White Privilege vs. My Father's Life

a reply to: SaturnFX

As a minority, I feel sad very few of us realize that if we keep treating White Conservatives as the enemy it will make things worse.

I talked to a few people about this and they agree with my sentiment. In fact we felt like that's why Trump was elected.

However I suspect many regressive leftists will call me delusional and an "Uncle Tom" for offering sympathies to White Conservatives.

a reply to: SaturnFX

I agree with a lot of what you say, especially about majority and cultural privileges. I tried to address this briefly in my OP but was less effective than you.

There's also a lot to agree with you summary regarding the historical reasons for African-American's issues in the US.

I have some minor disagreements with what you have to say about Asians in the US. Broad brush, many Americans think that all Asians are wiz kids academically. Though on a percentage basis this may've been accurate in the past, I don't think it any longer exists. But that's a whole other can of worms.

originally posted by: starwarsisreal
a reply to: SaturnFX

As a minority, I feel sad very few of us realize that if we keep treating White Conservatives as the enemy it will make things worse.

I talked to a few people about this and they agree with my sentiment. In fact we felt like that's why Trump was elected.

However I suspect many regressive leftists will call me delusional and an "Uncle Tom" for offering sympathies to White Conservatives.

Trump got elected because...a whole host of reasons. Main reason being Hillary was highly uninspiring to get to the polls. She was a empty suit who nobody even really knew what she stood for outside of whatever Bernie said that sounded good, plus...umm...vagina qualifications.
People liked Obama because even if his views didn't really jive with some, he had views, he had goals, and seemingly wanted the job because he felt he would make a better change. Hillary came off as just wanting to achieve the goal of first female president. (Looking at you Meghan McCain!)

You know, I chat with plenty of the people of color (what a regressive statement. lol), anyhow. they may say F00k Trump at the drop of a hat, but after that, they will then talk in equal disgust terms about the sjw nonsense. Yeah, its both sides that are simply toxic and the ability to even dialog on this subject seems to be hijacked by loud, idiotic voices wanting to keep up the divides for dank memes (gotta admit, some of it is funny) and profit

But the internet can be a tool for good in the end
And face to face with a beer in hand breaks down barriers in seconds and makes what would otherwise be nerd rage screeching online turn into a fun chat with new friends.

a reply to: starwarsisreal

Therein lies the problem. The inability for people to speak their truth because of the acrimony of people who think differently, whether it was the professors you spoke about or yourself. To me, being white, the term "Uncle Tom" is much more coercive than a racial term being slung by an idiotic white person. It's a forced submission to the group, whether your think they are wrong or not. This is soul crushing and plays right into the hands of the truly racist.

originally posted by: TobyFlenderson
I have some minor disagreements with what you have to say about Asians in the US. Broad brush, many Americans think that all Asians are wiz kids academically. Though on a percentage basis this may've been accurate in the past, I don't think it any longer exists. But that's a whole other can of worms.

Its still accurate

It's true that 42% of all Asian American adults have at least a college degree, the highest of all the major racial/ethnic groups. It's also common for Asian American students to have the highest test scores and/or GPAs within any given high school or college cohort

Now, when I am discussing Asians, I make the mistake of mostly hitting on east asians (chinese, japanese, koreans). Sure, Thai and other communities from poorer nations have a tougher time here in integration for some reason. new to capitalism I suppose, but even under the broad brush of "Asian", they still make up for it. If we discuss just the specifics of east asians, the privilege goes much higher up

As far as finances, again, Asians are on top

As of 2010, 14,011,000 Asians were living in America.[18] Asian Americans are the only minority in the United States whose median income is higher than whites, assuming Pacific Islanders are not counted as a separate race

And if pacific islanders were counted a seperate race..it would be through the roof (again, east makes up for the southeast poorer ones).

Asians..specifically the 3 big ones, have it the most easy in the USA. Holds true today

a reply to: TobyFlenderson

If you live in California you have to be very careful. In fact there was a high school girl in California who was assaulted by her fellow students for supporting Trump.




I live in LA and believe me in my University not so long ago there was a gathering of Antifa/SJWs types that went around the campus and pull a fire alarm in one part of my college thus angering a lot of students who happened to be studying there.

These people will assault us if we criticize them.

Btw just letting you know some of the worse white racists that ever existed in my personal opinion are white liberal racists. While old school racists are open about it, white liberal racist smile while behind your back talk smack about you.

a reply to: starwarsisreal

It's just so absurd. I expect young adults to do stupid things like this, but for these universities to not take immediate and drastic action is criminal.

a reply to: TobyFlenderson

Sadly that's how bad is it in California. Look at the Berkeley incident for example.

