We live in a simulation

a reply to: Black_Fox

insaaaneee

originally posted by: swanne
a reply to: Spacespider

Ugh. Not this again.

Ever since the Matrix movies. "Reality isn't real! " A bit like saying "water isn't water! " or "my parent's basement isn't a basement! " or "politicians aren't after your money! "

If reality truly is a "simulation" spanning some 93 billions light-years, then who's the poor programmer who hit the "run" button over 13 billion years ago, and who programmed him? It's just a circular argument, not unlike creationism, meant to entertain the delusion that Reality, in all its ugliness, is somewhat "not real". It's a disappointing, ostrich-like concept.

Our concept of time could be isolated to our simulation.
Time and date are easy to set on your computer
Why push the run button ? Because he can, as we play with VR games or watching animal planet because we can, and nature fascinate us.

originally posted by: swanne

originally posted by: Spacespider

originally posted by: EmmanuelGoldstein
I just pulled out my pocket knife and sliced my hand open a little.
It's bleeding.
This "pain" program is some pretty advanced stuff. It hurts so bad I almost believe it's real.

the pain mod is necessary for the avatars to take the simulation seriously.
There are a glitch in some avatars that lack the ability to feel pain, that is not a good think as one would think.
Check this out

No, not a glitch. Just a neural problem.

I am colour-blind myself. It's not a glitch, it's just that my eyes lack the chemical structures that usually emit a signal upon receiving an electromagnetic radiation.

No "advanced aliens simulation" needed.

The animal born in the zoo also thinks the whole world is the cage it lives in.
This simulated universe theory cannot be confirmed or unconfirmed at this point..
not yet that is

a reply to: Spacespider

So Time wouldn't exist outside our "simulation", right?

Then how does the programmer of our "simulation" get to program our simulation if he ain't got any time to do so?

originally posted by: swanne
a reply to: Spacespider

So Time wouldn't exist outside our "simulation", right?

Then how does the programmer of our "simulation" get to program our simulation if he ain't got any time to do so?

Yes..
But if our universe is a piece of software.. time is not relevant to us
Everything, matter and time is not reality and it is all controlled.
Perhaps you have watched the series called Westworld.
Those robots think they are human and think they have a past and think they live in a place with history.
But they are just programmed to have those memories to make them more "real"
In our case.. we would not be robots.. we would but simple bits and bytes, even more easy to control

a reply to: Spacespider

Oh, I have seen Westworld all right. Not really impressed. It's basically a Western-themed Matrix movie mixed with Hannibal. But I diverge.

My point is that the "simulation" argument is incredibly more complex (and circular) then simply recognising Reality's, um, "realness".

I mean, think about it. The simulation argument basically implies that

-the content of the entire universe, including all of its volume and quantum jitter (which is a chaotic level of energy which exists even in a perfect vacuum), is stored as information on some sort of storage device.

-the storage device also has to accommodate for 13 billion years worth of data, with a frame rate at the level of Planck time.

-that's not all. Somehow this storage device, which contains all this ludicrous quantity of data, is somehow small enough for it to be accessible in real-time by a program (for instance, the storage device can't be 10 light-years large, because otherwise the program would only be able to execute one operation per decade even at full blast light speed).

-then there's the program itself. Somehow it is a software capable of magically access all of the storage device's data at will and simultaneously, regardless of the sheer size of the data block. It computes the physical laws and trajectories of every single particles in the Universe. But that's not all! It then magically materialises the computed particles trajectory into a real-time, live simulation. Even though the "simulation" is an universe some whopping 93 light-years wide, the simulation has absolutely no latency; even though my damn audio interface has latency issues with my guitar only ten feet away.

-Also, as a bonus, "Time" is an illusion, and there's no such thing outside of the simulation. In which case, Time does not exist wherever the program computer is located. Which means that the computer must access all data of the infinitely-large storage device, compute the trajectories and positions of all particles of the simulation, and perform the updates of the simulation itself... all that in zero time.

a reply to: swanne

Can I just say..
I love you, and the way you think
I will make sure you get a upgrade

originally posted by: swanne
a reply to: Spacespider

Oh, I have seen Westworld all right. Not really impressed. It's basically a Western-themed Matrix movie mixed with Hannibal. But I diverge.

