How Scientists Collected a Piece of the Sun

originally posted by: LittleBurgh
a reply to: TarzanBeta

quatr.us...

No need to be snarky just because you don't agree with me. It's completely fine with me that you disagree but you didn't present any information for me to read or study to advance my education. If I'm incorrect, I am more than happy to admit it.

Current science clearly states that all elements heavier that iron are produced by dying stars. Stars begin their death processes when they've used all their hydrogen & oxygen fuel & begin the process called fusion where the temperature & pressure of that star is so great it can create iron. When iron is created in a star, it's going to die & go through the supernova then dwarf phases. During those phases, iron & all the heavy elements are ejected into open space and can be collected by gravitational pull to make planets & other bodies. The ejections (atoms & ions of elements as well as complex molecules) from stars can travel billions of miles before being collected by a gravitational force or they may just continue throughout deep space as free elements.

I did not say anything about our star (the sun) providing the heavy elements & iron to create the earth & life as we know it. Obviously, if our sun was creating iron, it would be on the verge of going supernova & we'd all be toast. I did, however, mention the theory that our sun might have been part of a binary system in which the second star may have already become a brown dwarf. There is a brown dwarf, one of many recently discovered, arxiv.org... , that may, and I emphasize may, have been part of our sun's binary system.

Cutting edge technology, astronomers & astrophysicists all have come to the same conclusions. We know for a fact (right now, it could all change next year) that the creation of iron in a star is the death sign and beginning of fusion & we know for fact (again, science is an evolving process), that dying stars become supernovas that eject the heavy metals into space. Earth & life on earth was created by the death of ancient, distant stars' supernovas' ejections which provided the atoms & elements pulled together by a gravitational force creating a tiny orb which had great enough mass & rotation to create a stronger gravitational field attracting even more atoms finally creating an entire planet.

Sorry for disputing your opinion. I'll be sure to check back for your other theories of which I may not be aware. Have a great evening!!

Disputing my opinion is one thing. Having a passive aggressive response to my opinion is another.

In chess, everyone loses, even Magnus Carlsen.

In science, people are wrong. If chess cannot be solved yet, how can life be solved by science yet?

But some things can be eliminated with a little bit of thought and an endless amount of time on the clock.

a reply to: TarzanBeta

I also should add, what current science says can always be considered yesterday's news.

a reply to: TarzanBeta

Sorry if you felt that I was passive/aggressive. That was certainly not my intention. I was simply trying to inform with the current "facts" (as I said, science is a continuing process).

If you're interested in life on earth, perhaps you'd like this article from Harvard about carbon floating free in space. Carbon is the building block of most things on earth which I'm sure you know.

www.cfa.harvard.edu...

The director of the project was Dr. Adair P. Lane who happens to be my cousin so I'll vouch for her. Astronomy & Astrophysics kind of runs in our family. 😉

Have a good night!!

"What is hemoglobin?

Hemoglobin is the protein molecule in red blood cells that carries oxygen from the lungs to the body's tissues and returns carbon dioxide from the tissues back to the lungs.

Hemoglobin is made up of four protein molecules (globulin chains) that are connected together. The normal adult hemoglobin (abbreviated Hgb or Hb) molecule contains two alpha-globulin chains and two beta-globulin chains. In fetuses and infants, beta chains are not common and the hemoglobin molecule is made up of two alpha chains and two gamma chains."

"Each globulin chain contains an important iron-containing porphyrin compound termed heme. Embedded within the heme compound is an iron atom that is vital in transporting oxygen and carbon dioxide in our blood. The iron contained in hemoglobin is also responsible for the red color of blood."~ medicinenet...
www.medicinenet.com...

It takes two.
Symbiant...
Without the Earth's "SOL"-Sun all life on this planet would not be possible.
Possibly not even Extreme'a'philes.

Now back on subject.
What concerns me is the amount of Iron that was ccaptured.
We all know that the sun will not last forever.
Once a star starts to produce Iron Symbol: Fe
Atomic mass: 55.845 u ± 0.002 u....
It's a sign that the star is dying. Scientists say it's instant death, but it takes millions of Earth's years to happen.

www.askamathematician.com...

"Iron is where that slows to a stop. Iron collecting in the core is like ash collecting in a fire. It’s not that it somehow actively stops the process, but at the same time: it doesn’t help. Throw wood on a fire, you get more fire. Throw ash on a fire, you get hot ash.

