In Defense of Taking the Knee

Outside of ATS, my only other vice in life is sports. I'm what you would consider a die-hard religious fanatic -- minus the face paint and crazy antics. Though I like to stay discreet about it, sports plays quite the significant role in my life, so to see politics seep in at this level is really disheartening. Sports at its core, though highly competitive, is all about inclusivity and bringing people from all walks of life together, where they can forget about the realities of the world for a moment and cheer on their favorite team. Win, lose or draw; there is always something valuable to take away. Politics on the other hand, even though there are some parallels, is the complete opposite of all things mentioned. Right off the bat (pun), that presents a major conflict of interest, that in my opinion, cannot be overcome or overlooked, and is the sole reason why I believe sports and politics should never mix. But alas, like almost everything in life now, politics has found its way in and turned what was once an inclusive get-together into a divisive platform.

Having said all that, even though I hate what is going on, I totally support what these athlete's are doing. When I decided I was going to be a champion for free speech, I understood exactly what came with it; the good, the bad and the ugly. I've said over and over that context should never matter, and I'm not going to start being hypocritical now. Above all else, absolute freedom of speech is by far the most valuable (priceless) commodity in a world where your rights are increasingly being taken away from you. It's the 1st for a reason.

Now, whether they are being disrespectful to the flag or not, to me is moot. I will even give these athlete's the benefit of the doubt and say their gestures are sincere and their intentions are in the right place. But that doesn't mean I support their message, as I believe their true intentions -- like every other protest -- are buried within the mass hysteria. At best it's futile, and at worst destructive - but almost always perpetually disingenuous.

But guess what? They're well within their rights so I'll support it either way.

Just like Donald Trump has the right to voice his opinion on the matter, just like you have the right to voice your displeasure of his opinion, just like you have the right to be a hypocrite while calling others hypocrites, just like you have the right to be outraged at whatever your little heart desires. See how this freedom thing works?

To be fair, I honestly don't understand the outrage coming from either side. Both sides are being hypocrites. I understand there is a lot of pride among some of you and the thought of someone disrespecting your country means a lot, but don't let your emotions turn you into what you've been trying to fight. Let them have their little protest.

As for everyone else, hopefully the blatant double standards are now glaringly obvious and your own hypocrisy has taken a look into the mirror. Will the double standards yet again rear its ugly end the next time around?

I won't hold my breath, but I will exercise my freedom of speech and call every single one of you out..


VIVA LA FREEDOM!!!

You are free too take a dump into your morning oatmeal.
Just know there will be repercussions.

I quite agree with you and actually think this is a very dignified symbol of protest. Or ... you could look at it as a supplication to the Divine (insert your own higher power) for racial equality throughout society.

It's not harming anyone, or tying to force anyone, it's just publicly stating a conviction.

Kudos on the thread.

Has anyone defined what the players are protesting when they take a knee?

Are they protesting just for the sake of protesting "something"?

Can they not just state what they are displeased about and have a rational conversation?

Freedom of expression and protest isn't without its own consequences. NFL is a private corp. They can do what they want. I don't like it and guess what? I don't have to accept it if I choose not to and will protest it within my own means legally.

VIVA LA FREEDOM to you too

originally posted by: skunkape23
You are free too take a dump into your morning oatmeal.
Just know there will be repercussions.

I agree with your analogy--they are kinda biting the hand that feeds.

When you become a pro athlete you are generally agreeing to act like a role model for the fans and organization you signed on with.

It's not the proper venue to protest, and they only risk alienating fans.

If they want to send a message, then sit out the game, or retire to champion their cause.

Oh, naw the message isn't THAT serious, nope, take a knee and then game on

They can take a knee, a dump or act like crybabies but not disrespect the country that feeds them, I choose not to watch those SOB or give my money to the NFL. the end

originally posted by: knowledgehunter0986
But guess what? They're well within their rights so I'll support it either way.

They're well within their right, for sure. My wife and I are both veterans, and we could care less if someone doesn't stand for the national anthem or salute the flag. Hell, I honestly wish that they'd quit making pro sports so "yay America!" and just make it about the sport, which is why we tune in to watch.

That said, though, I think that everyone, including the players, need to remember that they are working for a private company, and in doing so, their employer can tell them what they can or cannot do while "on the clock," especially at games. And I think that this reality is what Trump was citing--I think that he finds it disheartening that owners and the NFL as a controlling body doesn't somehow limit or control their players better.

But, again, I could care less what these people believe or how they feel they should protest any cause, as long as it's not directly affecting me in a negative way--but, like you, I'm disappointed how it's ruining the enjoyment of the sport(s) at the moment, and I hope that it's a fad that fades away quickly.

And these players better be ready to be told how to act while in uniform, because from what I understand, ratings and income for the NFL are suffering in a noticeable way, which many attribute to the politicizing of the sport (to use the NFL as a timely example).

originally posted by: MrPitts
Freedom of expression and protest isn't without its own consequences. NFL is a private corp. They can do what they want. I don't like it and guess what? I don't have to accept it if I choose not to and will protest it within my own means legally.

VIVA LA FREEDOM to you too

Exactly right.

Freedom is a two way street. I have never suggested that they don't have a right to take a knee, however, this doesn't free them or the NFL from the consequences of their expression. I will not support the disrespect of my country and because of this I am boycotting the NFL until which time they decide to take action.

If they don't I won't be back. Vote with your dollars.

Am I the only one who could give a rats a** what players do or don't do?

Am I the only one who seriously does not care about this or sports at all?

What the he77 are you people doing still watching sports any way or concerning yourselves with watching people play a game. Is life that good for you that you all have that sort of spare time?

a reply to: knowledgehunter0986

I agree that they are free to do so.
I just won't watch football while they do it.





