We Are The Center Of The Universe

Here is the rest and its from the Chief scientist from WMAP, Charles L. Bennett. Which sums it up nicely.

"I do think there is a bit of a psychological effect, people want to find unusual things."

a reply to: TheSpottedOwl

Everyone else seems to be arguing against you. Not me. I find the prospect fascinating. Say this is true, that we are after all the center of this universe. So what. What smattering of difference would it make. We are all on the verge of extinction so seems to me the whole question is moot.

originally posted by: PassiveInductor
Its a long long video, and I am watching and listening to it right now.

An amazing video! I watched the whole thing and there were many entertaining parts. Worth watching, all 90 minutes or so. Thanks for posting this.

Some comments:

1. The video is essentially an argument AGAINST our insignificance. The video argues that there is evidence we are strangely significant -- hyper significant! It comes right up against the idea hat there MAY be some "creator", (but I would not call this video any empty creationist viewpoint.)

2. (At around 59:00 in the Video) It appears that cosmic radiation is pointed towards us in a way that would appear different if we moved away from our solar system. In particular cosmic radiation seems to be in the same plane as our solar system -- aligned with our orbit around the sun. It seems impossible. but they explain it well.

3. (At around 53:00 in the Video) it appears that galaxies exist in concentric rings around our galaxy, and if we moved off of our galaxy to some other point, it would look different to us. If that is true, then it is very hard to explain how that would be unless our galaxy (at least) was at the center of the universe.

4. (At around 33:30 in the Video) One easy test to confirm we are at a special place would be to run the Michelson–Morley experiment on the moon (or Mars) and see if we could detect some "ethereal wind" at some location other than on Earth. Although this might not disprove the center of the universe hypothesis if the results were the same as on earth, if the results WERE DIFFERENT that would pretty much confirm the fact we are at the center of the universe, period. That would be a shocking result!

5. A secondary point that I really latched on to was the concept of living in a "Fine Tuned" universe -- where if even one small constant was off (gravitational constant, speed of light, etc.) things would completely fall apart. There is an incredible precision to the universe that is not explainable. Why is everything in the universe tuned for life on our planet?

So -- I really enjoyed the video. I have to say I am not 100% sold -- I can see how some of this stuff might be attributable to incorrect measurements, or failing to account for something like some cosmic "conservation of angular momentum" or something like that -- maybe a few basic principles that, when discovered, would explain all of this.

Finally, the Video concludes with a statement that we seem to have lost the idea that we are special in the universe, because the universe is sooo big. We are sooo small. We have come to believe we are insignificant. Our lives are short, what happens during our lives seems unimportant, what happens to our planet is of no consequence.

And yet -- as big as the universe is (and it is awfully big for sure) WE MAY BE the MOST IMPORTANT thing in this universe. Perhaps. That is what the Video suggests at the very end. We may be more special than we know.

Question: Does a big lottery winner really understand or appreciate how far-fetched it was that he or she won the lottery?

Thanks for posting this,

Best Regards

a reply to: PassiveInductor

Extremely well put.

Sorry double post, the universe went out of alignment there.

a reply to: muSSang

So...God is from Earth? Was on Earth? Lives....on Earth? Perhaps "planet 9" and the odd effects on the outer solar system is actually a cosmic remnant of the singularity prior to the big bang?

Maybe the Moon is the center...or the Sun?


....



Interesting thread.

a reply to: OneGoal

No I have done the geological and astrological measurements and by my calculations my anus is the centre of the universe wow imagine that.

a reply to: muSSang

So a fart is really a blessing of the highest magnitude. Pure genius.

a reply to: TheSpottedOwl All is misconception. They make the quick assumption that if we observe CMB correlations been the sun-earth plane and the plane of the universe thus means we are the center. Totally wrong. Trollish and absurd. But scientists tend to do so, so I forgive them. The real truth that shines from this article is that There is yet another proof for structural, geometrical and systematically exact correlations between parts of the existence itself. What's above so is below. If you were to live on Sirius or other star system you would observer the same result with the CMB test. Yes God exist, but no we are not special. Unless if we look at it differently. If you leave the objectivity and look from personal existence mechanism - then the Truth is that You are the center of the universe, but I shall not discuss this because it is subjective matter not valid for all-son expression, but the opposite - it is per-son valid. If the topic was of mysticism which is per-son oriented and subjective I would go for it, but here we are discussing science which is objective and all-son related.

"But when you look at CMB map, you also see that the structure that is observed, is in fact, in a weird way, correlated with the plane of the earth around the sun. Is this Copernicus coming back to haunt us? That's crazy. We're looking out at the whole universe. There's no way there should be a correlation of structure with our motion of the earth around the sun — the plane of the earth around the sun — the ecliptic. That would say we are truly the center of the universe

When I have the time to watch the vid I will comment more, however I always feel reluctant to spend my attention to this vids, staring with "MUST WATCH!!!". My experience shows that I feel like being trolled after watching them...

originally posted by: TheSpottedOwl
We Are The Center Of The Universe

1) In an unlimited Universe, everywhere is the 'center'.
2) Imagining that the Earth is the physical center of the Universe, well, you might as well imagine some unicorns to ride the flat Earth at the center of the Universe. It is an absurdity, an egotistical absurdity, and impossible to determine unless you can see the entirety of the Universe!
(Not possible!)

I'll wait for all the peer reviewed headlines before accepting any of that retrograde nonsense.

originally posted by: PassiveInductor


2. (At around 59:00 in the Video) It appears that cosmic radiation is pointed towards us in a way that would appear different if we moved away from our solar system. In particular cosmic radiation seems to be in the same plane as our solar system -- aligned with our orbit around the sun. It seems impossible. but they explain it well.

