Changing Education Paradigms

Just ran across this vid and found it enlightening and I thought it would be a nice topic for ATS. Education is the foundation for so much intellectually, culturally and economically, and yet it seems so antiquated against today's backdrop. What are some good answers to revamping the system? Well I suppose we should examine the beginning, intent and and shortcomings.

While watching videos lectures by Sir Ken Robinson, an internationally known education advisor, I came across this one. A good deal of it made me think more about the state of the school system in America and what we believe to be the “right” and “wrong” ways of teaching children. It is impossible for me to agree with absolutely everything he says, but he made some very powerful arguments that are worth considering. Plus, he speaks in an engaging, humorous way.

For those that can't view vid:
Transcript

The Premise:

Every country on earth at the moment is reforming public education. There are two reasons for it. The first of them is economic. People are trying to work out “how do we educate our children to take their place in the economies of the 21st century”? How do we do that, given that we can’t anticipate what the economy will look like at the end of next week as the recent turmoil is demonstrating? How do we do that?

The second, though, is cultural. Every country on earth is trying to figure out how do we educate our children so they have a sense of cultural identity and so that we can pass on the cultural genes of our communities while being part of the process of globalization; how do we square that circle? The problem is, they’re trying to meet the future by doing what they did in the past, and on the way they’re alienating millions of kids who don’t see any purpose in going to school. When we went to school, we were kept there with a story which is if you worked hard and did well, and got a college degree, you would have a job. Our kids don’t believe that! And they’re right not to, by the way. You’re better having a degree than not, but it’s not a guarantee anymore, and particularly not if the route to it marginalizes most of the things that you think are important about yourself. And so people say we have to raise standards if this is a breakthrough. You know, like, really? Yes! We should! Why would you lower them? I haven’t come across an argument that persuades me of lowering them. But raising them, of course we should raise them.

As I began responding to points in vid, I realized every direction I take has issues, and I can't come up with solid ideas that won't be chastised . This makes me realize just how complex coming up with solutions will be, especially the cultural aspects. Sure we can innovate classrooms, teaching methods,curriculum ect., but can we get along? Is the only answer a one world government, forcing a unification on all? Well it works in some sci-fi scenarios and may be inevitable at some point. The only one I would support is a transparent and altruistic one, but I 'm afraid trust is too far lost these days to put faith in such a system. Can democracy work, and the majority decide all? Should we remain culturally narcissistic?
Can we really honor all cultures and act accordingly? What a tangled web education change is and will be.

So...I guess I will just put this out there for others to ponder and read what you guys think about this, if anything. At the very least, I thought it was informative and entertaining.

Other Robinson Lectures

Sir Ken Robinson WEBSITE

a reply to: waftist

In the US, our federal government operates over budget with taxes being a heated debate.

Assuming we don't raise taxes, we'll have to take away from other areas to vamp education. Right now the US is roughly 25th in the world for education.... Yet number the number one spender on military, more than the next eight countries combined.

So there's that.

a reply to: waftist

A few weeks ago, I posted an idea I had for changing the testing system. I think that changing the way we test, and how we track student progress with those tests is the best way to improve our schools. We need to do a better job of identifying good job tracks for everyone. Rather than pushing everyone to college.

originally posted by: Aazadan
a reply to: waftist

A few weeks ago, I posted an idea I had for changing the testing system. I think that changing the way we test, and how we track student progress with those tests is the best way to improve our schools. We need to do a better job of identifying good job tracks for everyone. Rather than pushing everyone to college.

Agreed, except standardized testing is part of the problem.

I live in Virginia, the standardized test here is called the SOL, and may be the same in other states. The problem is, the SOL results are more for the grading of teachers than students. So the teachers will make their whole curriculum to aim at good test scores.

They'll breeze through subjects and make sure all bases are covered. The end result is critical thinking is absent from the classroom. The whole system is to make the best parrots.

a reply to: CriticalStinker

All testing has this issue. If you don't teach to the test, then what else are you going to teach to? That's why part of my idea involved using student history data to give each student a unique test that matched their abilities.

