked in a different spot and that changed everything.

You've heard of homeless people, but have you ever seen what it's like for them to be homeless? I mean, have you ever seen them trying to go to sleep under a bridge, or trying to cook something on a #-lit fire? It is quite humbling.

Now, there are no doubt some of you who have been homelesss and know what I am talking about and there are some of you who wouldn't or couldn't ever understand, but even typing this, I am still in shock with what I saw. What peeople are willing to do to get by. I know what addiction is, I know what it is to struggle,. They had their own subculture going on and the outsiders wer the intrusion.

Seeing this subculture surprised me, maybe more than it should have. There was one guy who seemed to be the king. . . now, I know some of you are going to ask me "how did you know this guy", or "Why didn't you just keep your head down and get out of there?". The truth is, I was leaving and keeping my head down, but this dude was also approaching me.

He was trying to sell me drugs = shocker! Anyway I ended up seeing the people, all jacked up sleeping on the sidewlks of my town. Truth is, they were probaably on drugs or were being controlled by them somehow and. . . it made me sick. That's why I am writing to you guys about it. What can I do to really try and change this? I would like to help these people but they've made their choice, but is there anything I cn do to maybe make sure thaat others don't end up on the street like them? Have any of you tried fix something similar?

I know my typing is jacked up, so please excuse it, but I hope someone will give me insight. . . I'd love to make my place a better place, not only for me, but for the people being ruled by ____.

a reply to: esteay812


Find some homeless somewhere else to help. Sounds like you stumbled onto a homeless camp who is pushing illegal substances for a local drug dealer for food/cash. If they are being fed, by trying to help them you just might be considered a threat to their food supply and really be putting yourself in danger.


Just my 2 cents...

It is horrible without a doubt and your compassion is clear, but alas you can't help those that won't help themselves
There are a few homeless near where I live, but to be honest some of them actually LIKE being homeless either that or they are just so used to it they couldn't go back to how things were

a reply to: seeker1963

That's what I thought, Seeker, but this is the homeless pop. around here. I'm telling you, it's not good and I wonder why the cops let it get like this.

a reply to: esteay812

You could start working with the homeless?

I worked with them a couple of years. i worked as a duty officer at 4 places at the same time. Sometimes I worked for four days without coming home, sleeping in, but there was little sleep because some craziness was always going on night and day. It was the most draining care work I did and the last. It ruined my own health psychologically and mentally and I ended up being nearly a client, too. I have not worked properly since. The bullying from other staff and management was phenomenal.

This is what happened to me:

I worked at a Council hostel for more vulnerable people. it was okay, but a few office and managerial head games going on.

Worked at a private probation hostel with probationed sex offenders an another one for mental health related probationed offenders. Really hard work and the staff were creepier than the clients; bullying, theft from the clients, staff telling lies about each other, et c.

Worked at the inner City Night Shelter: Totally bullied and by that time very poorly myself. Got laid into by management, etc. Lots of corruption and weird # going down between clients and staff.

Yeah, you could do that, but in the UK it will be a big sacrifice of your own well being as it stands (I bet it hasn't changed THAT much).

You could write to MPs and other government/council and express your horror that they allow this to happen.

You could do charity work. You could just talk to these people if they want to talk with you. relate and communicate, but be careful as there are a lot of psychic vampires (very needy and chaotic people indeed). They are not all cute. They can be very very very manipulative. People who have been psychologically damaged learn great manipulation skills to defend themselves with as a response to earlier abuses.

If I was homeless I would dose myself up with mind and emotion numbing chemicals, too, as it is a vile way to NOT LIVE. It is not living. I would rather kill myself than ever be homeless. In fact, I would.

I feel metaphorically homeless in this world any way. I do control my own pain "herbally". He's not the king, He is just "Dr Filth keeping his world inside of a leather cup", not a lot worse than the booze sellers, to be frank.

If you mess with people's heads like sexually abuse them or bully them when they are kids or if they have to suffer bad break ups (losing parents one way or another) then I'm afraid this will happen. It is a SYMPTOM of other causes. This king is not the enemy as you see him. They want their doctor there who ease their pain, believe it.

a reply to: PhyllidaDavenport

Phyllida, I think I want to do something. . . in fact, I know I will, but I wonder if anything can be done when there is such a strong subculture and the cops/govm't have already let it get that way. Maybe I'd just be wasting my time?

a reply to: Revolution9

Well, I've been trying to think it through - as in, what could I do?