So, iron doesn’t kill stars so much as it is a symptom of a star that’s about to be done. Without fuel, the rest of the star is free to collapse the core without opposition, and generally it does. When there’s a lot of iron being produced in the core, a star probably only has a few hours or seconds left to live."~ask a mathematician

Great little article.
I encourage a quick read.

Yet still fascinating and a good thread.


O

a reply to: Bigburgh

You're correct, BigBurgh. Oxygen breathing, blood using life on Earth requires iron to be effective. Anemia, a common condition in human beings, is related to not having enough iron available for the globulin chains attachments to create (essentially) red blood cells. Iron can be added by diet, injections and/or vitamin & mineral supplements.

To your question about "the iron collected", I'm assuming you're referencing the Genesis program. www.jpl.nasa.gov... There are continuing studies being done on the plates that survived the crash landing uncontaminated. Currently, the papers that have been published regard Neon, Argon, Nitrogen & Oxygen. Here is simple summary from the LA Times: articles.latimes.com... and another more complex: www.planetary.org...

The results that have been published are really interesting & can potentially change science's view of the way the solar system was created. The plates collected Isotopes as opposed to standard elements. The early indications are that the sun & inner planets were created from/by DIFFERENT nebulae!!! It has long been thought that the sun was formed first & the inner planets were formed as a result of "borrowed" gravity from the sun & by materials from the same nebulae. The Genesis plates & paleo-geology studies report different Isotopes in the sun & Earth. It's really awesome!! Everyday, the science we "know" is changing & advancing.

As yet, there haven't been any reports of solar iron (elemental or Isotopes) from sun by the Genesis project. Also, the studies regarding the plates used for capture of ions haven't been published. Ions are the radioactive versions of certain elements. I really want to know what types of radioactive partials were captured in the solar winds by the project. Measurements of ionic particles could help CERN advance their research into super subatomic particles. SOOOO Cool!!!

Have a great day!!

a reply to: intrptr

The plates collect Isotopes. You'd need a super microscope to see the single atoms. I checked around & don't see any atomic photos from the Genesis spacecraft plates but I'll keep looking around for you.

Have a great day!!

a reply to: intrptr

Hi!

I've been following the Genesis project for years. I'm just fascinated by the whole idea & the results coming back are just startling. It could shake up all of Astrophysics and give us new things to consider/research!!

You asked about the broken plates. The Genesis spacecraft's return capsule was successfully released from the satellite & entered the Earth's atmosphere at the correct angle for its heat shield. It was just about to be declared successful when the capsule's parachute failed to deploy. The capsule, slowed by the parachute, was supposed to be "snagged" by a helicopter in mid-air (a rather audacious plan). However, without having been slowed, the helicopter couldn't capture it & regretfully, the capsule crash landed in the desert. Some of the plates were broken in the crash but we're still able to be studied as they were not contaminated. Several plates, whole & broken, were determined to be contaminated either by the mud/dirt of the desert or by desert air as individual compartments were compromised. There is a picture of the crashed return capsule in this article: www.planetary.org...

Thanks for your interest! Have a great day!!

a reply to: LittleBurgh

Oh hey that helps.
Most appreciated, I was wasn't entirely on the ball with my post.

a reply to: LittleBurgh

Outstanding , thanks for the detail. I didn't know the return portion of the instrument package had crash-landed. That would explain what I saw in the in the Genesis images. Considering the 'mass' portion of a coronal mass ejection how close do you suppose we would have to be to the flare to be destroyed by, not the heat and blast, but the 'mass' part?

I guess its a dumb question, the flux is mass but in atom and subatomic form, right? Too small to actually hit like a hammer would, just penetrate us and hole us on a subatomic level.The reason I ask is sometimes these particles strike the imager chip in SOHO cameras and look like they fragment and spray shrapnel...?

lower left, this image

The CCD chip inside the camera is of a similar composition to the capture plates, do you suppose the strike is from particles that are smaller than atoms, the same size or larger (as in clusters of atoms)? What 'fragments' when it hits the substrate?

Thanks again for taking the time to enlighten us.

originally posted by: LittleBurgh
...The capsule, slowed by the parachute, was supposed to be "snagged" by a helicopter in mid-air (a rather audacious plan)...

