Harley-Davidson cuts shipments forecast; shares skid

I put this one in chit chat because I felt it had more to do with culture change than economics or politics.

Apparently Harley Davidson sales are in the tank.
The reason is an aging rider base of baby boomers retiring and not buying new bikes and those same folks selling used bikes flooding the market.

Younger kids are not taking up the hobby enough to replace the people getting out of the hobby.
Maybe younger kids prefer quieter more reliable rides?
I have also heard about kids not even getting drivers licences at 16. Just no interest.

Harley expects a 20% drop in sales for the next quarter. That's a huge hit.

www.reuters.com...

Hardly Desirable are trying to purchase Ducati, with the help of Goldman Sachs.

#justsayn

P.S. If that happens....I will sell my Italian 2 wheeler.

That didn't go over so good with MV Agusta.

originally posted by: Plotus
That didn't go over so good with MV Agusta.

Literally made me sick to my stomach.

Could be more parents are drilling the dangers of motorcycles into the younger generation. I always thought bikes were cool and wanted one and wanted a boyfriend with one until my dad started showing me pictures of all the dead girlfriends with their brains and organs all over the highway. Some had helmets, some didn't. Some barely lived through such horror, seemingly those who were lucky passed on.

My sons great uncle died a few years before we had him, hit and run on a local exchange ramp he got rear ended by someone and went over the wall 50 feet down the side of the overpass and onto the concrete roadway.

So personally, I know these are the reasons I and quite a few of my associates just never really bought into the whole motorcycle scene.

Yes I think they are cool, I love watching people enjoy riding them, I don't mind if other people take the risk that's on them if they enjoy it and it makes them happy then I'm happy about that.

But I really think that's why sales are declining. They aren't practical and they are dangerous, you get in a wreck on a motorcycle and it usually always spells injury or death.

-Alee

The reason for a massive slump in bike sales within the UK is the current Licence law and the hoops people have to jump through, that along with the constant war on anything that is enjoyable and you have a decade of boom which was 2000-2010 where bikes where cheap, good and credit easy to come by.. These same bikes are now flooding the used market but there are no buyers because people cannot be f#cked to bugger about with the new style licence.

Those that are still riding and have their licence already are taking advantage of chump change used bikes instead of spending thousands more on something new.

The only thing keeping a majority of bikes shops open are scooters for people on leaner plates going to work,

The 90's where about sports bikes, then in the 2000's it was World superbike racing and Moto Gp that pushed sales to then have Ewan Macgregor and Charley Boorman do long way round which sparked the massive sales boom in Adventure touring bikes such as the BMW GS etc.. Now we have a poor broke nation with f#ck all spare income, credit is harder to get, bikes prices are way high and the licence law and constant war on speeding kinda sums up the current situation.

That is even before we talk about Euro4 compliance that will stop Honda bringing in the CBR600 next year..


RA

a reply to: NerdGoddess

I'm 46 and I know 3 people that have died on motorcycles and several that have had pretty bad wrecks. So you might be right.

I'm seeing this first hand trying to sell my father's Harley trike. He passed away a couple months ago. It's brand new with all the options. 700 miles. He paid $36K for it new and it appraised for $27k. I'll be lucky to get $20k out of it. The market is completely saturated and Harley's customer base is dying off.

It's beautiful to look at for sure, but I just can't see how this bike stickered for $36K. For that price, I could get a very nice car!

Though I don't ride ( I prefer my ATV's), If I did decide to purchase a motorcycle, it definitely wouldn't be a Harley. So many choices out there with better versatility, value and fun.

I ride, been riding for many years. I'm only 30, but I don't really like Harleys. They are big, heavy, loud, slow, and ugly. I prefer sport bikes, or supermotos. When I get older, I'll probably just get a Yamaha FZ1000 or something.. it's basically a sport bike with risers to get you in a more upright position instead of race position 24/7.

Its a shame that people from my generation and younger don't appreciate motorcycles.

a reply to: NerdGoddess

Sorry for your experiences.

To keep it short,
I see way less pigs and a significant amount more of Japanese (which is what I prefer) cycles. I don't see where safety plays much in it. People want performance and reliability, and the pigs don't offer that....or VERY little.

a reply to: Bluntone22

I have also heard about kids not even getting drivers licences at 16. Just no interest.

Has more to do with finances. Banks pay no interest so people can't afford it.

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: Bluntone22

I have also heard about kids not even getting drivers licences at 16. Just no interest.