I've come to the conclusion that helping the actual homeless people first hand really won't make much a difference - no offense - and thanks for everything you've done. I think the only real way to change what is going on is from within the local government. Somehow I have to get in there and make them hear me or make them acknowledge how bad it has become. . . there must be some way.

originally posted by: esteay812
a reply to: PhyllidaDavenport

Phyllida, I think I want to do something. . . in fact, I know I will, but I wonder if anything can be done when there is such a strong subculture and the cops/govm't have already let it get that way. Maybe I'd just be wasting my time?

This is in the UK, but honestly when you get involved in all that it really takes its toll. Children's homes could be sooo corrupt as we know.

I would be too scared to work for any institution now. I get too bullied because I am bipolar. That is why I have to keep away because people can't help but hurt me. Luckily I have great survival skills and very bright. I live as a hermit with a lovely home I have made. It is a gentle sanctuary. I had to kick all the problems out; people who were constantly sabotaging my life. Since they have gone away everything is going fine. It was not me who was the problem. Even family have been kicked out for a time because they treated me so badly just for being different and individual. They constantly battered me emotionally to fit in with their ideas, but I can't. It led me to have a serious break down where I nearly died.

Nothing you can do, you don't have that kind of power. Speaking from someone who is in recovery, until one is ready nothing can change that person, including the love of their own children. Your comparison is beautiful, I get it. Pray for them, any help at this point is just enables them to continue on this path of misery

This is a subculture that have chosen to live like this and now have no out. Compassionate you are, and it is sad beyond words, unless our culture decides to reach out in a real world way, there are no answers. And there are those who choose this lifestyle and refuse help.

We are a free country and every person has the right to choose how to live-be it jail or evntual,death from drugs and/or the environment. It breaks a caring person's heart.

If a person really wanted out of this system, there are a number of options, but basically there really isn't as much partnership between government and private organizations to control this extremely sad problem-and the undergrowth of illegal drugs is the biggest problem-not discounting psychological illnesses who deserve our best care and help.

You are kind to care. You could start by investigating government and private programs. Any little thing you could do would help as long as you understand the systemic failures and don't allow it to depress you personally.

I feel there isn't much you can do. There was a point in my life long ago when I was homeless. I never was a part of a sub culture like you describe... just basically living out of my jeep.

My homelessness came from my own bad decisions and I knew that while I was homeless.

Anyway... I know it would be tough for you to turn a blind eye. It affects you. It affected me to the point that my wife and I, years and years later started thinking of setting up a place like a Day Room in the military. Where homeless vets could get a meal, have a place to rest during the day, play a game of pool or watch a movie. Even had my mother on board to play cards (she loves playing cards and board games) with veterans. Even had a place we were negotiating for.

Then MS came into my life and changed everything.

It does affect you. Makes you want to DO SOMETHING.

The only thing I could advise is that the subculture you ran across should not be enabled. It could also be dangerous to you. Just be careful if you wish to proceed.

There will always be homeless people in any society and for the most part the homeless are more comfortable where they are even if it is destructive. One person that I met on my homeless times was a chemical engineer that got tired of living like (what he called) Happy Valley Sunday. It was his choice to go homeless. He said he was happier.

Different strokes for different folks I guess.

I'm rambling... don't know what else to tell you.

a reply to: esteay812

I wish you luck. I have written thousands of letters. It is a terrible thing. I understand why it hurts you so to see it.

However, do not damage your own life trying to help others. We can only help others if they will agree to our ground rules about what we can give and what we cannot. Chaotic people find ground rules very difficult to adhere to.

Yes, a good manager (but a hard one) once told me that It is all about choice. He believed that most of the clients had made lifestyle choices along the way that brought them to the door of hostels and homelessness.

There are hostels available. they are not very nice to live in. The vulnerable people do get taken advantage of terribly. It is only a microcosm of society at large. Big society does the same thing. Those adverts that get people with so little money to spend it all on gaming are just as bad as "King Dr Filth".

