North Korea numbers stations active

Interesting side note I learned while checking my memory for the above post... the newer North Korean station is the only one in the world that sends some broadcasts on FM frequencies. Actually four FM frequencies. They started that toward the end of December last year. This indicates due to the relative short range of this mode of transmission, it's intended for fairly local consumption. Obviously for people they have in South Korea. Not a shocker as everyone knows they have assets there.

South Korea and possibly U.S.resources there (?) routinely jam them. So not sure how effective they are.

It's definitely hard to bridge that gap between a transmission and linking it to a real world event. That's why I was wondering if any examples came from spy trials or other means. Thanks for filling in the blanks.

originally posted by: Sagacity
a reply to: FlyingFox

I've been interested in these types of transmissions since I was a child with a shortwave radio in the late 70s. For years I consumed any information out there about them. Obviously this was well before the internet, so most information and research came in the form of amateur radio magazines and books at the time.

There are still numbers stations transmitting in various modes and formats occurring all over the world every few minutes. Although much fewer in number than during the cold war, they are still quite prevalent today. I have no doubt that real world actions have and do occur based on the information received on the other end. You'll never find the correlation between the two though.

Even if you had the appropriate one time pad in your possession and proper protocol was ignored and they reused a set of codes, you'd still be left with a coded message that wouldn't be of much use. You wouldn't translate and see,"Move the assets to the fifth street bridge downtown tomorrow." What you would probably see is something like,"prioritize and continue to strengthen friendship with Joe and Dennis". That's exactly what one of the messages was decoded as during a fairly famous trial of some Cuban spies here in the U.S. in 1998. The only reason we even got that much information is because the Cubans were using a computer program and not straight paper pads to translate the received information. The only other way to decode as was mentioned is for someone to use a one time pad decoding key more than once. People/enthusiasts who follow the stations say that the gvt can crack those messages now. If used properly though, it's fool proof to the best that anyone knows. That's why the system is still in use today.

They use voice, morse code, RTTY, and for a decade or more they have been also adding digital burst transmissions, adding data to subcarriers, polytones etc. Several hybrid transmissions send information in voice as well as adding in data in those methods. There are a couple like that which transmit the typical numbers by automated voice announcer, then add digital at the end. Amateur enthusiasts have taken that data and found that it can be reassembled ( in the case of a couple stations) into a microsoft .txt file of all things lol. File, however, is of course encrypted as well and can't be broken either. I think this was from some Latin American countries, and was very simplistic compared to the other data methods. I could be wrong on which countries stations used that. It's been awhile.

It's interesting stuff and I used to be really fascinated by it. Still am to a certain extent. But
I've a better chance of bumping into bigfoot in my shower than ever learning more

Back to the correlation between a station's transmission and real world events though. You have stations that transmit once a month, once a week, daily, several times a day etc. Add in that presumably many of these broadcasts are relaying that there is no new information or orders to forward. Changes in broadcast schedules and number of transmissions from a specific station can in itself be intentional dis-info. Then consider if there is an actionable order relayed, no one else knows on what timetable it is to occur or begin. The order sent could be meant to be executed a week or months in the future. Too many variables. Way too many to attach a specific set of transmissions to real world events.

NK has two known numbers stations, the old Radio Pyongyang and a newer one. Pyongyang was around in early 2000 and mostly quiet until last year and became active again mid last year. That part I had to look up heh. I hadn't monitored and didn't know it shut down for that long. I do know I heard it years ago though. That's the one mentioned in the tweet. It didn't just become active the other day. It's been playing that hokey intro and spewing code for awhile. The other has been around since about 2015 and stays active. It transmits daily, I'm not sure without looking up about Radio Pyongyang's broadcast times.

I'm not sure without looking up about Radio Pyongyang's broadcast times.

