The Dreamtime bubble

Originally the newcomers to Australia were taught the term Dreamtime from the native people of Australia.The original word being something like Altjira, it seems, as usual, there has been some confusion with the term and the understanding of it, along with the common usage of it. Here I would just like to take the basic concept and work with the idea. None the less, there seems to be some consensus as to what was generally meant. Also equated to it, was the word "stories".
So with the word dream, we have time tightly knitted together. What it seems to imply, is that Dreamtime is in some way is not as real as the nondream. In the film "the last wave" one aboriginal man says " A dream is just a shadow of something real"
So the nondream,if it exists at all would have to be reality and one could equate it with eternity. The dreaming itself differs from reality. It seems that all these concepts are so hard for many other cultures to grasp. Mainly, because we qualify our lives to be a reality.
It's a bit like a story, in most cases, it's a complete fantasy or a daydream that a writer has produced. We have no problems taking that as a fact. But when it comes to us creating our own life we qualify it as the only real thing.
Maybe, we all are living in Eternity and Dreamtime simultaneously. If this is true, it certainly answers a lot of our human dilemmas.

A standard definition for a dream is an event that once awake the subject forgets the dream in less than 5 seconds after having woken up. When it comes to experiences akin to dreams where the experience is maintained in memory beyond that interval?

Shamans in general do not consider those dreams but rather visions who's meaning is relatable to life beyond dreams.

The vision quest as defined and related not only to experiences during meditative states while conscious but also to these experiences. One can look at these events in generic ways and in relation to documentation of interpretations.

But I would emphasis that these are very personal experiences so "dream interpretation books"?

Forget that

Its your experience. So who is best to interpret it, given its a personal experience?

in relation to what in consideration is really personal.


One interpretation of such experiences is that our soul which is a part of us in every way is expressing itself.

From my perspective the other side of humanity and in proverb the other side of a coin.

a reply to: Kashai

Thanks for sharing your view Kashai, everything holds some kind of a message. It depends on current circumstances if one makes any sense out of it. For me, it has to have a certain flavor to get my attention.

a reply to: ancientthunder

Well, thak you for that. Your view is a view. Another view is one which is that of the Aboriginal people themselves. They know their own traditions and their history.

Some non aboriginal will argue that theirdream time is just a construct of their minds just like christaity, islam and others.

We could go on in this vien back and forth for weeks and ahcieve very little.

No one is suggesting that non aborginal people have to believe that the oboriginal dreamtime existed any more than oboriginal people do not have to beleve in whateve it is that chrisians and muslims believe in.

Apart from accepting and respecting what Aboiginal people bleive in, I dont realy see the point in this thread unless the point was to in some wy undermine the legitamcy of the aboriginal dreamtime.

a reply to: ancientthunder

a reply to: ancientthunder

.
Just some thoughts about Dream Time:

Aboriginal Dream Time may refer to an era before language, where there was no means to verbaly encode experience into a memory matrix. Experience was simply “this happened and then that happened;” it was STORY, and not conceptually encoded into an understanding.

Dreamtime was like a dream: a consecutive experience of moments without reference to past or future.

Consciousness evolved over time. First there was action, then the discernment of effective action, then the conceptualization of effective action. Then comes consciousness, and consciousness examining itself. Finally consciousness begins to control itself. Eventually everything becomes virtual. It’s all mind.
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a reply to: Azureblue

wy undermine the legitamcy of the aboriginal dreamtime.

Not in the least was it my intention to undermine, truthfully it was to open up to the many ways humans have of living and describing their life. It's about variety and appreciation for me. On the other hand, I can not pretend to be an Aboriginal. Nor do I want to, I honor my own tribe and at the same time honor all others.
But I do have two Aboriginal guides, who stand by me. Black swan and fire.

a reply to: Azureblue

Some non aboriginal will argue that theirdream time is just a construct of their minds just like christaity, islam and others.

Actually that is incorrect given one actually understands scripture...

Dreams have had a profound role in the Christian church since its beginning. Recently, I explained how understanding dreams is rooted in Hebraic history (read here), and today I'm going to expand on that to show the rich heritage of dream language and revelation bequeathed to the Christian church throughout its history.

In brief review, to set the stage—what God did long ago and throughout history—He does today and will continue to do always. Dream language is the language of the ages. This is one of the mysterious ways that God intersects our lives. He invades our comfort zones.

He visits us in the night and simply speaks to us.

Dreams, visions, and interpretations are a part of virtually every culture and religion on earth and have been throughout the ages. This is even truer for Judaism and Christianity than any of the religions, as Jews and Christians worship the one true God, Who is the Author of revelation. To accept dreaming as a legitimate medium for spiritual revelation and communication, then, is to follow the flow of history, including church history. So, what is that history?

www.charismamag.com...

Further reading.....

www.cwgministries.org...

In relation to Islam....

www.farhathashmi.com...

a reply to: ancientthunder


am a member of an Indigenous Culture

and in no way shape or form do I feel offended by your inquiry.

Would also add the based upon what are presented as the words of Jesus Christ, John the Baptist was the Reincarnation if Ezequiel.

Perhaps there is merit with all these theories. Some dreams may help our brains process our thoughts and the events of the day. Others may just be the result of normal brain activity and mean very little, if anything. Researchers are still trying to figure out exactly why we dream.

www.webmd.com...

In respect to Buddhism....

'Our birth is but a sleep and forgetting:
The Soul, that rises with us, our life's star,
Hath had elsewhere its setting,
And cometh from afar.

budsas.org...

originally posted by: ancientthunder
a reply to: Azureblue

wy undermine the legitamcy of the aboriginal dreamtime.