My point is that the "simulation" argument is incredibly more complex (and circular) then simply recognising Reality's, um, "realness".

I mean, think about it. The simulation argument basically implies that

-the content of the entire universe, including all of its volume and quantum jitter (which is a chaotic level of energy which exists even in a perfect vacuum), is stored as information on some sort of storage device.

-the storage device also has to accommodate for 13 billion years worth of data, with a frame rate at the level of Planck time.

-that's not all. Somehow this storage device, which contains all this ludicrous quantity of data, is somehow small enough for it to be accessible in real-time by a program (for instance, the storage device can't be 10 light-years large, because otherwise the program would only be able to execute one operation per decade even at full blast light speed).

-then there's the program itself. Somehow it is a software capable of magically access all of the storage device's data at will and simultaneously, regardless of the sheer size of the data block. It computes the physical laws and trajectories of every single particles in the Universe. But that's not all! It then magically materialises the computed particles trajectory into a real-time, live simulation. Even though the "simulation" is an universe some whopping 93 light-years wide, the simulation has absolutely no latency; even though my damn audio interface has latency issues with my guitar only ten feet away.

-Also, as a bonus, "Time" is an illusion, and there's no such thing outside of the simulation. In which case, Time does not exist wherever the program computer is located. Which means that the computer must access all data of the infinitely-large storage device, compute the trajectories and positions of all particles of the simulation, and perform the updates of the simulation itself... all that in zero time.

Is not that much of a stretch.

20 years ago, when 1k of RAM cost well over a thousand dollars, no one would have imagined that in today's age we have RAM in the gigabytes that cost a fraction of that 1K years ago.

a reply to: nightbringr

Lol it'll take just a tad more than one RAM gigabyte to store the content of the entire universe.

Just to give you a general idea, the amount of particles in the Universe is estimated to be about 100,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,
000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,
000 particles.

That's not counting the Time dimension. You have to divide 13 billion years worth of Time by the Planck time, and multiply the result by those 100,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,
000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,
000 particles. And this number you'll get isn't even the number of butes you'll need - you also need the data for the kinetic energy of every particles, the direction, the charge of each particles, the spin, etc.

One gigabyte is cute, but laughable compared to what storing the Universe's data would actually require.

originally posted by: Spacespider

originally posted by: SolAquarius
I have entairtained the idea that we live in a simulation for a while as possibility but not as an actuality.
In one sense we live in simulation of our brains that recreate an external world based of f our senses.
I'm suspicious though of why this idea that we live in a simulation is suddenly being seeded in the human collective consciousness along with the idea that robots are going to take are jobs and this push towards transhumanism. I feel there is a bigger picture

In the end it really does not matter if we do..
Because this "simulation/reality" is all we got.

Its like the happy animal in the zoo, might as well be

Hmm the whole simulation idea just seems to be a modern technological take on Gnostic Ideas or Eastern concepts of Maya and Samara. Or mystic ideas that we are trapped in a dream or world of illusions.
Maybe we see the universe through through the framework of where we are as a species since we are at a level of development where computers are all the rage we might see the universe as a computer much like when clocks and gears became all the rage people used clock maker and machine analogy's to describe the universe.
I guess I find it similar to the hypothesis that where we once saw gods elves and various beings we now see ufos and space beings since we have become technological and started exploring space.