Please do try though if you can, but please know that you must protect yourself and your interests, too. It's a common liberal mistake to make to go try healing the world and end up being destroyed by what you tried to help.

Christ did not say go out and get destroyed trying to help a sinner. I used to think that He was meaning that. His sacrifice was different. he is not asking us to die for humanity. He wants us to help and he said the best way to do that is to give someone a drink of water or a shirt or a meal or even a little cash. Even tell them about Christ as really I think He can rescue people better than any psychiatrist (in my experience at least).

I don't think anyone should be homeless. It is a denial of a fundamental human need for shelter: Maslow's "Hierarchy of Needs" clearly states this:

a reply to: Revolution9

I am very touched by your humanity and real life experiences and wanting to help the homeless.

I have worked with several programs to house, feed and take care of homeless families, especially children. It just about did me in; depressed me so much-I had to be told by many people I could only effect so much and then had to let go.

It hurts still to think about it-these days I just do what I can and try not to let destroy my own life.

a reply to: esteay812


You can donate items/money to homeless shelters. It is the safest way.

being on a site that is kinda synonymous with the types of things you hear from people having mental breakdowns, my advice to you: become headstrong, choose rational discussions and argue like crazy with high IQ Jews. Your mental fortitude will then become that which might be the only thing that keeps you from blowing your brains out.

best thing to do though for real, stay away from them. Give them cash, if they ask you while you go about your life.
If you catch one that has olive skin and golden eyes: Make sure you give them a nice amount of cash, and treat them like gods.

a reply to: esteay812

Engage them in chat and ask if there's something you can do, besides from money. A warm beanie, pair of gloves and socks, little things help a lot.

originally posted by: KTemplar
a reply to: esteay812
You can donate items/money to homeless shelters. It is the safest way.

I donate to a local organization that works with those that show an interest in getting back on their feet.

Having spent years working with, and for the poor and the homeless, I have learned that there are some that make a business out of those that are needy. Whether it is in the UK, the US, or any other country, where you find the needy, you will find vultures.

The homeless come in huge varieties. From those with addictions, which are the hardest to help, because their drive and motivation is all wrapped up into getting their substance of choice, to people either by error or misfortune, find themselves destitute.

There is no one size fits all solution. If you want to help, help those that want help. Work with the grassroots organizations that are working directly with the needy. Avoid the larger organizations that make a profit off the needy. Personally, I feel if they can afford a billboard or a TV ad, then most likely the bulk of the donations are not going to the needy.

a reply to: esteay812
Yes, I see them every single day, and the pleasant surprise dumps they take in pubic tend to ruin my view occasionally. I think they finally filled that dude up with enough meds though the last time they arrested and released him from the hospital.

The best you can do is do some kind of project to rehabilitate the land they are on for commercial value that can add jobs and then the authorities can clear them off by law with threat of arrest. They linger there because its a forgotten spot. Put a light and some value on it and they are forced to disperse. Nothing you do will ever reach them. You may end up burning yourself out in the process. many of those people you saw are at a state in their lives where no good intentions will register as anything more than a hindrance and irritation to their routine.

They may listen to you evangelize for a little bit if they think your going to present food or money at the end and make promises of getting their life on track. They will forget who you are the next day unless you are a repeat visitor though and any promises they made go with the sun.

Lost people are lost because they are not ready for help. You can scout for some who may seem legit ready to pull up and out of their rut, but you won't find many. And even then, sometimes they are just playing along waiting for an opportunity to cut and run with whatever scraps they intended to run off with.

You may just have to accept, some people want to just crawl into their hole and be forgotten by the world. But don't take my word for it, go out and there and speak to them. I did for years, still do when I am riding bike. Most of them will not be able to respond to you with any type of plan for returning to the civilized world, nor are they really in a hurry to. Just don't carry yourself like a scared little chickling and you should not have any issue with the pushers or the thieves. Females are advised not to go alone, or with a little sissy man. A gay best friend could work if they are sassy enough.

Stick your nose in where it's not wanted and you may get it cut off, literally.

originally posted by: Justso
a reply to: Revolution9

I am very touched by your humanity and real life experiences and wanting to help the homeless.

I have worked with several programs to house, feed and take care of homeless families, especially children. It just about did me in; depressed me so much-I had to be told by many people I could only effect so much and then had to let go.

