A rebuttal to the 'never Trump' crowd on Afghanistan

Much like Trump's trip and speech in Saudi Arabia. The actual policy as articulated in this link is both sane and workable. It correctly targets Pakistan as the source of the insurgent activity-which neither Bush not Obama had the guts to do- and offers at least a potential route to ending that mess.

Outstanding!

theconservativetreehouse.com... /#more-137524

a reply to: nwtrucker


Meet the new guy! Same as the old guy!

a reply to: windword


Not the way I see it, at all. The new guy is stuck fixing the last two guys screw-ups.

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: nwtrucker


Meet the new guy! Same as the old guy!

The "old guy" just sat back and drone striked enemies and civilians at will accomplishing nothing. "New guy" is actually addressing the problem (Pakistan).

a reply to: jjkenobi


That's not historically accurate, regardless of your alt-right rhetoric against Obama and all thing Obama.
The Afghanistan war goes back to Bush, the other old guy.

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: jjkenobi


That's not historically accurate, regardless of your alt-right rhetoric against Obama and all thing Obama.
The Afghanistan war goes back to Bush, the other old guy.

Yep bush started it, and Obama made it worse. The US has both of them to thank for the Heroin epidemic that our nation currently faces.

originally posted by: jjkenobi

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: nwtrucker


Meet the new guy! Same as the old guy!

The "old guy" just sat back and drone striked enemies and civilians at will accomplishing nothing. "New guy" is actually addressing the problem (Pakistan).

I'd have to search it, but I recall a site which showed that the Taliban were completely removed from Afghanistan by less than 500 boots on the ground! Completely! Those 'boots' had coordinated air strikes and slobber-knocked the Taliban right back into Pakistan.

Bush let them back in. Period.

Obama, as you say, likely in tacit support, gave them lip-service attention, at best.

Is complete withdrawing an option? Yes. One that I support....based on the information that I have. Is it possible that I don't have all that information? That this can be done rather quickly...IF the correct target is named and addressed? Perhaps.

For now I will support Trump on this and hope the usual 'Diplomat' crowd doesn't screw things up yet again. It those guys that are the screw-ups. Not our military. They do their job, when allowed to do so.

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: jjkenobi


That's not historically accurate, regardless of your alt-right rhetoric against Obama and all thing Obama.
The Afghanistan war goes back to Bush, the other old guy.

No argument from me on that score. Bush is as culpable as Obama. If not more so.

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: jjkenobi

The Afghanistan war goes back to Bush, the other old guy.

The Afghan mess goes back to Reagan who supported at the time the Mujahideen against the soviets.
Great policy, masterminded by Zbigniew Brzezinski that gave the world Osama Ben Laden, 9/11, Al-Qaeda, ...

originally posted by: theultimatebelgianjoke

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: jjkenobi

The Afghanistan war goes back to Bush, the other old guy.

The Afghan mess goes back to Reagan who supported at the time the Mujahideen against the soviets.
Great policy, masterminded by Zbigniew Brzezinski that gave the world Osama Ben Laden, 9/11, Al-Qaeda, ...

That is a stretch, in my estimation. If one dissects it further, the soviets were driven out with U.S. support. A good thing, in my estimation.

Once again, the diplomats messed things up after the fact. The U.S. left a power vacuum which the strongest locals took full advantage of.

That is the legacy of the 'Diplomatic' insanity of this planet. WWI, WWII, The subsequent 'Cold War' Both the Korean AND Vietnam wars....now the ME. All, without exception, lies in the political/diplomatic realm.

I would go further on the conditions that would have to occur for continuance of Afghanistan-or even Iraq, for that matter- and that would be complete assurances that both gov'ts weren't merely giving lip-service support to the U.S. and were worthy of that support.

Next in Afghanistan, ironclad assurances that the poppy fields would be removed/destroyed once the military situation has been stabilized.

Sufficient warning that this was the last chance for those regimes to survive and if there was the slightest indication that their agreement was violated, it would be the end for both regimes.

I believe Trump is more than capable of that direct and convincing rhetoric and backing it up.

Now add in a military strategy that doesn't take us into a nuclear confrontation and perhaps it would work.

We shall see.

a reply to: nwtrucker

Is complete withdrawing an option? Yes. One that I support....based on the information that I have. Is it possible that I don't have all that information? That this can be done rather quickly...IF the correct target is named and addressed? Perhaps.

You, me and a whole bunch of us. The neo-cons behind Bush had him tell us it would be over soon and it wasn't. The apparatus behind national policy wouldn't let Obama take us out though he had said he would.
Trump, from my recall, said being there was not right, yet now here he is with '' his plan''. Bolox. He is no more in control of these issues than Bush or Obama.