In fact someone mentioned that antifa/SJWs will only pull fire alarms in California because in other states nobody will put up with such childish behavior.

That's why for many of us it's not easy to call out on the regressive leftists.

I do respect a lot of Conservative Speakers like Lauren Southern and a few others for at least calling them out.

While yes I disagree with their views I would like to have a more civil conversation with them.

However, many liberals even if we don't like the regressive leftists are afraid of White Conservatives due to perception of them being antigay, racist, etc. which makes it harder to have a dialogue.

Jim Crow

Want some? Okay... Racism in GI Bill

People expect black people to catch up when they were delibertly held back. Do i agree with the terminology? No, but it coins the advantages some groups of people have over another.

Some reading, as a Irish decendant its worth a read imo How the Irish became white

An example? Your up Toyota! Toyota caught in racist practices

White privledge is the moniker for institutionalized racism.

"White privilege" is a myth. It's a Psy-op to confuse the masses into thinking a white boogeyman exists now, in order to deceive the masses into thinking that we are living in the Jim Crow days again... (This is "divide and conquer")

Today's "SJW" con-artists are trying to make the 1950's a reality again in the 21st century in order to push a lefty globalist political agenda. There IS a conspiracy here. One in which manipulates the populous into believing a plethora of injustices are happening against minorities and gays or whatever, while they are all fairy tales comprised of nonsense.

I will be 40 this month. I am white, my whole family is. But nobody in my neck of the woods has ever experienced white "privilege". I know what it is to be starving, on the verge of being unable to function due to hunger. I've been homeless twice. Shaking. Wishing someone could help.. I've also been called the "N" word by blacks, when I have NEVER called a black person that.

In reality, it's OK for blacks to hate me, openly. They have, quite often. But I can't openly reject thugs. Otherwise, I am a horrible racist person. But I do reject thugs, of all kinds, not just blacks, but thugs of all walks of life... However, the majority of blacks EMBRACE thuggy-ness as "black culture", like it's their own thing. So screw them. I reject them.

I care not if that makes me "racist". I'm sick of people trying to make me feel guilty for my skin color. I am what I am. I can't get a free college ride like minorities can, I NEVER have been able too, BECAUSE I'm white. I'm a guy. And I'm single. So SCREW college.

I'll just keep living paycheck to paycheck because of my "white privilege". What a stupid fairy tale this BS "liberal" thinking is.

originally posted by: rickymouse
Someone who sits in an office doing easy work and getting paid to shuffle papers and not have to physically abuse their bodies is privileged.

Hell, I rank the bulk of that scenario down there with working at a call center.

While one of my big theories about the dismal state of health of Americant's is this idea that we're never to break a sweat, never get a workout... oh that's right pay to go out of your way to go to some stinky gym and you can still do that. How's that working out for the bulk of society???

a reply to: TobyFlenderson

The key part is right there at the start of the text you quoted. The same social, political or economic circumstances.

There are lots of privileges just as there lots of forms of discrimination. Saying that white privilege exists is not saying that all whites have it easier.

All it means is that if you are in the dominant group for gender, race , sexuality, social class etc then, all else being equal and on average you will certain advantages.

Race and gender privileges/discrimination are more prevalent for obvious reasons.

It's not exactly white privilege, but the statistics make it look that way.

Most businesses are small or medium size.

Most of those businesses work like this: (including minority owned businesses)

I start a small business, and if it does well, I hire people. Not just anyone, but family and friends. Those will be the highest paid positions.. CEO, CFO, COO, etc. unless the whole business goes public.

So if you look at the statistics that say there is white privilege, what it is really saying is that there are more businesses owned by white people, who hire friends and family to fill the top positions. Statistically friends and family are more often the same race.

Why do white people own more businesses? Possibly a higher percentage come to this country with generational wealth.

originally posted by: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

originally posted by: rickymouse
Someone who sits in an office doing easy work and getting paid to shuffle papers and not have to physically abuse their bodies is privileged.

Hell, I rank the bulk of that scenario down there with working at a call center.

While one of my big theories about the dismal state of health of Americant's is this idea that we're never to break a sweat, never get a workout... oh that's right pay to go out of your way to go to some stinky gym and you can still do that. How's that working out for the bulk of society???

I have a little electric log splitter for splitting my wood. I would rather split it with a mall though. I had to buy the log splitter about ten years ago because I was weak from medicines. I worked construction most of my life, getting paid to get exercise. I also worked in a factory on one of the hardest jobs on the line. Lifting sinks and engine blocks and hanging them on racks to go through the sandblaster at Kohler.

Why pay for exercise, it has become a money making scam.

a reply to: cenpuppie

Thanks for your input. As to your first two links, that was at a time and/or a place that was not applicable to my family. I know that there is racism and has been racism and may always be racism. I do not question that.