Rofl at 10:45 from the provided vid.

a reply to: waftist

Every country on earth is trying to figure out how do we educate our children so they have a sense of cultural identity and so that we can pass on the cultural genes of our communities while being part of the process of globalization; how do we square that circle?

In the US at least, there is no squaring that circle. One reason is the US is losing its cultural identity as people are forming different disparate "interest" groups based on each groups indvidual and distinct cultural identity. Thus education choices are being made to reinforce the cultural identities and belief systems of the different groups. Education in the US is no longer about nation building, its about group identity and survival. Catholics are splitting off into their own communities with their own education systems in pursuit of the "Benedict Option", seen by many as the only course of long term survival. The So. Baptists have been arguing for years to recommend they abandon the public school system. I dont know how they have resolved that issue. I have friends who identify as French Canadian. They and their friends homeschool where French is taught as the primary language and they use many of the Quebecois teaching materials. But for the rural areas support for public education seems to be dying. And even in the rural area I live in there are more specialty "charter" type schools and private schools than public campuses. The public HS cant even field a football team anymore.

As I see it these "intellectuals" are musing over a system thats slowly breaking apart.

a reply to: CriticalStinker

Pardon my hiatus folks, life and such...

Yes, I too would like to see more funding allocated towards education and the military budget seems like a good place to skim a bit from, but at the same time throwing money at the situation will only do so much. The paradigm needs revamping. I now realize there are two lines of thinking regarding this, one form a US perspective, involving our education system, and the second is more of a global education notion, as in what could be applied internationally to better education overall, and that is where some of the cultural challenges come in.

Perhaps we in the states could design something new and see how it works here,potentially being a modality than can work in other countries too. With all the criticism of our ed system here, it is still sought after by many from other countries.
Indeed our ranking is sub par, especially in math and science.

Some schools here in Oregon have began teaching algebra in first grade and many high schools require four years of algebra. Sounds like a good idea, make it as fundamentally familiar as anything else in the curriculum.

We have to reduce the gap between most and least successful students, for this is what separates the top education institutes from us. Now granted, those schools have fewer people and are more homogeneous cultures, but they also put more of their gdp towards education comparatively.

The US has some social and economic status challenges between student bodies, and that gap must be addressed, how, I don't know. Do we need a national program that is the same across the board with separate classes for those that struggle? Students that lag could be collectively taught in a separate class setting with teachers specifically designated to assist them and them only.

Another idea is to make school free to students and the door remains open for those that decide to continue or restart their education without worry of affordability. This applies to school beyond 1 though 12. So if tax increase is an answer, then yes imo

I feel that any change that comes, will be welcome by our people because most recognize both the importance of education and the fact that so many get left behind, which is not only unfair and disenchanting, but potentially socially destructive. Those that take great pride in our country, should support means to getting our place back as one of the best education countries in the world.


a reply to: Aazadan
Tracking eh? Sounds good to me, a more intimate relationship with each individual student to assure their progress and I think there should be more resources put towards these lagging students.
As far as jobs, yes more trade skills should be offered and taught at all schools. As fast as innovation is moving, it seems jobs will come with it, but at the same time technology is reducing jobs these days also. I guess tech jobs will remain in demand and medical fields seems strong. We are moving so fast too, that a new system must incorporate adaptability and flexibility to withstand the (r)evolution of technology. The next ten years will move so fast, and instilling something new now, has to be able to move and change with the times.

Could you link the idea you were talking about, thx.


a reply to: TonyS
Good points TonyS and yes the cultural aspect seems really tough, especially in our diverse country. That's both cultural and economical status variances too. Religion? Well that's another issue in itself I suppose, and will probably always be part of the establishment. We have to address the kids with learning disabilities, mental and behavioral issues and economic barriers.

I recall something called "school away from school" for these students as an effort to separate them and give them special attention. I would rather see all classes under the same umbrella, but with entire classrooms and resources devoted to these students, separating them to some degree, but keeping them in the mix of peers. Maybe that is impractical because of the way people judge and treat each other, so I don't know. As mentioned, incorporating trade skill options, equal to academic offerings, seems like a good idea. Perhaps a center at each school where some of these kids from bad homes can spend some of their leisure time to both learn and participate in a healthy environment. A place where they can feel of worth and taste success.

