Alien Sky: The Lightning Scarred Planet, Mars (Full Documentary)

originally posted by: BakedCrusader
a reply to: MasterAtArms

Heck, water surface tension is enough to keep water together in a vacuum

In this example the water is in the vacuum itself so it doesn't get "sucked", in the case of the Earth you have a vacuum that is next to pressurised air. Big difference.

The entire earth, and its sphere of atmosphere, is completely surrounded by a vacuum. Where would it get "sucked" to? Home come all the dust on the surface of the moon doesn't get "sucked" off? what is keeping all the gaseous mass of Jupiter together while surrounded by a vacuum?

Anyway, its 2.15am, and I'm going to bed. Have fun

a reply to: MasterAtArms

I don't think you understand how pressure works, or how your example is entirely not-relevant to the point you think you are trying to make

Really, yet you are the one that still hasn't explained what exactly is pushing the balloon. Is it anything other than particles that are doing the pushing?

A vacuum cleaner is a pressure differential machine. So is an internal combustion engine, jet engines, breathing, farting.... None of which are weaker than the weak gravitation force and therefore easily overcome it. ~but~ just because gravity is weak, doesn't mean it has zero effect

So again, why doesn't vacuum of space, which has a pressure differential with the atmosphere, suck up the entire atmosphere? Space is a "pressure differential machine".

And it is a fact that a vacuum is stonger than gravity, even at ground level. So again, what is keeping the atmosphere from being sucked away?

Not gravity. It is too weak.

originally posted by: MasterAtArms

originally posted by: BakedCrusader
a reply to: MasterAtArms

Heck, water surface tension is enough to keep water together in a vacuum

In this example the water is in the vacuum itself so it doesn't get "sucked", in the case of the Earth you have a vacuum that is next to pressurised air. Big difference.

The entire earth, and its sphere of atmosphere, is completely surrounded by a vacuum

And thus, there is a pressure differential, in your example, there is no pressure differential between the place where the water sits, and the rest of the closed environment. Again, huge difference.

originally posted by: BakedCrusader
a reply to: MasterAtArms

I don't think you understand how pressure works, or how your example is entirely not-relevant to the point you think you are trying to make

Really, yet you are the one that still hasn't explained what exactly is pushing the balloon. Is it anything other than particles that are doing the pushing?

A vacuum cleaner is a pressure differential machine. So is an internal combustion engine, jet engines, breathing, farting.... None of which are weaker than the weak gravitation force and therefore easily overcome it. ~but~ just because gravity is weak, doesn't mean it has zero effect

So again, why doesn't vacuum of space, which has a pressure differential with the atmosphere, suck up the entire atmosphere? Space is a "pressure differential machine"

And itt is a fact that a vacuum is stonger than gravity, even at ground level. So again, what is keeping the atmosphere from being sucked away?

Not gravity. It is too weak.

Ok, one last reply before I go to bed.

You agree that gravity exists, and you agree it is weak, but there.
You understand that gravity is generated by mass.

A vacuum is a lack of mass, hence it cannot create gravity. So a lack of gravity in a vacuum will always have less force application than any kind of gravity created by any kind of mass.

To be clear, talking about open empty space here, such as the environment the earth is surrounded by which has no natural gravity, and not at ground level on earth where obviously there is still gravity from the earth which will continue to propagate in any earth-bound vacuum environment,

in your example, there is no pressure differential between the place where the water sits, and the rest of the closed environment

Are you saying that in a vacuum a collection of water molecules have no pressure? in space, any collection of particles will be generating their own, extremely weak gravity which will clump them up together generating internal pressure, even if miniscule. Otherwise, as I said before, literally nothing but subatomic particles would exist

a reply to: MasterAtArms

You completely failed to address the issue. Funny how that happens to be the issue I centered my argument around. If you can't explain what exactly it is that is pushing against the balloon you have just proven my point.

And no, I don't agree gravity exists, just pointing out that if it exists, it is demonstrably too weak to contain the atmosphere.

a reply to: BakedCrusader

And no, I don't agree gravity exists

So whats keeping you on the earth and not being sucked upwards though the atmosphere into the vacuum of space? using your own argument here.... Whetever is keeping you here, is keeping everything else here too - including the atmosphere

You completely failed to address the issue

I have explained, in a very simple way, how pressure works. I am sorry you cannot even grasp that very simple concept

a reply to: MasterAtArms

I have explained, in a very simple way, how pressure works. I am sorry you cannot even grasp that very simple concept

What is pushing against the bottom of the balloon. Simply saying "pressure" is not going to cut it. Pressure is a concept, it is not a physical thing. So what is pushing against the bottom of the balloon?

a reply to: MasterAtArms

So whats keeping you on the earth and not being sucked upwards though the atmosphere into the vacuum of space? using your own argument here.... Whetever is keeping you here, is keeping everything else here too - including the atmospher

That's why I keep saying that gravity, the hypothetical force that pulls all matter down to the center of the Earth, does not exist, but instead a Law that says that denser matter goes down and less dense matter goes up.

