Grenfell Tower surviors move Bad idea waiting to happen?

In Germany it´s beginning now too. The first house is evacuated, another 70 are under investigation now.
Wuppertaler Rundschau (german)

Short after the Grenfell Tower incident iread a thread here on ATS, where someone said that this might be to relocate the people, to divide them. And that most of the residents in the Grenfell Tower were migrants, muslims and poor people.

So we have the exact same situation in Wuppertal. The house that got evacuated was inhabitated by mostly migrants, muslims and for sure, not rich people. There are segregation problems in Wuppertal/Quartier Hilgershöhe, because "we" Tschermans prefer to create ghetto´s for not bio germans(often near their working places) and accuse the migrants then for not integrating in the german society. But at the same time most of the germans are happy if their neighbour has no black hairs and not bio germans live far away from their residences. That´s the problem with us germans, you can do whatever you want, it is wrong. If the not bio germans try to integrate, "we" germans don´t want it. If they then don´t integrate, this is wrong too...

I am drifting. It can be a "coincidence" that places are affected where the residents are mostly migrants and muslims, foreigners and poor people. But i am afraid this is normal, because it hits ONLY not rich people. I am pretty sure that the rich people, which profit from the majority being or becoming (working?)poor, do not make any differences between bio german and not bio german. They just see cows that are ready to be milked, till not a little drop of milk is left!

It´s all because of:

"Actually, there’s been class warfare going on for the last 20 years, and my class has won. We’re the ones that have gotten our tax rates reduced dramatically."

„It's class warfare, my class is winning, but they shouldn't be."

”There’s class warfare, all right, but it’s my class, the rich class, that’s making war, and we’re winning.”
Warren Buffett

a reply to: onehuman

Do not ever be blinded by the action's of this government, the Tory's have already cleared the way for more SOCIAL CLEANSING, that is finding way's to evict or otherwise move the poor out of areas they want to sell off just like the land clearances of century's past in Scotland, this is so that speculators and the rich can buy up and own that land.
It is actually a legal requirement of that bill that social housing be sold off and that does mean the Grenfell site as well and of course conveniently for the Tory's also all other social housing they are currently forcibly vacating resident's from because of safety concerns, by declaring those site's unfit for habitation they are making them available for sale to the private sector.

The Tory's are NOT above using disasters to further there own agenda and even when they are the one's to blame they still find a way to further there own agenda.

Back in the early 1980's class was a thing of the past in the UK for most people, oh it still existed but was not an in your face thing, now the poor are ASHAMED of saying they live in social housing or of admitting they do not own there own home, the rich are braggards and society is fragmented.

Thatcher remember, probably before your time, said that she wanted to RESTORE the class system in the UK, that is actually she wanted to restore the barriers that keep the poor down, make the rich into there overlord's and undermine social democracy and everything she set out to do is coming to fruition, the sell off of the council housing at massive loss to the taxpayer and permanently undermining the council housing stock around the country was stage one, rising social care costs are stage two of this part of it, Old Labour (not Tony Blur and his hidden Tory chum's whom took labour over in a coup) warned about this, even the former leader of the NUM warned of everything the Tory's were doing but the Media then as now was for the Tory's and RIGGED the public opinion in there favor like wolves herding mindless sheep.
So as the people whom think they own there own homes age they are suddenly finding that the Tory's gave only so that they could take back for the benefit of the rich, they gave them the power to buy there own home at a massive discount but once they need social care they have to sell it to pay for the care they need out of the proceeds.

Likely Grenfell tower site is too sensitive for the Tory's or the corrupt council to sell off, at least immediately but they shall not build new social housing there either and as for the other towers being Evacuated/Evicted they shall most definitely be sold off (at a loss to any resident's that have bought there own flat's because they too are just poor as far as the Tory's are concerned.

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

I know a guy that spent 15 years in the British Army and he is stuck on the streets. Try talking to him about sympathy for illegal immigrants.

Edit to add: He's covered in skin tumors from Depleted Uranium. Kind of irrelevant to the topic but just think on that from his point of view, Other Side of the Coin.

originally posted by: Wide-Eyes
a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

I know a guy that spent 15 years in the British Army and he is stuck on the streets. Try talking to him about sympathy for illegal immigrants.

Edit to add: He's covered in skin tumors from Depleted Uranium. Kind of irrelevant to the topic but just think on that from his point of view, Other Side of the Coin.

While i can sympathise with that situation with respect it does not mean we should not do everything we can for these people.

It sickens me that in the worlds 5th largest economy we have ex soldiers who are on the streets however I do not see why that means we should leave entire families homeless or moved out of their communities following a disaster no of their making.

The posh flats in question are not the £1m+ flats. They are all sited in the 3 blocks designated for social housing under Section 106 of the Town and Country Planning Act 1990 that requires a developer to build a percentage of the total number of units as social or affordable housing. Usually, the council will commission a housing association to 'work in partnership' and take ownership of and then manage the properties. Part of the Sect.106 properties would have been designated for outright let to people on the council waiting list whilst the remainder would be sold under shared ownership arrangements.

These flats are not part of the main development, do not have access to the concierge service, secure underground car park or the gym/pool facilities. These are the 'poor door' flats, where people that clean the bogs down the Embankment station, sell shoes at some chain-store on Oxford St or fry chapattis in some restaurant kitchen on Brick Lane, would live.

The flats themselves would not be top quality. They are unlikely to have proper kitchens, fixtures and fittings would be of the most basic and room sizes will be lean. I'll bet the open-plan kitchen/lounge/diner will not be more than 3m2. If the kitchens have been fitted with white goods, tenants would be expected to rent these separately from the property itself.

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

Yeah, this guy has a family too...

originally posted by: Wide-Eyes
a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

Yeah, this guy has a family too...

