Why An Anti Trumper Supports The President On Korea

I've written several threads in the past indicating why I don't believe Donald Trump should have been elected president. I won't recap the reasons. Members can go back to those threads if they are interested. Although I did not support him, mainly for the reason that I thought that he lacked seasoning as a politician and was not ready for prime time, I have never said that I disliked him personally (that I recall) or that he was not a welcome gadfly on the political scene. On Russia, I do agree with him. It's time to move away from the "Cold War" mentality.

Having said that, I do think that the president has at least one particular talent that makes me trust him in dealing with the North Korean regime and its leader, Kim Jong Un, or, as I like to think of him, Little Fat Boy.

The president is thoroughly qualified in only three areas, as far as I can tell, bankruptcy, self promotion and the language of the schoolyard.

It is in this last category that I think we should trust the president's instincts, because the language of the schoolyard is Little Fat Boy's language. It is a language to which the president brings many more years of experience. A lot of the pundits who deplore the president's language on the North Korea issue, are completely at sea when it comes to understanding what the president is doing, but I don't think there is a nuance of it that the president doesn't understand thoroughly.

"But, but, but Ippy, Little Fat . . . , uh, Kim Jong Un has nuclear weapons, he could launch nuclear war, that would mean 25,000,000 dead in Seoul, the risks, the mess, the danger . . . " some would say.

Yes, of course, but what these people often do not appreciate is that LFB obtained nuclear weapons and is trying to obtain nuclear armed ICBMs for the purpose of regime maintenance. Using the weapons, costly as it would be, would also mean regime change, the opposite of their intended purpose.

That means that the president has considerable wiggle room to work his schoolyard magic on Little Fat Boy. The president may be all kinds of inept about a lot of things, but not about little fat boys in the schoolyard, and make no mistake, that's where Kim Jong Un is, especially in his own mind.

I'm trusting the president on this one. This stuff he knows about.

a reply to: ipsedixit

I still don't trust Trump to deal with North Korea due to this:

“But acceptance, while the right choice, is yet another bad one. With such missiles, Kim might feel emboldened to move on South Korea. Would the U.S. sacrifice Los Angeles to save Seoul? The same calculation drove the U.K. and France to develop their own nuclear weapons during the Cold War. Trump has already suggested that South Korea and Japan might want to consider building nuclear programs. In this way, acceptance could lead to more nuclear-armed states and ever greater chances that one will use the weapons.

With his arsenal, Kim may well become an even more destabilizing force in the region. There is a good chance that he would try to negotiate from strength with Seoul and Washington, forging some kind of confederation with the South that leads to the removal of U.S. forces from the peninsula. If talks were to resume, Trump had better enter them with his eyes open, because Kim, who sees himself as the divinely inspired heir to leadership of all the Korean people, is not likely to be satisfied with only his half of the peninsula.”

www.theatlantic.com...

My point is Kim is a playing a deadly game that may be out of Trump's league.

Heh, good point OP.

Although it's not just NK's game being played out here, it's also on a grander scale, China's game.

(Along with whoever gave the NKs these supposed warheads. ~cough~ Putin ~cough~)

The US has been taking over countries now like it's a business.... which it is. It's a money maker.

All this "weapons of mass destruction", terrorist fears, chaos with rebels, killing their own people, starving their own people, and whatever lies they feed us is pathetic as we continue to believe these lies.

The US has Nukes and probably other weapons that would blow our mind. OTHER COUNTRIES are waiting to be taken over by US because they too see the business is growing and becoming more and more powerful. Look at Venezuela. They know whats up.. and we should too. It's a no brainer and a pattern at best.

It's time for the American people to get off the couch and begin uprooting the evil leaders.

I just don't understand how people continue to believe the media and Trump. Trump is building an empire just like the ones before him. He is no different than the last 4 or 5 Presidents as this plan has been in the works for decades.

New World Order is coming...

a reply to: starwarsisreal

The article you quote is interesting but I don't think there is a chance of some sort of confederation of the two Koreas. This would be a great danger to Kim. There seems to be a lot of anxiety about "Kim's next move", but I don't think he has a next move. His ambition is to secure the Kim dynasty in North Korea. There are no more doable tasks involving nuclear blackmail, I don't think.

As far as Kim himself is concerned, the Chinese government, an entity I would normally be inclined to defer to on the subject of how to deal with this personality, is uniquely unfit to advise on the matter. I think they have been conditioned by years of the "one child policy" to handle their "little emperors" with kid gloves and caution. I'm sure many a Chinese family has been ruled from the cradle. I don't think they know how to handle the guy, but Trump can meet him on more than equal terms, in the schoolyard of his mind.

I think the president is trying to get under his skin to the point where cooler and more elderly heads in North Korea take the kid out of the picture.

originally posted by: Painterz
Heh, good point OP.

Although it's not just NK's game being played out here, it's also on a grander scale, China's game.

(Along with whoever gave the NKs these supposed warheads. ~cough~ Putin ~cough~)

The China game is going well. They are more engaged then they have been in the past. Not wanting a war at your door step is a powerful motivator.

a reply to: starwarsisreal

I would love to know how you think Hillary would have handled the situation.

It's messy right now and I think Mr. Trump is doing a fine job.

a reply to: ipsedixit

Read my thread on North Korea's racist ideology

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Actually what Trump is doing is confirming North Korea's racist ideology that Americans are sub human barbarian animals and that only nuclear weapons can shield them from harm.

a reply to: Zerodoublehero

First off, I'm no Shillary supporter and I hate both Trump and Hillary.

