Irreducible complexity and Evolution

a reply to: Noinden

Yep. Their “god” made us faulty.

He/she/it must be a complete moron of a god too. Why the living hell would you make the food hole in the same place as the air hole?! And barely protected too!

a reply to: Noinden

We're supposed to eat fish.
I guess.

a reply to: TerryDon79

We also have that Vitamin C issue too Clearly their deity hated Humans.

a reply to: Noinden

Apples don't have much ascorbic acid. Hmmm.

a reply to: Phage

Yeah that would play royal hell with my gout if I was not careful. Clearly their god hates humans. I mean thus far we have seen that trace minerals shortages are bad, we don't make vitamin C. Lets not get into Vitamin D, and well all these mutations.

Jehovah is a wanker well and true!

a reply to: Phage

I am sure we could cross one with an Orang (or Kiwi fruit) and solve that issue Though early versions in other Semitic faiths had I think a Pommegrannate rather than an apple being consumed. But Christianity had to be all bland

originally posted by: Noinden
a reply to: TerryDon79

We also have that Vitamin C issue too

Clearly their deity hated Humans.

Don’t forget about vit D. Another one we need, but don’t create unless in sunlight.

In the UK we don’t get enough sun between October and March to make enough vit D either.

ETA: I see you said to not mention vit D, but I mentioned it!

a reply to: Noinden
Pomegranates have a good dose of C. So God said, "Don't eat this, even though you can't live without it." That is deep. Seriously deep. Think about it. Does any known theology go there, or did I just come up with it?

My aunt had a pomegranate tree in her yard for years. As kids we had a great time throwing them at each other (caution, they stain). Not really that tasty though.

originally posted by: Noinden
a reply to: whereislogic

Because repeated comments can never be correct can they? Don't be obtuse. Cooperton has repeatedly demonstrated that he (and I am assuming gender) does not understand Science, despite claiming degrees in Chemistry and Neuroscience.

Turn off insult-bot.exe for a minute and let's talk.

You have yet to respond to any of my posts with any indication that you understand the science I am presenting. We could keep it simple:

Muscle requires actin and myosin, among many, many other factors, to be able to contract. How could muscle have evolved in a piecewise manner if it requires the presence of both actin and myosin to function?

Let’s have a look at some serious flaws with this “designed” body.

Ectopic pregnancies. The fertilised egg implants itself into the Fallopian tube and can lead to death (before modern medicine, it normally DID lead to death of the baby and mother).

The birth canal passed through the pelvis. If the babies head is too big to fit, the baby gets stuck and has to be born through c section (Prior to modern medicine, this would normally lead to death for both baby and mother).

Mens testies initially develop in the abdomen. After they have migrated to the scrotum, they leave 2 weak areas in the abdomen wall where hernias can form (prior to modern medicine, complications from hernias could lead to death).

Congenital diseases and genetic disorders (such as Huntington’s Disease).

Yeah. Their “god” done a fantastic job lol.

a reply to: TerryDon79

Maybe we're just prototypes.

Maybe the production model is ... elsewhere.

a reply to: Noinden
Anyone here willing to respond to the facts discussed and cited at the top of page 47 other than with a "no citations" followed by something like "Quite mining isn't a citation." as used by peter vlar as a cop-out standardized ad hominem attack and red herring away from discussing the specific and relevant facts about the fossil record and genetics as discussed and cited on page 47.

..
In recent years, scientists have been able to compare the genetic codes of dozens of different single-celled organisms as well as those of plants and animals. They assumed that such comparisons would confirm the branching “tree of life” proposed by Darwin. However, this has not been the case.

What has the research uncovered? In 1999 biologist Malcolm S. Gordon wrote: “Life appears to have had many origins. The base of the universal tree of life appears not to have been a single root.” Is there evidence that all the major branches of life are connected to a single trunk, as Darwin believed? Gordon continues: “The traditional version of the theory of common descent apparently does not apply to kingdoms as presently recognized. It probably does not apply to many, if not all, phyla, and possibly also not to many classes within the phyla.” (Biology and Philosophy, “The Concept of Monophyly: A Speculative Essay,” by Malcolm S. Gordon, 1999, p. 335.)

Recent research continues to contradict Darwin’s theory of common descent. For example, in 2009 an article in New Scientist magazine quoted evolutionary scientist Eric Bapteste as saying: “We have no evidence at all that the tree of life is a reality.” (New Scientist, “Uprooting Darwin’s Tree,” by Graham Lawton, January 24, 2009, p. 34.)
The same article quotes evolutionary biologist Michael Rose as saying: “The tree of life is being politely buried, we all know that. What’s less accepted is that our whole fundamental view of biology needs to change.” (New Scientist, January 24, 2009, pp. 37, 39.)
It should be noted that neither the New Scientist article nor Bapteste nor Rose mean to suggest that the theory of evolution is wrong. Their point, rather, is that Darwin’s proposed tree of life, a mainstay of his theory, is not supported by the evidence. Such scientists still seek other explanations involving evolution.

What about the fossil record?

Many scientists point to the fossil record as support for the idea that life emerged from a common origin. They argue, for example, that the fossil record documents the notion that fish became amphibians and reptiles became mammals. What, though, does the fossil evidence really show?