A similar technique (but using an airplane) had been used since the late 1950s to grab spy satellite film canisters out of the air after having been dropped from space by the satellite. Early spy satellite intelligence reconnaissance relied on actual physical film.

a reply to: Soylent Green Is People

That's just too cool!! It was still an audacious plan given all the moving parts that had to be in just the right place at just the right time. It's really a shame the parachute didn't deploy & some of the collection plates were contaminated.
But to think we were able to catch spy satellite film canisters in mid-air, thereby keeping some our secrets safe as well as learning about "their" level of technology at the time, is just astonishing. Such a feet of engineering given that airplanes were barely invented 50 years earlier. Given that "flying machines" are just a bit over 100 years old, sending & retrieving anything to & from space is remarkable. If you ever get the chance, talk to pilots & navigators from WWI & II or read their accounts. Some of the stories they tell about the qualities of early aircraft will make you ponder how we ever got this far!! 😀

Have a great rest of you day!!

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: LittleBurgh

Outstanding , thanks for the detail. I didn't know the return portion of the instrument package had crash-landed. That would explain what I saw in the in the Genesis images. Considering the 'mass' portion of a coronal mass ejection how close do you suppose we would have to be to the flare to be destroyed by, not the heat and blast, but the 'mass' part?

I guess its a dumb question, the flux is mass but in atom and subatomic form, right? Too small to actually hit like a hammer would, just penetrate us and hole us on a subatomic level.The reason I ask is sometimes these particles strike the imager chip in SOHO cameras and look like they fragment and spray shrapnel...?

lower left, this image

The CCD chip inside the camera is of a similar composition to the capture plates, do you suppose the strike is from particles that are smaller than atoms, the same size or larger (as in clusters of atoms)? What 'fragments' when it hits the substrate?

Thanks again for taking the time to enlighten us.

Hi! Thanks for your questions. I'm working on it. Here is an article on CMEs that explains the differences between "solar wind" and "CME". Easy form: solar wind is Isotopes as gathered by the Genesis project & CMEs are electromagnetic & ionic fields propelled away from the sun by plasma eruptions. Here's the article: www.swpc.noaa.gov...

As to your question about "mass", the "mass" part of CME refers more to the size in area of the ejections rather than "mass" in weight. We aren't going to get crushed by heaviness ejected from the sun as much as were going to get toasted by radiation from the sun growing larger & hotter as it heads towards supernova. The planet will then be crushed by the blast force wave when the sun finally goes supernova.

It's dinner time but I didn't want you to think I skipped over your questions. Will keep working on 'em but I don't want to science jargon you to death. LOL. 😀. Catch ya later!!!

originally posted by: Bigburgh
Now back on subject.
What concerns me is the amount of Iron that was ccaptured.
We all know that the sun will not last forever.
Once a star starts to produce Iron Symbol: Fe
Atomic mass: 55.845 u ± 0.002 u....
It's a sign that the star is dying. Scientists say it's instant death, but it takes millions of Earth's years to happen.

O'course, nothing says that Sol is producing iron as a fusion end product. And for the sort of star it is, and its age, it's probably not.

The precursor stars in the region that produced all the heavy elements you see as part of the planets in the system made a LOT of iron, some ended up in the cores of the rocky planets like Earth and as a metric crapton of nickel-iron space trash in the system. Some ended up inside Sol.

You can see spectroscopic lines of just about every long-lived element in the corona of Sol. Except for the helium, most of it is from the previous generation stars that were in the neighborhood and not from higher-order fusion.

a reply to: LittleBurgh
a reply to: Bedlam


Nice, both y'all. You win a Universe full of stars.

a reply to: Bedlam

Your correct🤗
Like I said....
I wasn't exactly on par with my post. I forgot about the space debris like asteroid bits and other factors.🙄
So I ding myself on that one.

Star for your post good sir/ma'am..

a reply to: intrptr

Lol.... thank you

a reply to: intrptr

I keep seeing stars, i wonder why? laughs...

originally posted by: LuXTeN
a reply to: intrptr

I keep seeing stars, i wonder why?

laughs...

Lulz, yah couldn't resist. My head is full of stars, too.

a reply to: intrptr

hehe awesome love it!

a reply to: Bedlam



This is a pic of the crapton of space trash currently being tracked. The article of some explanation of what they're considering & expecting to do about it: www.nasa.gov...