From my observations, Trump is completely out of his depth, as you and I would be if we were him.

originally posted by: TerryMcGuire
a reply to: nwtrucker

Is complete withdrawing an option? Yes. One that I support....based on the information that I have. Is it possible that I don't have all that information? That this can be done rather quickly...IF the correct target is named and addressed? Perhaps.

You, me and a whole bunch of us. The neo-cons behind Bush had him tell us it would be over soon and it wasn't. The apparatus behind national policy wouldn't let Obama take us out though he had said he would.
Trump, from my recall, said being there was not right, yet now here he is with '' his plan''. Bolox. He is no more in control of these issues than Bush or Obama.

From my observations, Trump is completely out of his depth, as you and I would be if we were him.

But then, does that speak directly to the "deep state" theory?

How soon we forget....

The MIC will ratchet up this new and improved war on terror so Halliburton, Raytheon, General Dynamics can max out their profit in blood and lives.

How soon till we hear...."we need more boots on the ground so we can complete the mission"

How many lives are you willing to sacrifice to corporate profits? How many will be enough?

It's an established pattern. You do know who pays the bills, don't you?

But let's make this a partisan issue, point fingers, place the blame and totally ignore the elephant in the room.

Trump is about bottom line cost and accountability. He is a business man. Just stating that we were not there to change and nation build was far and above what has been told to us for the past 25-30 years.

The Soviet Union went bankrupt fighting in Afghanistan. It was not so much as we drove them out but they realized there was no need to continue to try change and left.

In our case, why not give 'support' to end terror and make countries like Pakistan and Afghanistan responsible for their own countries. It is the first step I think to stopping all of the foreign aid or at least reducing it and if US corporations want to sell their weapons there and it creates US jobs and tax revenue why not.

Since 9/11 we have given Paki almost 20 billion and Afghanistan got 12 billon last year alone. What has the US gotten for that? Dead soldiers and OBL.

Bottom line is this is not a flip flop per se. I think when officials actually get those PDB as POTUS they see the world as it really is.

He changed course but his strategy to me is one I can live with for now.

I see nothing has changed really, has it. War? lol How long has the USA been at war? 222 years? Out of 239 years? I recall reading about one of your presidents, not sure which one now . Who had a dream or a vision, concerning the MIC and how it would destroy the USA. Any one who go`s against the plan gets taken out Kennedy ect. Now it is Trump`s turn, so on it go`s. At least they did not give him a peace prize like the last one. Obomba lol

Afghanistan is something I am truly torn on at this time, ultimate blame lays with the soviets.

But we dropped the ball in '89 when they pulled out and we did not help them rebuild, now we are looking at making the same mistake all over again.

I am tired of losing soldiers there, but if the strategy is really to stabilize rather than just loot the poppy fields, then we should stay, otherwise time to come home.

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: TerryMcGuire
a reply to: nwtrucker

Is complete withdrawing an option? Yes. One that I support....based on the information that I have. Is it possible that I don't have all that information? That this can be done rather quickly...IF the correct target is named and addressed? Perhaps.

You, me and a whole bunch of us. The neo-cons behind Bush had him tell us it would be over soon and it wasn't. The apparatus behind national policy wouldn't let Obama take us out though he had said he would.
Trump, from my recall, said being there was not right, yet now here he is with '' his plan''. Bolox. He is no more in control of these issues than Bush or Obama.



From my observations, Trump is completely out of his depth, as you and I would be if we were him.

But then, does that speak directly to the "deep state" theory?

Yes it does, but from my perspective I would say ""a'' deep state theory. Where one theory holds to a tight knit cabal of either on one side, socialists, and on the other side, ''Machiavellian Fascists'' I think we need look at other possibilties of the real nature of this ''deep state''.

While I have little doubt that there is a driving force behind what is happening to us at this time, I am reluctant to place responsibility on one group or another. More, I think it is built into the nature of our social and economic systems that demand a certain outlook on life in order to succeed. And of course, once successful these people believe that they are examples of '' the way'' things need to be done. However what they found was true but only to a degree and not some over arching truth.

a reply to: nwtrucker

Afghanistan is not known as the graveyard of empires for nothing.


The smart thing to do is pull out not double down on stupid.


You cant subject Afghanistan, tame it, subdue or nation build in it.

Bin Laden dead, get out now or the USA will be stuck there forever.

You guys will literally believe anything he says as undeniable fact and don't even bother questioning yet.

Why isn't Hillary in prison?

Still expect people to believe a word that comes out of this clowns mouth