Anyways, Hillary would have done the same as Obama. The bottom line is both Trump and Hilary would have offered no solutions. They may cry and complain all they want but in the end Fat Boy is going to get his nuclear weapons that is very much part of North Korea's racist ideology where as long as (in their eyes) the sub human Americans are around threatening them, they need nuclear weapons to defend the Korean race.

I feel America is the last Nation that will fall harder than others. Mainly from the inside before it could be out.

All the social issues we have, the financial burden years ago creeping until us.

The last thing we need is to bomb another country to maintain control and help others be stable. Doing so, would only lead karma to come back harder on the US.

Forgive me for being dumb

I guess we'll have to trust our Potus on this because it looks like North Korea is getting ready to fire another missile, this one from a submarine:

North Korea could be preparing to carry out a submarine missile test in defiance of President Trump's attempts to bring the rogue nation to heel.

Satellite images taken on Monday shows activity at a test site which mirrors preparations ahead of the country's last test of their Pukguksong-1 submarine-launched ballistic missile in August last year. The images were released after President Trump said American weapons are 'locked and loaded' in case Kim Jong-un makes any more 'overt threats' toward the US.

Joseph Bermudez, a specialist in North Korean defense and intelligence affairs, posted photographs on the authoritative 38 North blog of the US-Korea Institute at Johns Hopkins University.

'Recent commercial satellite imagery reveals several developments suggesting that North Korea may be accelerating the development of the sea-based leg of its nuclear forces,' he said.

Source

Looks like we'll see if President Trump carries through on his threat to take action. If he doesn't, he will appear as a paper tiger. If he does, China will be po'd should this just be a test.

One of these days, what we suspect is going to be a test will be the real thing instead.

a reply to: starwarsisreal

The whole Asian region is racist. Eric Margolis, writing in the Toronto Sun many years ago, having traveled widely in Southeast Asia, laid it out in detail.

Kim wants nuclear arms to secure the Kim dynasty. It's as simple as that. Once he gets them, we will have politics, as we have with all the other nuclear armed nations. Kim wants to get over the nuclear armed hump first. I'm sure we will have a lot of posturing and blather after that, but it will settle down to business more or less as usual, as it has everywhere else.

Mr. Trump is trying to enable regime change in North Korea, to a more stable set of leaders. If he fails we will have to put up with a new member of the extremely dangerous, handle with care, club, but I don't think it will amount to much more than that. Bread and butter issues have a way of clearing everything else off the agenda and there is not one case in history, that I can think of, of offensive nuclear blackmail.

The Israelis are the classic case. They have nukes but can't keep the Palestinians off the streets.

a reply to: starwarsisreal

I completely agree & I was not saying you were a hil-dog supporter just merely wondering how you think she would have handled it.

I think it's funny that people think this is all on Trump. This mess was going to happen regardless of who we had in office. Let's just hope this can be handled without too many people getting hurt.

a reply to: ipsedixit

Regime change will never work. According to Brian Reynolds Myers in book the Cleanest Race which talks in more details about North Korea's racist ideology, in order to effectively control the populace, the Kims made the people believe that only they can protect them from hostile outsiders and that without the Kims, then they will be defiled by the filthy Americans. If anyone try to overthrow the Kims, then the people will come and support Kim.

The new leaders of North Korea will have to convince the populace that they too are the protectors of the Korean race.

a reply to: starwarsisreal

You can fool all of the people some of the time, but not all of the time. I guarantee you, not everyone in North Korea, particularly in the military and the political elite, believes the Kim myth. If he makes enough trouble for them, the forces within the region and within Korea itself will get rid of him.

a reply to: ipsedixit

Of course they don't but here's another issue, they need Kim for their survival. If South Korea swallowed North Korea, do you really think they will retain their power?

Believe me, many of them would rather stand with Kim than to face charges in the Hague. At this point, there's far too many elites that are in involved with crimes of the North Korean state.

Kim set up the whole system so without him the system falls apart. Look at Qaddafi in Libya. Once he is gone, Libya fell apart.

a reply to: ipsedixit

NK war should be already part of our history. Little Kim wouldn't exist now.

Paranoia/fear/weakness/hubris.

a reply to: starwarsisreal

The analogy with Libya is not a good one, in my opinion, because Libya is a much more tribal society than North Korea which has a small amount of ethnic diversity but couldn't be called tribal. Gaddafi, also, was not a dynastic leader. In Libya every village headman who can draw a crowd in the town square thinks he can run the country. The fall of Gaddafi unleashed a power struggle in Libya that is still going on. In Korea it would not be the same at all. A palace coup is much more likely with the follow up predetermined by the plotters. Also, in North Korea there is not a wide dispersion of arms among the general populace, unlike the situation in Libya.

Kim Jong Un did not set up the Korean system, his grandfather did. People who think a country will fall apart without a leader are not always correct. In Libya yes, but in North Korea, in my opinion, no.

a reply to: ipsedixit

Okay you want regime change but how do you know that new leader isn't as bad as Kim?

Kim maybe a incompetent fool but what about the new leader? What if the new leader is more dangerous than even Kim?

a reply to: starwarsisreal

If Kim had a teenage brother, I doubt if the coup plotters would pick him as the next leader. If they did, he'd have regents ruling for him for a while. After Kim I think it is much more likely that we would have a military junta or military strong man.

Realistically, I think Kim is at the top of the danger scale. Actively working toward reducing the US to ashes is about as dangerous as intentions, at least, go. Traditional arch enemies like Russia and China are interested in working out lucrative business arrangements.

The number one issue in North Korea is regime preservation. Do you seriously think that a new leader, following Kim, would see the road to regime preservation passing through increases in the confrontation level with the United States? I don't.

Kim is a special, juvenile psychological case. I suspect that the people around him are getting as tired of it as everyone else.