I agree that Kathy Griffin is free to hold a model of the head of Trump.
But I won't buy tickets to her show.

I agree that people are free to hold KKK rally's.
But I will never attend one.

I agree that BLM can march and say whatever they want.
But I won't be marching with them.

I agree that a Missouri state senator is free to hope that Trump will be assassinated.
But I won't be joining her.

I agree that Antifa are free to say what they want.
But I won't wear a mask in solidarity.

I agree that women can march on Washington DC and are free to say what they want.
But I won't be wearing a ridiculous hat in their support.

I agree that ESPN can say anything they want about our president.
But I won't be watching their programs.

I agree that protesters are free to spit on the US flag.
But I'll only turn away in disgust.

originally posted by: Metallicus

originally posted by: MrPitts
Freedom of expression and protest isn't without its own consequences. NFL is a private corp. They can do what they want. I don't like it and guess what? I don't have to accept it if I choose not to and will protest it within my own means legally.

VIVA LA FREEDOM to you too

Exactly right.

Freedom is a two way street. I have never suggested that they don't have a right to take a knee, however, this doesn't free them or the NFL from the consequences of their expression. I will not support the disrespect of my country and because of this I am boycotting the NFL until which time they decide to take action.

If they don't I won't be back. Vote with your dollars.

It's not 'my country'; it's 'our country'.

I disagree.
I manage a restaurant, and it is specifically written into my contract that I may not protest, demonstrate, etc. while on the clock, nor in any way that would represent my company (uniform, basically).
We are franchise owned.

I can do whatever I want on my own time, without repressenting my company.

All of these players can protest whatever they want, on their own time.
While on the franchise' dime and time, they are subject to franchise rules.

It's on the owners to make the call, though.
They're lack of action shows where they stand, which is their right, also.

a reply to: knowledgehunter0986

Well said, sir.

Personally I don't see how kneeling for the anthem is any more than a protest against standing for the anthem, but dealing with the stupidity inherent in most expressions is important for free speech.

originally posted by: FyreByrd

originally posted by: Metallicus

originally posted by: MrPitts
Freedom of expression and protest isn't without its own consequences. NFL is a private corp. They can do what they want. I don't like it and guess what? I don't have to accept it if I choose not to and will protest it within my own means legally.

VIVA LA FREEDOM to you too

Exactly right.

Freedom is a two way street. I have never suggested that they don't have a right to take a knee, however, this doesn't free them or the NFL from the consequences of their expression. I will not support the disrespect of my country and because of this I am boycotting the NFL until which time they decide to take action.

If they don't I won't be back. Vote with your dollars.

It's not 'my country'; it's 'our country'.

Thanks for sharing, but I don't assume everyone is American.

originally posted by: knowledgehunter0986
But alas, like almost everything in life now, politics has found its way in and turned what was once an inclusive get-together into a divisive platform.

Having said all that, even though I hate what is going on, I totally support what these athlete's are doing.

I feel the same way about professional music, since I was a professional musician for quite some time.
I dare say the big difference is that many bands and artists simply jumped on the bandwagon regardless of any cause, while who was I to presume that at the time?
For the ball players though, things are a little closer to home, and what does the anthem stand for, I don't know, but in the protest they are kneeling together, and as far as I can see, Trumps remarks will only make their resolve even more. Trump overtly telling the mostly white people who own these teams to fire those black players, and/or any player who supports that protest, does not sound good at all, and he should be ignored, while for the players, should their protest be seen as political? It's not like they are asking for government change, it's more about police behaviour, which is really OTT in many cases, and that methodology seems different all depending on where you live.

I don't think the NFL, players, coaches, owners are to worried about any repercussions. The short term memory of Americans leaves something to be desired. It will be soon forgotten as Trump finds another scape goat with his tweets.
And photo op crowd ego boosts appearances.

Demonizing Hillary is always a good option and the Mexicans are always close and handy for Trump to dump on.

Most of the hard core football fans I know are gamblers more concerned about the spread and best line than a few players expressing themselves.

Politics isn't even part of the equation to the hard core sports better.

a reply to: knowledgehunter0986

I agree they have the right, I still feel like it's a slap in the face to veterans, but that freedom is what they all did what they did to protect. (which is why it's particularly abrasive in my eyes) I just think there is a much better way to get the message across. And if they chose to send this message this way, their owners will have to suffer the lost income to support their players. I can't see that lasting very long, and if it lasts more than a few weeks, the already short attention span of regular folks might just forget about the NFL altogether. They will be like the NHL in Barbados.

originally posted by: smurfy

originally posted by: knowledgehunter0986
But alas, like almost everything in life now, politics has found its way in and turned what was once an inclusive get-together into a divisive platform.

Having said all that, even though I hate what is going on, I totally support what these athlete's are doing.

I feel the same way about professional music, since I was a professional musician for quite some time.
I dare say the big difference is that many bands and artists simply jumped on the bandwagon regardless of any cause, while who was I to presume that at the time?
For the ball players though, things are a little closer to home, and what does the anthem stand for, I don't know, but in the protest they are kneeling together, and as far as I can see, Trumps remarks will only make their resolve even more. Trump overtly telling the mostly white people who own these teams to fire those black players, and/or any player who supports that protest, does not sound good at all, and he should be ignored, while for the players, should their protest be seen as political? It's not like they are asking for government change, it's more about police behaviour, which is really OTT in many cases, and that methodology seems different all depending on where you live.

you just made this a racial issue? Why the # would you do that? It has nothing to do with race. It's the NFL, kind of a melting pot of sports.

The fans side of things.

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