There are papers that attempt to explain this.

Some of the possibilities explored by This Paper is about local effects -- namely that the known foreground microwave radiation in our our solar system was not properly subtracted from the results, and thus appear as part of the CMP. A similar potential explanation in this paper is that there is still unknown local microwave foreground radiation that had not been subtracted from the data, and is thus included in the background radiation data.

3. (At around 53:00 in the Video) it appears that galaxies exist in concentric rings around our galaxy, and if we moved off of our galaxy to some other point, it would look different to us. If that is true, then it is very hard to explain how that would be unless our galaxy (at least) was at the center of the universe.

It's true that our local cluster of galaxies does have a structure that may not be seen from other perspectives. However, the observable universe is vast, and many many such structures exist around other local groupings of other galaxies. However, if we were to move 10 Billion LY across the universe near another of these local clusters of galaxies, we would see other localized structures unique to those clusters.

5. A secondary point that I really latched on to was the concept of living in a "Fine Tuned" universe -- where if even one small constant was off (gravitational constant, speed of light, etc.) things would completely fall apart. There is an incredible precision to the universe that is not explainable. Why is everything in the universe tuned for life on our planet?

Well, it seems lore likely that life is fine-tuned to the universe in which that life was able to exist in the first place. I mean, how could the universe give birth to a type of life that could NOT possibly exist under the laws of physics in that universe?

We are able to say the universe is fine-tuned for life, because we ("we" being the general type of life in this universe) were the type of life that COULD arise in this universe, given the parameter of the universe.

In another potential set-up of physical laws in a universe, perhaps matter would organize itself very very different -- for example, let's say that neutrons and protons would interact differently, causing an unimaginable type of thing analogous to the atoms in our universe, but not the same as our atoms. Or something something other than what we call the strong nuclear force holding atoms together. There might still be something analogous to the strong nuclear force, but it might be unimaginably different...

...A universe such as that would be a place in which we (again, "we" being the general type of life that CAN exist in this universe) could not possibly exist given the laws of physics of that universe. However, that does not mean that some other weird type of life could not emerge in that unimaginable weird universe -- life that could not possibly exist in our universe due to the laws of physics here.

If that were the case, then life in that universe could be ALSO saying "Isn't it stage that our universe seems fine tuned for life". But again, the reason that weird and different universe would seem fine tuned for THAT life is because THAT life is the type that the physical laws of that universe allows for.



Another analogy would be the oceans on Earth. A fish in the ocean might think (if it could think) "isn't it strange that the oceans are built just right to allow us fish to live; it appears fine-tuned for us fish." Granted, that would seem true, but again the reason the fish developed to be able to thrive in the oceans in the first place was because of the physical parameters of the oceans allows specifically for animals such fish evolve in such a way that they could thrive. Take a fish on land, which could be thought of as another universe (in a broad sense), and that fish would not survive. Similarly, take a human 1000 feet underwater, and the human would not survive long.

That's because the type of life that could evolve i the oceans would be fine tuned to the oceans, and the type of life that evolved on land would be fine-tuned to land.

I say the oceans are another universe only "in a broad sense" because the laws of physics on and and in the water are the same (unlike two different cosmological universes with vastly different laws of physics) -- but you get the broad analogy, and my point still stands.

Hmm...I see I got a little long-winded there with my final point (I think I've had too much coffee ), so let me summarize that...


It could be that the reason we are able to say "The universe is fine-tuned for life" is because we are the type of life that could possibly arise from our given universe, and thus are here and able to make that observation about the universe.

However, in another universe with vastly different laws of physics and nature, an unimaginably different type of life might emerge from that universe (under those vastly different laws of physics) and make the same observation about THEIR universe.

In both those cases, the life would be fine-tuned for the universe in which they live, not vice-versa.

a reply to: TheSpottedOwl

If I look through a telescope that can resolve images at 100 miles, or a radar, I become the center of what I can see. Curvature of the earth is about 33 feet per 100 miles, that would indicate that there is a structure controlling what I can see, since there is that 33 foot drop. The only difference is my viewing angle is 2d, theirs is 3d.

Cheers - Dave

a reply to: TheSpottedOwl

Of course our planet is at the centre of the observable universe. There is much more universe out there, than we can see using the CMB!

Qell, we can't be THE center of the universe. Not possible. We might currently occupy the center but our solar system and Sun aren't as old as the beginning, right?

Pics or WE didn't happen.

Has Phage commented yet on this? I haven't checked all the replies. What did Phage say? I'd be interested to hear his take on all this?? PHAGE???

3 questions
-What happened to CMB redshift? You know the one that told us something about the direction of our movement through the universe towards the Great Attractor (in Leo). This thread: www.abovetopsecret.com...

-what happened to the vid? and
-wth happened to OP? (lol)

a reply to: TheSpottedOwl

You seem to be relying on a wiki page and a video of clips to support your point. You should have known ATS would be all over that. All of your replies are basically you saying you are right but providing no evidence besides "that what the science says." Cite and link scientific documents or your argument is null. It's also been pointed out that any observer would view themselves at the center of what they are observing; clearly the case here.

How can you see light-years away and expect not to be seeing a different lap of the same spiraling light?

Oh that's right, they know what they see in space is nothing more than the local area repeated over and over. Its only the stupid masses who believe in "endless galaxies" and surplus universe theory.

Some day I will collaborate proof that deep space is nothing more than the bending light of the projective plane manifold,and it will come in the form of ice clouds when the proof is finally accepted that our galaxy has a projector and a monitor. The 2 opposing god of potential and perception.