It hurts still to think about it-these days I just do what I can and try not to let destroy my own life.

Cool! You KNOW. See, it's not just me saying it. It is more draining than nursing. I have done both. All care work is the hardest work to do. It's messy, there are no clear boundaries, it's depressing and often working forwards and going backwards.

Certain of the homeless are kind of naughty, but it's not their fault if you know what I mean.

Yes, there are some who are just homeless for a short time. Often and mostly, the councils and charities will get them a home. It's never a good idea to blanket people together. The reasons for homelessness are as many as the people experiencing homelessness.

To see and experience a person without a home is really hard to take because deep down we know how we would feel in the same position. When people are homeless it is nigh on impossible to stay organised and you are very vulnerable at those times.

Yes, you sound very compassionate, too. At least we gave it a go. I wonder if many people these days do stay very long on the front line working with the homeless?

Care work isn't rewarded properly in terms of wages. These people are carrying civilization on their backs quite literally, working with the most precious thing of all...HUMAN BEINGS. I did all that work, went home to an empty little rented flat in a very needy area. I would go home and cry. In the end I was just crying all the time and crumbling. There was NOBODY there for me to listen to the woes of my shift. With no support and working such long hours I was on borrowed time. I think subconsciously I was having one last burn and wanted to go out with a bang from that work life I had been leading in one form or another most of my adult life. I worked with just about every client group between 1989 and 2005 with a three year break of college and university.

Yes, it still hurts and sometimes at emotional things I still cry. I am not a cry baby. Soldiers do this, too, when they remember the emotional traumas of what they saw in terms of human suffering.

It doesn't help when you have filled your life up with altruism and then you are left with a broken heart. You then feel guilty and useless because there were many times when you failed at helping a person, because you are only human.

Yeah, ONLY HUMAN! I am haunted by some of the things I tried to do but did not do correctly. Had a young guy who I liked die on my watch in a hostel (happens often of course). I had to represent the council in court at the inquest and explain to his Mom that there was nothing we could have done better to help her son. Another guy I was keyworker to disappeared and the police found him at a quarry. He had killed himself. How lonely was the end of that guy's life. Worse, too, he came to me telling me he could not cope. I was trying to give him ideas about what he could do with not much money.

I cared for two guys. Both of them died. I was working privately for a family caring for a guy with Alzheimer's in his own home. He got too poorly and had to go onto the ward. The family asked me to continue to care for him on the ward as his private nurse. I did this, but the hospital kept trying to sabotage me. I was like being torn down the middle between the family and the hospital. The hospital tried to tell the family it might be me making him behave funny (they wanted me away you see). The family thought they were being absurd because we had become very close and they knew me. I kept back for a time so they could see clearly it was not me, which of course it was not. I could not go back because they distrusted me and that's pointless. He died just a few days later.

I cared for a younger biker guy who could only use one hand out of all his limbs because of very severe MS. We had a kind of fun together. He was stubborn and your typical biker, but very likeable. His family were using him to get money and a mini bus (mobility allowance; this guy was huge you see). He knew it. He told me he wanted to go in a home rather than have to go back to them if his care package for independent community living could no longer support him because his needs became too great. His dad started shouting at me so i had to leave. They were very rough cockney types from the East End of London. His Dad was huge like his son. He was mighty hard to move around. I did my back in several times despite all the training and equipment. Again, he died a few days after I left because the new carer did not know how to give him that level of nursing care. He was by that time at death's door.

I had a weird way of keying into the psyche of the clients I worked with. I was actually able to keep them living, may be too well. Once when the guy with Alzheimer's had to go in for major brain surgery he got totally panicked in his confusion (wouldn't anyone). He suddenly remembered that he had been through it all years before with the brain surgery he had at another time. There was a transference thing happened where I saw through his eyes and felt the emotions as he felt them. It was really horrible and after that experience I was done for: I became far too client centred for my own good. That psyche phenomenon does happen. Many care workers and nurses have heard of it happening. It is like you become that person; the imprint of their emotions and their vision become your's just for a brief second. Wow!

Yes, that and all the bodily excretions you have to clean up, all the meeting of personal hygiene needs, all the chores. You know, humans are only built to carry one individual. One adult carrying two is huge stress in all ways. That is obvious.