Again I totally sympathise but its a different issue.

Your acquaintances situation, although terrible, does not mean that we should just dump these people on the streets.

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

So they should take priority over the guy that took shrapnel wounds and DU tumors for Queen and country? He can't see his kids because he doesn't have a home.

a reply to: teapot

Why was it stated that the government bought 68 of flats for the build cost of £10 million from the developer as many of the flats were empty anyway.

ETA here is a link that although states the flats won't have the same luxury standard as the million quid ones they will be of the same build quality and it doesn't seem like they were built with the specific purpose of becoming social housing...but they are now, which is a good thing
Kensington Row Social Housing for Grenfell tenants

a reply to: destination now

Because it was all planned in advance.

originally posted by: Wide-Eyes
a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

So they should take priority over the guy that took shrapnel wounds and DU tumors for Queen and country? He can't see his kids because he doesn't have a home.

ITS A TOTALLY DIFFERENT ISSUE!!!!

Totally different!!!

Hundreds of people being made homeless due to a disaster and a ex-servicemen being homeless are two totally different issues.

Stop trying to make this a issue about a homeless squadie because its not.

We are discussing the rehousing of the Grenfell tower victims, not your mate, like i say its horrible whats happened to him but its just not the issue being discussed.

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

To be fair though, I think he is saying why on earth are we taking in so many new people to the country when we cannot look after those who are already here, the Grenfell tragedy aside, we don't have enough low cost social housing available for those who have been on waiting lists for many years, yet a group of refugees arrive and are housed immediately. That's not really fair imo

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

Well as far as I'm concerned, there is a massive lack of priority in this country. I'm seriously losing faith. I've had a very terrifying experience with the NHS this week which I will write a thread about if I can bring myself to do so.

This whole Grenfell incident is a massive conspiracy to clear out the British deplorables (yeah, I adopted it because it's fitting) from the 'up and coming areas of the rich.

David Icke calls them 'Capitols'. I think he coined the term from Orwell.

a reply to: destination now

The issue of homelessness is horrible,

I would first point to the government, under the Tories homelessness has risen every year, from 2015-2016 it went up 16%, in the worlds filth largest economy that is more worried about paying for nukes than it is keeping people of the streets this is disgusting.

Immigration is not the problem in my view, the reason we have people living on the streets is to do with other government actions, like giving the queen a pay rise, paying billions to refurbish Westminster, renewing trident, HS2 rail failing economy due to brexit and the list goes on. Immigration is a red-herring its not why people are homeless.

Last year there were 39000 refugee asylum applications to the UK, of those, 21000 were rejected. Its not a big issue, the big issue is how the right have turned immigration into a massive distraction for what is the real problem with government spending.

I am pretty sure if Theresa May took some of that £1.5Bn she has just handed to the DUP the she could have fixed the problem with homeless ex-servicemen almost over night.

So to get back on topic, we should rehouse these people, in London using vacant properties while we rebuild them a new tower block to live in, in my view.

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

Flip the coin again. There are ZERO excuses for any British citizen to live without a roof over their head. 15 years dodging bullets or 15 years looking for their next hit, there is absolutely no excuse for it.

a reply to: Wide-Eyes

Pretty much what I have said above

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

True, I will stop now. Just angers me to think about it because it could be me.

Like I said, NHS f*cked me this week. I'm not a happy camper. I'm a little sour about where my taxes are going because they're not helping me or anyone I know.

Before we start getting too deep into this nonsense that the rich are somehow a persecuted minority (they are the exact opposite of persecuted, and only libertarian nutcases seriously think otherwise), it might be helpful to point out the following.

The flats into which the Grenfell residents are being "decanted" are social housing. That is, housing specifically meant for the disabled, the low-income, and the unwaged.

Corbyn proposed the sequestration of private property; the Government did something else.

Because the Government left the Grenfell residents to sleep on the streets and in public parks, and it knew the public was going to take Corbyn's side. So it acted but in a slightly different way.

And if anyone thinks the Grenfell residents are going to feel like they've won the lottery, I'd respectfully ask such members to reflect on how you might feel if you had narrowly escaped certain death, and lost all your belongings, not to mention friends and neighbours. "Traumatised and in shock" doesn't begin to cover it.

originally posted by: destination now
a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

To be fair though, I think he is saying why on earth are we taking in so many new people to the country when we cannot look after those who are already here, the Grenfell tragedy aside, we don't have enough low cost social housing available for those who have been on waiting lists for many years, yet a group of refugees arrive and are housed immediately. That's not really fair imo

Because many areas in the North of the country and in London remain depopulated since the demise of manufacturing in the 1980's, leading to empty streets in many areas. Even the tower block estates were half empty. The councils had spare capacity to house refugees and asylum seekers from abroad. The areas could do with the extra population to boost the economy. Many of those people did have ambitions of running their own businesses because there were empty shop units nearby. The home office was offering funds to house people.

The preference of home ownership is a bungalow with a garden, semi-detached homes, terraced homes, triplex apartment blocks, and finally high-rise blocks.

Some councils just demolished the tower blocks and replaced them with low-rise housing.

In Scotland, many have been forced to move out of the cities because of all this property speculation. University graduates earning £25K were priced out of Aberdeen by oil workers earning £40K, leading to the teachers strike in the 1980's. Victorian townhouses were converted into luxury flats with high ceilings. Now property prices have risen so much that nobody can afford to live in the city and has to commute in by car. Edinburgh has gone the same way. Many homes and flats have been converted into HMO's for the international students.

On the South Coast, property developers won't build housing estates unless they know every unit is going to be sold.
There are so few properties to rent that it takes four months to find a new apartment.

No one gonna question why they only bought 68 when hundreds of people lived in those flats?

Or is this a sneaky way of telling us the true death toll?