Not in the least was it my intention to undermine, truthfully it was to open up to the many ways humans have of living and describing their life. It's about variety and appreciation for me. On the other hand, I can not pretend to be an Aboriginal. Nor do I want to, I honor my own tribe and at the same time honor all others.
But I do have two Aboriginal guides, who stand by me. Black swan and fire.

thanks for the correction but just in case I was not the only person to ge this wrong, might I suggest that the best place to put intent in an article on ATS is right up front.

cheers

originally posted by: Kashai
a reply to: Azureblue

Some non aboriginal will argue that theirdream time is just a construct of their minds just like christaity, islam and others.

Actually that is incorrect given one actually understands scripture...


www.charismamag.com...

Further reading.....

www.cwgministries.org...

In relation to Islam....

www.farhathashmi.com...

Actually that is incorrect given one actually understands scripture...

You are correct that I have no knowledge of Scripture. I never will either as I am not religious. I consider religion the oldest form of mind control their is.

This has more to do with personal spiritual development and relatable mind sets than religion.

Excellent topic! I Had not heard of dream time before. I really like cimmerious' reply. As for my own thoughts... I believe that dream time is the fabric that reality is woven of. If reality is what IS, then dream time is what CAN be. While I believe cimmerious' idea to have great merit, I would rather posit that dream time wasn't referring to a time before consciousness, but is rather a concept attained during the process of evolving consciousness which he has so adroitly described.

Let me explain: you used the word, story. What if dream time was the method they used for explaining and understanding the method of making changes to the story? If reality is the story, that is happening, then in this sense dream time would be their way of interacting with that story; via consciousness, rather than just being unwitting puppets. In this sense, Dream time would be the source of both ingenuity and corruption. Freed from the strings of fate, one can either create beautifully or destroy.

A reply to: Azureblue
Ah... Yes. Religion IS the oldest form of mind control. At its root, its about controlling your OWN mind. But then the churches(seperate from the Church) do the opposite and use the techniques meant to free, to enslave.

But, that's drifting away from the op. To address your original concern, the op wasn't trying to undermine aboriginal beliefs, but rather using the belief of dream time in order to further understanding. He was proposing that it was relevant and his view of why.

ETA: in this sense then Dream time can have additional relevance to the abrahamic religions by giving some context to Original Sin

Original sin caused a loss of freedom of will...

The concept of original sin was first alluded to in the 2nd century by Irenaeus, Bishop of Lyon in his controversy with certain dualist Gnostics. Other church fathers such as Augustine also developed the doctrine,[2] seeing it as based on the New Testament teaching of Paul the Apostle (Romans 5:12–21 and 1 Corinthians 15:22) and the Old Testament verse of Psalms 51:5.[4][5][6][7][8] Tertullian, Cyprian, Ambrose and Ambrosiaster considered that humanity shares in Adam's sin, transmitted by human generation. Augustine's formulation of original sin was popular among Protestant reformers, such as Martin Luther and John Calvin, who equated original sin with concupiscence, affirming that it persisted even after baptism and completely destroyed freedom.[2] The Jansenist movement, which the Catholic Church declared to be heretical, also maintained that original sin destroyed freedom of will.[9]

en.wikipedia.org...


See one way of looking at it is that just like there is a certain way to develop the body, there is certain way to develop the mind.

Nature has rules and to understand the mind one must not break those rules.

If anything original sin has to do with thinking materialistically.

a reply to: Kashai

Well, see, I agree with that, but only partially. See, before the 'fall' which was the evolution of consciousness, we literally had no freedom. We were no different then an apple falling from a tree when the moment is ripe, or a stream bubbling up from a brook. There was no gap between a the occurrence of something and our reaction to it. We just flowed. Then, 'dreamtime'(if its as I perceive it and indeed not as cimmerious' described) or the evolution of consciousness, the ability to step back from reality onto out own minds and look around, make random connections, do things our way. Free will.

The part where I do agree with you is, by this happening, it drastically reduced out connectivity with the natural order of things. Which is why hatred fear etc seem far more rooted in humanity than go their opposites. Thays where the encroaching of free will happens, not as a loss of freedom, but a limitation that freedom places upon itself. Which is why its the original sin and why every man past from there has it too.

Of course something i've never seen the abrahamic religions where we get these terms from actually mention the flip side that actually makes original sin a bit of a misnomer. Yes, Dream time, or consciousness, the ability to step back and interact directly with the story, brings with it a bunch of negative ramifications. However if we struggle through these we can live even purer and more authentically then 'Adam walking in the garden with god'

a reply to: LucidWarrior


Original sin relates to consuming something that makes one as powerful as God. Becoming a god by believing that treating nature as something to value materialistically is irrelevant to spiritual development.

a reply to: LucidWarrior

Double post.

Dreams are just as real as anything else. Dreams are just a species of reality, and dreams can teach you just like a documentary, book, or lecture. Dreams are experiences that actually happen to you, just like how the things that happen to you during your day are experiences that happen to you.

This entire idea of "real" and "not real" is really a silly concept. Everything is "real". Whether something is correct or valid...well that's another rabbit hole.

An interesting thing about dreams is that they can vary in their "frame rate". Meaning, if you were to observe someone sleeping and dreaming for 10 minutes, they might be having a dream that appears to last hours and hours.

The frame rate is the speed at which we experience our reality. Perhaps the frame rate we experience during our "waking life" correlates in a similar way. Perhaps we are actually living in a dream of sorts, and days (instead of minutes) are passing outside of this dream to our real selves.

Perhaps every time you go to sleep and "dream" you are actually having a dream within a dream. Because you are essentially exponentially complexifiying the simulation (dream) that may account for the increased frame rate and "nutty" quality it seems to have. This might explain the odd situations and strange scenarios you find yourself in while dreaming.

EDIT: To further explore this, if you were to go to sleep and have a dream in one of your dreams, it might seem even crazier and weirder...