How would you convince ATS?

Yes you, the skeptical one!

We've all seen the topics, some posts photos, some posts videos. Lets take videos for example, here's Example topic 1:

~ In the topic a video is posted regarding a paranormal event, or cryptozoological organism, or an alien/UFO sighting.
~ The video is brief, a bit blurry, and the object we're looking at is a bit at a distance, but not too far away that you can't make out the shape.

Verdict: The video is fake! It's too difficult to make out anything (you've determined), the video is too short, and your conclusion is "fake"

Example topic 2:

~ In the topic a video is posted regarding one of the same things listed above.
~ The video is very long, it's quite clear, the video quality is pretty good, the object we're looking at has a decent amount of 'frame time', you can see it clearly

Vertict: The video is fake! You've decided that it's too clear and therefore must be CG generated, a person in a suit, some kind of special effects, and so forth. It's also too long, therefore you've concluded that it must be a set up, and therefore is fake.

What exactly would convince you? Be skeptical, it's a good thing, but honesty think to yourself, what would convince you through video/photographic evidence? If you can't think of a scenario, then you're not being skeptical, you're just blindly dismissing everything.

Consider this!

Scenario 1:

Your at home, it's getting late, it's time to go to sleep. You shut off the lights, head to your bedroom, you're the only one home. You're under your covers, it's been about 5 minutes and since you're tired you almost pass out.

Suddenly a small noise is heard from your kitchen. you jump up and grab your smartphone and if you'd like you also grab a weapon (why not!). you open your bedroom door and look down the hallway. You turn on the hallway light, the kitchen is at the end, still dark. You make it to your kitchen, the window is cracked open, you forgot to close it. You turn on the light in the kitchen, no one is there so you assume the wind must of rattled something.

You close the window, turn off the light and turn around, and outside the glass patio doors something triggers the motion sensor light. A strange bipedal creature is moving along your porch, it doesn't see you. You take out your phone, you start filming. It spots your movement in the house, runs off into the woods, and it's gone.

You run out of the house with your weapon and phone, but you don't see it again that night. You managed to take a 30 second video before your phone's battery died out, the quality isn't great, the creature was spotted, but kind of blurry.

How do you convince ATS?


Scenario 2:

It's been 2 months since your first encounter with that creature, but since then it's come back every night that it's been a clear sky and warm. You notice the pattern, and you have access to several trail cameras, audio equipment, and even a thermal camera. The quality on all is top notch, you borrowed it from your cousin.

It's going to be a warm night tonight; cloudless.

How do you convince ATS with video/audio footage only?

Now, we all know that some people here won't believe anything unless they themselves have seen it. So when I ask "How do you convince ATS" I'm speaking as a majority.

I'm just curious, particularly from a perspective of a person who almost always claims any video on such a subject is a fake in some way (although i'd like to hear from others too), how would you go about by convincing us that what you saw was real?

a reply to: Ghost147

Just catch it in a bear trap. And let it out when and only when it agrees in writing to take a selfie with you.

a reply to: Ghost147

A dead body.

Again... Using video footage only... lol

Pictures or it didn't happen.

All we can do is either

1. Take you for your word.

2. Just call it bull crap.

It's 50/50.

Just share your story and don't be discouraged.

For me as a critic more than a flat out denier/skeptic I prefer to see details - something up close and personal that displays features that move naturally, and a form that flows with the lighting and backdrop seamlessly. A little otherworldliness wouldn't go amiss either. If it's weird, fits with the scene and I can see details you will have my undivided attention, and I am guessing others would be the same.

For me personally I try not to just call everything out as hoax, it's only if it has displayed characteristics that deviate from the above. I work in digital media (mostly photoshop and web development these days, but I have experience in 3d modeling, compositing and general cgi through numerous platforms), and there are normally giveaways you tend to notice. With experience in the same realms that the hoaxers come from, you often can see the hallmarks of "digital intervention"

Tip number one, heavy compression is used to hide poor compositing. No one is using a recording device that bad anymore, and even if they are and it is legitimate, there isn't enough data to go on to prove or disprove. 10/10 times the more outlandish the video the more heavily compressed it is as it takes much more skill to composite accurately.

We're a tricky bunch to please I will admit that, but its not because we don't want to believe, we just all individually have our own tickboxes to check before we jump into the deep end

a reply to: Ghost147

For the majority, You can't "convince" them.
They already have their mind made up before they click the thread.

Pics with intact original exif data would be a good start.

But if the pics are admittedly unclear by the photographer I don't see how realistically the investigation would get that far..

I'd say honestly you couldn't unless you had physical proof and in the scenerio presented there is none.

For the record I am open to the idea of the paranormal or alien encounter..

But unfortunately I have not seen proof yet .


Respectfully,
~meathead

originally posted by: Macenroe82
a reply to: Ghost147

For the majority, You can't "convince" them.
They already have their mind made up before they click the thread.

I have been on both sides. When I first joined ATS, I believed in many things.
After awhile, my bubble burst, and became very skeptical.
Now, I take in info , research it best I can before coming to a conclusion.