Culturally, maybe as mentioned, include every aspect of cultural diversity at every school, so that no one feels isolated. Allot a building for each religion, each culture, each language ect, but also bring them all together in other classes to share the same curriculum too. Man, this is tough and it makes me think that more discipline would have to be exercised on campuses. Unfortunately love and good intentions only go so far, someone needs to monitor and maintain peace somehow in this suggested unification.

So it brings up the idea of allowing a variety of schools for people to choose from, or consolidating all education under one umbrella. Granted the religious schools will always be an exception most likely, but outside of that, should we merge various approaches to each and every student into singular institutions, or encourage more diverse schools for people to choose from. I just don't know....

As far as cultural unity, I recall a vid about rat experiment: Yes I know we are not rats but the notion here may be of merit.

When forced together, it seems differences become secondary to co-existing in peace, simply by sharing in social activities, which makes me think of the idea of required military enrollment for all youth. Now the option to combat would remain voluntary, but the enrollment in a structured setting that demands, respect(both self and for others),pride, skills training/education, sharing and discovering similarities instead of just differences amongst each other. I feel that when individuals co-habitat, particularly in a productive and equalized setting, more people would get along than not.

Back when I was in elementary school (70s) we had some kind of program in 1st through 3rd grades that basically split the kids into 3 groups. (I didn't realize it at the time, but I see now it was so.) Each of our grades had 4 classrooms, and 2 classrooms in each grade were part of this program. These "special" classrooms had 2 teachers and a teachers' aide, and 3 groups of kids--1 for each of the adults.

One group were the average kids. They did normal grade-level stuff.

One group was the kids who needed extra help--not the special-ed kids, this was before the whole "mainstreaming" idea and the reeeally far behind kids were in special ed--but the kids who had the potential to keep up if they just had a little more 1-on-1. They got intensive instruction--and most of them caught up to the "average" kids in a year or 2.

The third group was the "smart" kids (this was also before the whole "gifted program" thing really took off) and they got much more advanced work and outside-of-the-box thinking projects.

I was in the "smart kids" group, and one of the things we got to do was work at our own pace. We could, for instance, read through our readers and do the accompanying workbook pages as fast as we wanted to. If we finished while 9/10 of the class was still on story #3, they'd hand us the next one and let us tear through it as fast as our little minds could absorb it. If we finished our math, we could do fun math-related activities (or if we liked math, more math worksheets etc.) Ditto with science. Spelling and handwriting were different; all 3 groups did those at the same pace.

We also had this amazing little library of booklets and activities with focuses on different areas, called the SRA...readers? SRA something. Each booklet was a little self-contained stand-alone lesson in a core content area, and we could use the SRA library if we got done with our work before the other kids--and we did. Bottom line: we never got bored, because we never had to slow down to the slowest person's speed, or even the average person's speed.

Then when we hit 4th grade, this program ended and everyone had to go at the same pace. BOOM. It was like a punch in the gut. No "working ahead." Nope, not allowed. Nothing like that till 7th grade, where we had "accelerated" English and math. Of course, everyone still had to learn at the same pace, but it wasn't quite as slow as the regular classes. Then once we hit high school, it was back to one-size-fits all.

In my opinion, one of the most important things we could do is stop putting everyone in one group. It does a huge disservice to the kids who struggle to keep up, and it does just as great a disservice to the bright kids. The ones who struggle get discouraged and give up. The bright ones get bored and tune out. And the average ones never get the chance to be anything more than average because any tiny bit of extra energy gets spent on the kids who are struggling. It's a lose/lose/lose setup.

originally posted by: waftist
a reply to: Aazadan
Tracking eh? Sounds good to me, a more intimate relationship with each individual student to assure their progress and I think there should be more resources put towards these lagging students.
As far as jobs, yes more trade skills should be offered and taught at all schools. As fast as innovation is moving, it seems jobs will come with it, but at the same time technology is reducing jobs these days also. I guess tech jobs will remain in demand and medical fields seems strong. We are moving so fast too, that a new system must incorporate adaptability and flexibility to withstand the (r)evolution of technology. The next ten years will move so fast, and instilling something new now, has to be able to move and change with the times.