I am at work now and will read more in-depth the article about how the Irish became white later. I disagree with some of it however. The main Irish immigration took place at the same time as a large immigration from the Baltic States as well. At that time the Irish were low man on the totem pole and were treated like it in Boston. The next wave of immigration was the Italians, they became low man and the Irish moved up a rung. There can still be tensions between these communities today. At that time there was a very small black population in Boston. As it grew, there were turf battles that resulted in the Irish being racist toward the blacks. It was the natural pecking order at the time. I don't justify it, I don't agree that it was right, but unfortunately the Irish Catholic tends to be extremely traditional and if something was done a certain way in the past it will continue to be done that way in the future.

Toyota is a Japanese company, so I suppose that would be yellow privilege.

I know there is institutional racism. Neither I nor my family engage in it. In fact, as a criminal defense attorney, I fight against it on a daily basis. How does saying that all whites are privileged help fight institutional racism?

White privilege, nope. Wealthy privilege? Definitely.

originally posted by: TobyFlenderson
a reply to: Edumakated

First, I appreciate your response and candor. Also, I tend toward the Socratic method based on my education. If you don't wish to respond to my inquiries, feel free to tell me to bugger off.

You wrote: "It is really hard to explain it as a white person (no matter your class) really cannot relate to what it feels like to be a minority under a microscope both overtly and even subliminally when it comes to the black experience in America."

Can you give me some examples of this "being under the microscope"? Other than overt racism, ie, being called racial slurs, how have you been discriminated against? If I can't understand what it is like to be black, how can you understand what it is to be white?

Lastly, I would agree that African Americans have a unique place in American society. Does it offend you that other minorities are lumped into racial issues with you as they do not have the same historical basis as you?

I would submit to you, however, that to assume all white's have similar experiences to each other is not at all accurate. I am Catholic and grew up in a predominantly Jewish town. We Christians had a much different experience growing up than did the Jewish around us.

Blacks often feel under a microscope because negative stereotypes are often applied to us. Nowadays it is a little stuff. The microaggressions (I hate that term). Being the only black at a country club and having someone assume you are the valet. Having a flight attendant questions your first class seat on an airline. Cops stopping you because you simply don't look like you belong in a white neighborhood. A school tracking you to remedial courses without knowing anything about your capabilities when you should be in advanced courses. I've experienced all of these things.

As I stated earlier, I don't put a lot of weight on these things, but I also won't say they don't exist. While there can be intradiscrimination among whites (Irish, Polish, Jewish, etc) at the end of the day, you are all white. It simply isn't the same.

Blacks in America have a unique history mainly because we were not really immigrants, but also because the discrimination was so pervasive and actually codified into law. Sometimes I think people really don't get how bad it was not even a generation ago. My mother is old enough to have been drinking out of colored water fountains.

This is not to say we can't move on. One issue I've pointed out in other threads is that I think the civil rights movement was too successful in that white people accepted it was wrong and have largely moved on treating everyone equally. On the other hand, the black community has not forgotten and still lives under a victimization mentality that there is still rampant discrimination so there is this disconnect between the two groups as to the state of race relations.

a reply to: JDeLattre89
Those two companies that specifically didn't hire you because you are a veteran have just opened themselves up for a discrimination lawsuit. I hope that you have proof of that claim.

As a veteran, I don't advocate for special treatment because of my veteran status, but I certainly abhor discrimination because of it.

a reply to: Edumakated

Your response is enlightening. Thank you. I've learned something.

originally posted by: Edumakated


This is not to say we can't move on. One issue I've pointed out in other threads is that I think the civil rights movement was too successful in that white people accepted it was wrong and have largely moved on treating everyone equally. On the other hand, the black community has not forgotten and still lives under a victimization mentality that there is still rampant discrimination so there is this disconnect between the two groups as to the state of race relations.

I think you hit the nail on the head. 98% of Whites have changed while there still remains a few malcontents as always in any group. White Privilege is just one more excuse to cover for the failures within the Black community to move ahead (statistically Blacks were doing better before Civil Rights - higher incomes and marriage rates which I believe is crucial). I blame the welfare state which encourages single-parent households led by women. The financial incentive is there so why work when you will get less money? The other stumbling block is that to succeed financially one must mainstream themselves in to the larger society which is primarily White. Yet Blacks will call others Uncle Tom for doing so. Learning and school are shunned leading to high rates of dropouts.

Minorities now actually have advantages that others do not per employment quotas, college admissions (SAT grade curving), grants, etc. I truly believe the playing field is level now but it's up to each person to carry themselves forward to achieve their dreams. Nobody is holding them back but themselves.