That is called critical thinking. ATS taught me that, be I still fall prey.

Taking a video or picture and story as proof of something from a single source and believing it is just based on who presents this and their credibility .
Still doesn't make it true. It's a judgement call.

a reply to: Ghost147

I do remember some cases were people documented their encounters with unknown entities but i don't recall if they got debunked or not. I especially recall a farm owner who got visited by an creature and it was even spotted in his house but the videos didn't show anything conclusive. That was ages ago though. There was a alleged alien autopsy on YT a few years back. It was some kind of green creature and it killed a dog before getting shot by the owner. It was pretty detailed but i doubt anyone believed it even if it was the real deal. To be honest i wouldn't post any proof at all. People can be really cruel and even attempt to destroy your life if they think you're wrong. The internet is full of bad examples.

Don't forget the secret government agencies that handle those cases. Plenty of mysterious suicides and accidents happen all around this particular subject. I guess if you are willing to ignore all of these hazards of exposure then the best way would be posting it on mutiple sites where pople can screenshot and save it for future references and investigations. I don't think for a second that ATS would allow it to remain for very long in the first place though. Just look at all the Antarctica threads that mysteriously disappeared.

If you want to take another approach then just try to get it broadcasted on live tv without going or alerting the authorities first. However you need to be aware of the fact that every person that you came in contact with would've a huge target on their backs soon after. I'm kinda glad that i don't have to be convinced because i got my own experiences that became part of my new reality. Most people are still not ready to learn the truth and i don't believe disclosure is right around the corner. Too many lies have already piled up and exposing all of them could have catastrophic consequences.

originally posted by: constant_thought
For me as a critic more than a flat out denier/skeptic I prefer to see details - something up close and personal that displays features that move naturally, and a form that flows with the lighting and backdrop seamlessly. A little otherworldliness wouldn't go amiss either. If it's weird, fits with the scene and I can see details you will have my undivided attention, and I am guessing others would be the same.

For me personally I try not to just call everything out as hoax, it's only if it has displayed characteristics that deviate from the above. I work in digital media (mostly photoshop and web development these days, but I have experience in 3d modeling, compositing and general cgi through numerous platforms), and there are normally giveaways you tend to notice. With experience in the same realms that the hoaxers come from, you often can see the hallmarks of "digital intervention"

Tip number one, heavy compression is used to hide poor compositing. No one is using a recording device that bad anymore, and even if they are and it is legitimate, there isn't enough data to go on to prove or disprove. 10/10 times the more outlandish the video the more heavily compressed it is as it takes much more skill to composite accurately.

We're a tricky bunch to please I will admit that, but its not because we don't want to believe, we just all individually have our own tickboxes to check before we jump into the deep end

Very well written post! I have the same view as you, and coming from the same digital arts background. It is tremendously easy to fake such things now a days and there's always room for skepticism because of that. But I would have to agree with you that close up, high detail video footage would be the best way to go about convincing me.

originally posted by: Ghost147
Again... Using video footage only... lol

Not even videos can be trusted anymore.

physical evidence is the only evidence that can be accepted with extraordinary claims.

You and I could both fake a pretty good photo. That experience alone should skew you towards a need for physical evidence.

a reply to: Ghost147

Immediately comes to mind.. .

(Paraphrasing here Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proofs for those that do not believe. ..and for those who DO believe. ..no extraordinary proof is necessary.

Also you can lead a horse to water.. .but can't make him drink it.

You can't convince some people.

You have to have a good balance.

You have those who eat up everything and believe everything. They are the ones who opened up the box their minds are in so far, their brains have fallen out.

You have those that say everything is fake, no way anything could be real. They are ones who's box is so closed up tight, that their brains have suffocated.

In my years here on ATS, I've seen plenty of fakes, and plenty of bonafide unexplainible things. I've seen those who want to believe in something so bad, they get quite angry when someone even dares question it, and even more angry when it get's proven to be a hoax. I've also seen it the other way around, those who will give even the most asinine excuse for something because they simply can not for one second believe that something strange might exist.

I'd done my fair share of debunking on here, and even had at times the person who presented it agree that in the end, it was faked, or a case of mistaken ID.

But there have been other things I've seen on here, tried to debunk, and utterly failed to do so, and admitted on here that I had no idea what it could be.

Part of the problem in today's world is digital manipulation of both images and video. Too many times things can be faked, and in a very realistic manner. Whenever anyone on here posts a photo that they claimed to have taken, and then refuses to upload the RAW image so we can look at the EXIF data always throws up a red flag for me.

Too many YouTubers out there willing to do anything to gain clicks on their channels so they can monetize them.

Too many looking for their 15 minutes of fame, or just do it because they really think they can outsmart everyone else.

That is why you have so many who are going to be skeptical right away, and so many of them have been burned in the past for believing in something that ended up being a fake or a scam, it really ticks them off. Why open up your mind after that?

Because it's so easy to fake things in today's world, and it's done a lot by those who want attention, I think now it's going to take actual physical evidence. We need a a piece of that UFO......a capture of that creature, etc.