Could you link the idea you were talking about, thx.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Education can definitely improve but it does, the entire world is improving and things are way better than just decades ago. Especially in developing countries, having computers and offline educational material is getting there more and more. I'm positive if/when I'll have kids in school, they will also have access to a host of educational sites, software and information. Myself I didn't like school very much because I was not populair and didn't connect with others very well. I don't have a diploma just a bunch of certificates and instead of continue studying I decided to go work. I happen to work in IT so I still get a lot of job offers and I'm happy with my income. It didn't come easy, after a few years working I decided to spend more and more time studying using the internet. Right now I'm mostly using the linkedin video's, but also youtube, technet and soon I'll start with coursera.

The root cause is parenting. Either change the system so society can better educate children and children will need less of the parents, or change the system so not everyone can have children (at least some test), or parents have more time to spend on their children.

Besides that technology has a major impact. I believe many children can see it coming; more automation and this creates uncertainty and confusion, no longer just learning in school and working but having to learn an entire life due to changing technologies. The information overdose, not just from one's own culture but also others. Old ideas as mentioned in the vid about cheating/copying and companies believing 'googlers' are frauds, peoples fears of technology, all things children pick up on even if they can't verbalize or place it in the greater scheme of things. Then there are the old models of male/female which add to the confusion, not to mention there are still too many people out there believing IQ is mostly because of genetics, skin color, gender etc. it plays a part ofcourse but anyone can learn anything with the proper motivation and setting. I believe some families have worked hard at education in the past and they pass this on thus you get children who appear more smart than others. We should acknowledge this and follow the leader, whichever family is the most succesful or has the most 'goodness', who are socially most developed and have a good mental health.

Another thing about the video is I don't agree standardization is a bad thing, on the contrary it might help people better relate to eachother and also help equality. Otherwise it'll just lead to another pyramid system of intellectuals at the top. We can't all be visionaries - we would just see the same outcome and it would all cancel itself out and become a standard. People need structure not chaos and easily/quickly understand what the other is about so it's easier to understand and be patient, have compassion, not get upset because it doesn't appear fair.

FINANCING EDUCATION
Financing public education through high school is largely a local and state matter. Unfortunately, there is still great disparity among local school districts because of the manner in which funding occurs. All districts must have equal funding per pupil if we are ever to hope to make education the great equalizer it is supposed to be.

In a majority of developed nations, and in numerous developing nations as well, public education is free, for as far as a student is capable of going. There is no student loan debt that impacts for years to come. There are still private universities, of course, but there are also subsidies for students attending such institutions. Nowhere but in America do people cling to the notion that education beyond high school is a privilege for those who can afford it or who can obtain scholarships and grants. The rest have to incur mountains of debt, at interest, that can take 30+ years to pay off. This situation guarantees that young adults with degrees start the “race” of life in different places, even when their degrees and skills are equal.

We need full public financing of public post-secondary institutions, so that all students who have the intellectual capability may attend and focus on their studies rather than the issues of financing their college years.

a reply to: waftist

There is no argument for not getting an education, and I am not talking about a degree, but an education.

If you cannot read, you cannot learn since so much of what we know is encoded into written text, even if it is digitized. If you cannot analyze written text and parse together how to take knowledge out of that, then you cannot learn, and that is a taught skill, not a learned one.

Reading, writing (even in digital format), grammar, spelling are all a process of learning how to learn to parse information and organize it both for you benefit and benefit of others. It's basic communication 101.

Math is the other side of that coin. It's the same thing only with numbers.

All the other disciplines build of those basic two building blocks. And there simply is no argument, no matter how cool kids think they are for not learning those two things and thoroughly. No matter how advanced or changed our economy gets, they will always need a thorough grounding in those two in order to learn to adapt and fit themselves in.

What do schools do a piss poor job of teaching?

Those two skills.