Has more to do with finances. Banks pay no interest so people can't afford it.

Nah,
People find a way to buy what they want.
They will cut something out to pay for their fun.

If harley would come up with a unique design for a better sport bike, or a super motard, I'd be interested. But, they would have to move away from that terrible V-twin concept they have, or at least design a good v4 variant.

The buell is trash. Belt drive, underpowered v-twin, and ugly as all hell. I'd only own a buell if I were trying to start a motorcycle collection like Jay Leno does cars. It'd probably never get used, and if I did I'd probably ride it on the razor's edge until it broke lol!

originally posted by: RoadCourse

Hardly Desirable are trying to purchase Ducati, with the help of Goldman Sachs.

#justsayn

P.S. If that happens....I will sell my Italian 2 wheeler.

Don't sell the Duke, it will appreciate in value if Hardly Desperate sinks their teeth into Ducati.

I've noticed that many baby boomers are upgrading to GT's like BMW's and perhaps that's one of the reasons, hell even some biker gangs are turning Japanese because they are starting to realize that Harley's are only for some who want to live out their Easy Rider fantasies.

originally posted by: Bluntone22

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: Bluntone22

I have also heard about kids not even getting drivers licences at 16. Just no interest.

Has more to do with finances. Banks pay no interest so people can't afford it.

Nah,
People find a way to buy what they want.
They will cut something out to pay for their fun.

'They' aren't as wealthy nowadays. Not everyone has a "Lenno Garage'.

a reply to: Thecakeisalie

I truly rather not sell. In my opinion, the one I own, goes down as one of the most beautiful to ever help the world turn.
But I can't and will not be affiliated with HD. For one, they offer absolutely nothing for me. And more importantly, because of exactly what you wrote about, your example of the kind who own them.
I'm not trying to offend anyone, but, every damn one I run across acts as if the sh!t don't stink, the best thing since microwavable popcorn, and act as if they're the baddest thing to walk the earth since dinosaur and Scandinavian Vikings.
I want a particular model F4, badly. But because HD owned Agusta for a couple years.....Ain't gonna do it..... #FTS (F- - K THAT SH!T)

originally posted by: intrptr

originally posted by: Bluntone22

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: Bluntone22

I have also heard about kids not even getting drivers licences at 16. Just no interest.

Has more to do with finances. Banks pay no interest so people can't afford it.

Nah,
People find a way to buy what they want.
They will cut something out to pay for their fun.

'They' aren't as wealthy nowadays. Not everyone has a "Lenno Garage'.

My wife works in finance and she says younger people are leaning toward sports bikes and hot rods like fast and furious cars.
They don't want cruise bikes as much.
That's why I said it's a culture swing more than a financial one.

Trump loves them, and they just recently opened the 3rd factory.
The 3rd outside the US, that is.
In Thailand.

a reply to: ManFromEurope

Free trade ain't free.

I think it's a mix of culture and cash. A new basic Harley is easily 15k unless you buy a sportster. But the sportster doesn't have that hard look that other models have plus everyone who I know with Harley's laugh at sportys.

Not many kids have 15k laying around for a bike so they start looking at alternatives. Other brands don't make entry level Motorcycles with the hard Harley look, I'd say the closest is probably the Yamaha Bolt for the entry level bikes. Even going used a 10 year old Dyna will Still fetch 8-10 grand after the whole Sons of Anarchy fad which royalty jacked up the market for real riders.

Now sport bikes is a whole different story Kawasaki and Yamaha now have sport bikes with that fast and slick look in a tamed down beginners engine in the ninja 300 or Yamaha R3 off the lot these bikes are 5-7 grand depending on the year and how well you can negotiate. Used I've seen ninja 300's with only 2000-3000 miles go for $2500. A much easier number for a young rider starting out to eat. Which typically the first bike of a good expierence will kick
Off their brand loyalty and they will stick with that manufacture for a long time.

Culture factor is Harley's do require more hands on work than a sport bike in my opinion. They tend to rattle themselves apart and from what I see the younger generation has no interest in gettin their hands dirty. A few weeks ago I asked three of my co workers who are definately millenials if they even knew how to change a car tire one looked at me and said that's why my mom buys me a AAA membership. The other two nodded in approval. Sure I know adults who take their Harley into the shop
For service but most of my friends work
On them solo, that's part of the fun and pride in owning a Harley Davidson.

But I think cash is the deciding factor at the end of the day. You can get a cooler looking bike for significantly less thank even a used Harley.