“Instead of finding the gradual unfolding of life,” says evolutionary paleontologist David M. Raup, “what geologists of Darwin’s time, and geologists of the present day actually find is a highly uneven or jerky record; that is, species appear in the sequence very suddenly, show little or no change during their existence in the record, then abruptly go out of the record.” (Field Museum of Natural History Bulletin, “Conflicts Between Darwin and Paleontology,” by David M. Raup, January 1979, p. 23).

In reality, the vast majority of fossils show stability among types of creatures over extensive amounts of time. The evidence does not show them evolving from one type into another. Unique body plans appear suddenly. New features appear suddenly. For example, bats with sonar and echolocation systems appear with no obvious link to a more primitive ancestor.

In fact, more than half of all the major divisions of animal life seem to have appeared in a relatively short period of time. Because many new and distinct life forms appear so suddenly in the fossil record, paleontologists refer to this period as “the Cambrian explosion.” When was the Cambrian period?

Let us assume that the estimates of researchers are accurate. In that case, the history of the earth could be represented by a time line that stretches the length of a soccer field. At that scale, you would have to walk about seven eighths of the way down the field before you would come to what paleontologists call the Cambrian period. During a small segment of that period, the major divisions of animal life show up in the fossil record. How suddenly do they appear? As you walk down the soccer field, all those different creatures pop up in the space of less than one step!

The relatively sudden appearance of these diverse life forms is causing some evolutionary researchers to question the traditional version of Darwin’s theory. For example, in an interview in 2008, evolutionary biologist Stuart Newman discussed the need for a new theory of evolution that could explain the sudden appearance of novel forms of life. He said: “The Darwinian mechanism that’s used to explain all evolutionary change will be relegated, I believe, to being just one of several mechanisms​—maybe not even the most important when it comes to understanding macroevolution, the evolution of major transitions in body type.” (Archaeology, “The Origin of Form Was Abrupt Not Gradual,” by Suzan Mazur, October 11, 2008, www.archaeology.org/​online/ interviews/​newman.html, accessed 2/23/2009.)

Problems with the proof:

What, though, of the fossils that are used to show fish changing into amphibians, and reptiles into mammals? Do they provide solid proof of evolution in action? Upon closer inspection, several problems become obvious.

First, the comparative size of the creatures placed in the reptile-to-mammal sequence is sometimes misrepresented in textbooks. Rather than being similar in size, some creatures in the series are huge, while others are small.

A second, more serious challenge is the lack of proof that those creatures are somehow related. Specimens placed in the series are often separated by what researchers estimate to be millions of years. Regarding the time spans that separate many of these fossils, zoologist Henry Gee says: “The intervals of time that separate the fossils are so huge that we cannot say anything definite about their possible connection through ancestry and descent.” (In Search of Deep Time​—Beyond the Fossil Record to a New History of Life, by Henry Gee, 1999, p. 23.) Henry Gee does not suggest that the theory of evolution is wrong. His comments are made to show the limits of what can be learned from the fossil record. Unlike the rather definite statement made by Peter Vlar: "Looking at the fossil record shows clear* transitions from cytoplankton up through todays organisms and all those steps in between...."
...

*: synonyms for "factual" on thesaurus.com under the column:

adj. definite, certain

absolute
clear
clear-cut
conclusive
decisive
unambiguous

I'm not expecting a reasonable response or acknowledgements of any of the facts discussed above, probably also not that they are facts/certainties/truths or things that are true/certain/absolute/factual/correct, without error/definite/definitive.

To take a line of fossils and claim that they represent a lineage is not a scientific hypothesis that can be tested, but an assertion that carries the same validity as a bedtime story—amusing, perhaps even instructive, but not scientific.—Henry Gee (paleontologist, senior editor of Nature magazine)

Caveat: Propaganda isn't "instructive".

a reply to: Phage

Or, maybe god created us all in its image? That image being atoms and everything is god?

I can’t remember off the top of my head, but I think it’s pantheism or something. I know it’s an -ism lol.

a reply to: whereislogic

Got a link?

Or is it another thing from your cult?

originally posted by: TerryDon79
a reply to: whereislogic

Got a link?

Or is it another thing from your cult?

He posted multiple sources. Or are you just another insult-bot.exe?

a reply to: TerryDon79

Yes. It's from the Witnesses.

So, once again. Actual science vs. religious claims about actual science.

a reply to: cooperton

I want where he got that extract from.

If it’s from a religious cult site trying to disprove evolution, it holds no water.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: TerryDon79

Yes. It's from the Witnesses.

So, once again. Actual science vs. religious claims about actual science.

Yep, I found it.

Funny that a cult founded and still promoting lies is trying to say evolution is a lie lol.

originally posted by: TerryDon79
a reply to: cooperton

I want where he got that extract from.

If it’s from a religious cult site trying to disprove evolution, it holds no water.

So you're admittedly bias to the point of not even acknowledging other perspectives?

Regardless of who compiled it, they are referring to sources that are in science journals.

a reply to: cooperton

Not biased. I just refuse to read anything from religious sites who take things out of context.

(That would be every single one who try and say evolution is false, yet can’t disprove it)