Someone actually using this cypher would be amplifying the signal at the appropriate time that their message was being sent. I doubt anything very sensitive would be sent that way, for a group with shared hyperthymesia presentation there are safer channels.

a reply to: FlyingFox

Yes, I think that simply the proof that they were decoding messages from a known source coming from Cuba, the ""Atención" station as it's called, was used to strengthen the espionage conviction here in the U.S. As far as it was revealed in court, the specific instructions to them were never known. They already knew or had serious suspicions that they were spies before they knew about them transcribing numbers transmissions. I say that because the FBI uncovered the computer program and shortwave radios when they entered the apartment.

I could recall some but had to look it up to remember some specifics:

Wikipedia link ...look about a third of the way down

The "Cuban Five"

Now get caught even today in some countries like Iran maybe Russia, and of course NK with a shortwave and even a pencil and paper near it and they won't look for other "evidence".

Cauliflower, you'll have to break that down a bit for me to assure I understand you correctly. Maybe I'm a bit slow today.

a reply to: Sagacity

You could google superheterodyne amplification to start?

a reply to: Cauliflower

Ah, familiar with the broad basics of that. Thanks : )

There are no chances for the west to overthrow by any means, the North Korean regime or to engage in any meaningful military action against North Korea, Syria, Iran or Venezuela. Moreovere any EU move at destabilization of the balkans will backfire on Europe.

...based on what? Last I checked, the west has been knocking off regimes left and right. These are to mention just the ones we know about.

a reply to: Perfectenemy

I've been familiar with number stations for a few years, but not heard of /pol/.....can you please pass me some more info / link if possible?

It's the political wing of 4chan

FFS - this is 2017 , not 1957 and in my opinion - " numbers stations " are now just psycholocical warfare [ i am not actually convinced they were anything else - ever ] - to project the threat - there is this thing called the internet - its reputedly rather popular - which can send any message of any complexity around the world almost instantly

a reply to: jholt5638

No worries as their Godzilla ripoff just became active again.

originally posted by: ignorant_ape
FFS - this is 2017 , not 1957 and in my opinion - " numbers stations " are now just psycholocical warfare [ i am not actually convinced they were anything else - ever ] - to project the threat - there is this thing called the internet - its reputedly rather popular - which can send any message of any complexity around the world almost instantly

Aside from being "reputedly rather popular", the internet is also known for it's lack of security where communications is concerned.

Number stations have existed for a long time because they work well. The internet can easily replace the broadcast as long as the recipient has an internet connection.

That doesn't mean that the NK setup is anything more than a bluff.

a reply to: roadgravel

Oh I certainly agree with what you are stating. One way communications via one-time pads by numbers stations do work well. It's effective and used properly, the system is very secure, arguably unbreakable. That' why they are still around.

The internet can be used for similar communications by various methods as well. I'd still say that imho that it is a less secure method. Simply accessing the internet by a computer leaves a trail regardless of the methods used to provide the information to the recipient.

As for NK broadcasts or any of the others that are sent every few minutes around the globe being a bluff etc who knows? Due to the amount of traffic that goes out, I'd think it's safe to assume that the majority of the messages aren't some sort of operational instructions or whatever anyway. Many are quite likely inane and sending the instructions that there are no current instructions so to speak. But there's been way too much going on worldwide by many many countries for years to discount the use completely. Information is being relayed at times.

No doubt there is an element of psychological warfare going on too. I'm sure people on this side perked up when NK restarted an old station and cranked up a new one last year.

As a reference to the above post regarding the volume of transmissions going on in various places, here's a link to a website that publishes known broadcasts that listening enthusiasts compile: Schedule

The website has information explaining the naming system and prefixes used as well.

I've had an interest in this for a long time. When there is a need, man will find a way.

originally posted by: ignorant_ape
FFS - this is 2017 , not 1957 and in my opinion - " numbers stations " are now just psycholocical warfare [ i am not actually convinced they were anything else - ever ] - to project the threat - there is this thing called the internet - its reputedly rather popular - which can send any message of any complexity around the world almost instantly

In many ways it still is 1957 in North Korea.

a reply to: PistolPete

Unfortunately for the citizens there.