a reply to: Aliensun

While I agree, as I can recall, we all have different duties here. I'm supposed to "experience" this life. Also, free will exists here.
This has bothered me since I was a child. I remember sitting in a room with a lady who was going through different aspects of my life, telling me what was coming. I remember her asking me if I wanted to know how I die and that our essence doesn't experience it. That we are escorted from our body prior to experiencing death. Also, I'm pretty sure I was paid to be here and I remember choosing to have my karmic due balance paid while I was here versus when I left. When I chose it to be here, I can clearly recall her saying, "it's just easier that way." The reason we have death in this simulation is not for punishment but to help those around us find closure when it was our time to go. I also remember her saying that they didn't use to kill people off, they would just take them but relatives would search for the missing people which caused a lot of strife and suffering.
That is my earliest memory. I'm 44 years old and I have carried that with me for my entire life without telling anyone until today. Js. I don't care who believes it. I KNOW it to be true and that's good enough for me.

originally posted by: Spacespider

originally posted by: xbeta
a reply to: Spacespider

I didnt understand. do you mean like life?

Our entire universe is a open world mmo game
Created by a advance race.

That I can believe. Its been the sort of mindset when I consider life after.
I have been trying to make sense of all this in a method I can comprehend since my "experiences" with paranormal stuff that makes no sense in any logical sense, and given I basically reject religion and most spiritual concepts seem totally hokey and crystal gazing stoner talk, the whole VR chamber thing attracts me as a closer truth.

If true, I wonder how old we are.

originally posted by: swanne
a reply to: nightbringr

Lol it'll take just a tad more than one RAM gigabyte to store the content of the entire universe.

Just to give you a general idea, the amount of particles in the Universe is estimated to be about 100,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,
000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,
000 particles.

That's not counting the Time dimension. You have to divide 13 billion years worth of Time by the Planck time, and multiply the result by those 100,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,
000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,
000 particles. And this number you'll get isn't even the number of butes you'll need - you also need the data for the kinetic energy of every particles, the direction, the charge of each particles, the spin, etc.

One gigabyte is cute, but laughable compared to what storing the Universe's data would actually require.

Yes, but you are thinking with our current mindset.

Some scientists have proposed that advanced civilizations could create things like dyson spheres. You do know how large those are, and how much power they would produce, correct?

So why is something like RAM many billions of billions of trillions times larger than we have now such a stretch, especially when you consider quantum computing. You are blindly refusing to believe in advancements far beyond our current grasp.

a reply to: nightbringr

There is such a thing as a limit on how much data you can store on a given space. Make data take smaller and smaller space, and the data will ultimately get scrambled by the Uncertainty Principle.

Even if you could store data on a single particle, storing the volume of the universe would still take all the volume of the universe to store.

originally posted by: SaturnFX

originally posted by: Spacespider

originally posted by: xbeta
a reply to: Spacespider

I didnt understand. do you mean like life?

Our entire universe is a open world mmo game
Created by a advance race.

That I can believe. Its been the sort of mindset when I consider life after.
I have been trying to make sense of all this in a method I can comprehend since my "experiences" with paranormal stuff that makes no sense in any logical sense, and given I basically reject religion and most spiritual concepts seem totally hokey and crystal gazing stoner talk, the whole VR chamber thing attracts me as a closer truth.

If true, I wonder how old we are.

Maybe we are nothing but Dolls who are either reincarnated or lost to the void depending on what our arbiter decides in a bar game in the afterlife like in "death parade".

a reply to: Spacespider

I cashed my simulated paycheck today

originally posted by: swanne
a reply to: nightbringr

There is such a thing as a limit on how much data you can store on a given space. Make data take smaller and smaller space, and the data will ultimately get scrambled by the Uncertainty Principle.

Even if you could store data on a single particle, storing the volume of the universe would still take all the volume of the universe to store.

Not if only what we see is what is simulated. Areas that intelligent minds haven't discovered wouldn't require simulating, and quantum superposition and entanglement can be used to give this theory weight.

Besides, much more intelligent minds than you or I believe that not only is it possible, it is probable, including, but not limited to Elon Musk and Hawking.

No offence, but they are much smarter than both of us combined, so I'm sure they have taken any objection you have posted and disregarded them as they still believe it a possibility.

a reply to: Spacespider

If we are in a simulation...we arent real....really

originally posted by: mysterioustranger
If we are in a simulation...we arent real....really

Real enough for government work.

DOUBLE