And if the space is real and is a vacuum then there has to be some sort of solid barrier.

a reply to: BakedCrusader

nothing is pushing the bottom of the balloon. The surrounding pressure is trying to crush the balloon. but since the balloon contains something (gas), it cannot be totally crushed - the atoms of gas have to go somewhere, and it cant go down because the pressure is even higher below it. It can only go up, until it reached pressure equilibrium. It doesn't continue to go upwards for ever.

And you haven't answered my question - if you don't think gravity exists, and the vacuum of space will "suck" (your words) everything into it, why are you still on the surface of the planet?

Why do I detect hints of thinly veiled domed-flat-earthiness from you? your claims have all the hallmarks and bear no resemblance whatsoever to electric universe theory, which although laughable, is the topic of this thread and still relies on gravitational theory



Define "down" and "up" in a three dimensional vacuum (space) ?

EDIT:

And if the space is real and is a vacuum then there has to be some sort of solid barrier.

Bingo, there we go, a domed flat earther!

a reply to: MasterAtArms

If the pressure below is higher than above it then the particles below it are pushing the balloon up. Again, pressure is a concept, not a physical thing. The only thing that can make the ballon go up are air particles moving, and pushing it up.

If this is not the case, then the whole pressure gradiant theory falls apart.

a reply to: BakedCrusader

pressure is a concept

Pressure makes your breathing work, your vacuum cleaner example work and so many other things. Pressure keeps the fizzy drink not-fizzy in its container. It is not a concept, its a real thing. Heck, pressure is keeping your hot air balloon inflated.

a reply to: MasterAtArms

Define "down" and "up" in a three dimensional vacuum (space) ?

Since I showed you that gravity doesn't exist, there obviously is an absolute up and down in the scenario I propose.

And since I showed that gravity cannot contain the atmosphere, there has to be a barrier if space is a vacuum.

originally posted by: BakedCrusader
a reply to: MasterAtArms

Define "down" and "up" in a three dimensional vacuum (space) ?

Since I showed you that gravity doesn't exist, there obviously is an absolute up and down in the scenario I propose.

And since I showed that gravity cannot contain the atmosphere, there has to be a barrier if space is a vacuum.

You have no cohesive argument whatsoever that has "shown" anything. Anyway, its now very late and I have work tomorrow so will return in the morning

a reply to: MasterAtArms

It's a real concept.

Pressure is not pushing air into my lungs, it's particles pushing against other particles, because they are under pressure. It's still not the pressure that is doing the pushing.

originally posted by: BakedCrusader
a reply to: MasterAtArms

It's a real concept.

Pressure is not pushing air into my lungs, it's particles pushing against other particles, because they are under pressure. It's still not the pressure that is doing the pushing.

well done in both arguing the fact, and then confirming the fact of how pressure works and exists in one statement! Man, you are hilarious.

a reply to: MasterAtArms

Pressure is nothing but a whole lot of particles pushing against each other. If pressure is crushing the balloon it is because the air particles are pushing against the balloon. If the pressure below the balloon is higher, then particles below it are pushing up harder than that the particles above it are pushing down. If the balloon moves up because of a pressure gradiant it can only be because particles are moving up and pushing it up.

a reply to: MasterAtArms

Are you saying that in a vacuum a collection of water molecules have no pressure? in space, any collection of particles will be generating their own, extremely weak gravity which will clump them up together generating internal pressure, even if miniscule. Otherwise, as I said before, literally nothing but subatomic particles would exist

I am saying that your example does not apply to Earth's atmosphere and the vacuum of space next to it. And water is not air.

There is a pressure differential between the vacuum of space and the atmosphere and it is a fact that gravity if it exists, is not strong enough to keep air from flowing into a vacuum.

And at the same time it is strong enough to create this pressure that in turn is strong enough to cancel out gravity itself apparently.

a reply to: BakedCrusader
Wikipedia link

The Cavendish experiment, performed in 1797–1798 by British scientist Henry Cavendish, was the first experiment to measure the force of gravity between masses in the laboratory[1] and the first to yield accurate values for the gravitational constant.[2][3] Because of the unit conventions then in use, the gravitational constant does not appear explicitly in Cavendish's work. Instead, the result was originally expressed as the specific gravity of the Earth,[4] or equivalently the mass of the Earth. His experiment gave the first accurate values for these geophysical constants.

a reply to: BakedCrusader

Imagine one of those long balloons clowns make animals from. Fill it with water (for ease of demonstration). Now, since you also agree that air density increases the closer you get to the surface, grab the bottom of the balloon and squeeze. The water expands upwards. Now, while holding the bottom of the balloon still, grab the next handful of balloon and squeeze just a little less (because you are simulating slightly lower pressure a bit higher up). The water still goes UP

And again, the only reason the water moves up is because the particles that make up my hands and fingers are pushing against the particles of the balloon who are pushing against the particles of the water. The particles that make up my fingers actually move towards the water.

In the case of the helium balloon, air particles are pushing all around it but the particles at the bottom have enough pressure behind them to push up the balloon. They can only be pushing by moving up themselves.

Not that I am saying that this is what happens in reality when things go up, but if the pressure gradient causes matter to go up, then this is the only way it can be.

So it's either this or it is not caused by the pressure gradient.

a reply to: D8Tee

Your point?