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Where I stand, for what it's worth.

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posted on Feb, 10 2017 @ 01:07 PM
I love this community and this website. And I know things have been incredibly divisive here lately, as they are all over the country. Therefore, for whatever little or much it may be worth to anyone, since many seem afraid to state plainly where they stand, I wanted to say for the record what my position is.

I believe in nuance. I believe in not generalizing, about any group (I'm even a little dubious about whether said groups even exist to begin with in any formal sense, as logic and experience should make it self evident that we're ALL different, imo. But I digress.)

Whether someone is a liberal, a conservative, something in between, or anything else; whether they are a member of a specific faith (including Islam,) agnostic, atheist, or anything else, my position is the same: I will assess you as an individual, on an individual basis, not as a member of your "group" via guilt by association. And I will respect you, and hold a modicum of compassion for you, and your loved ones, and your wellbeing.

As an example: I'm probably about as liberal as they come, but I don't believe in gun bans, and I don't believe in restrictions on ammunition types, etc. either. I may not like guns (truthfully, I abhor them personally,) but the second amendment, to me, is clear. I also was not an Obama or Clinton supporter, despite my liberalism, because to me, they were both highly corrupt corporatists whose policy positions did great harm, both at home and abroad. (While at the same time, they also had some positions I agreed with.)

I also acknowledge the hypocrisy I see, for instance: fellow liberals who are incensed and outraged about the immigration restrictions our new President has put in place, or the deaths of innocent civilians (and one brave serviceman) in the recent Yemen raid... yet never seemed the least bit bothered by the scores of innocent civilians killed by President Obama via drone strikes, which he made a standard method for carrying out attacks worldwide... including in one case against an American citizen.

Or how many fellow liberals fear the roll back of the Affordable Health Act (some of which I agreed with, and some of which I thought was terrible and a handout to insurance companies, who by the way, helped draft it,) yet didn't seem to care that people - including close friends of mine - had their premiums rise so precipitously that they had to move... and one of whom was injured in said move, and had to go nearly a year without BADLY NEEDED treatment. The argument was made, "Well, for MOST people, that won't happen." And that's all well and good, but even a small percentage is still potentially millions. So for the record, I care about both those who the ACA benefits, and those it hurts.

Or how many fellow liberals condemn conservative economic platforms due to the perceived harm they do to the poor, or how they benefit corporations... yet do not condemn DNC supported initiatives such as NAFTA which have left places in our country like the rust belt bereft of jobs, causing real pain (pain we're SUPPOSED to care about if we call ourselves liberal... aren't we?) Or some Democrats' willingness to vote against the interests of the people, due to being recipients of large corporate donations (the recent vote on importing lower cost drugs, for instance, by Dems who had received donations in large sums from pharmaceutical lobbyists.)

How can I possibly call myself compassionate and liberal, yet support that? For the record: I don't. I oppose that hypocrisy, and those policies, and the suffering caused by them. Indeed, I feel strongly that it was in large part the refusal to acknowledge this that cost the Democrats the election.

Likewise, I may disagree with many conservatives about many things (LGBT issues, immigration, regulations, abortion, the existence of intersectionality and institutional racism in our country, among others,) but 1) I know that like me, not all conservatives believe the same things or hold the same positions, as though they are a single, monolithic block. 2) I respect their rights and opinions even while disagreeing with them, and will not attack or belittle them as human beings... even while steadfastly standing my ground and making clear where I stand. And 3) I'm a Christian. (Surprise!) I'm not ashamed to admit that, and I also don't share all of the doctrines or ideologies of any one Christian denomination (as is likely clear by this post,) though, technically I am a member of one.

Bottom line for me in all things because of that last point, is this: I believe in love, mercy, compassion, charity, and fellowship. I believe in equality and liberty for all, so long as they are not doing harm. And even then, I still believe in forgiveness and compassion, though I know this is not always a practical and popular stance.

And I firmly believe that only by respecting one another, communicating, applying critical thinking and real nuance, owning our faults and mistakes (for instance, I'm liberal but perceive the Democratic party establishment as HIGHLY corrupt and insensitive to much of the country - we talk about conservative insensitivity, but never own our own, and that is sad imho) etc. and by SINCERELY CARING what happens to ALL people, regardless of their political stances... only by truly doing that, can we heal the divisions in this country.

I'm not even sure that's possible anymore, realistically - as everyone seems to be militantly in their "camp..." but that's where I stand, for the record.

I love everyone. I hate no one. I can disagree without disdaining people. I believe in what Christ taught, that I should love and bless those with whom I disagree, even those who literally hate me. And that is how I try - while being imperfect, like everyone is - to conduct myself.

I know this likely means many on both the left and right see me as an extreme outlier and anomaly, and that many on ATS will disagree with countless of my positions above... and that's fine.

That's where I stand. Just wanted to say that.


posted on Feb, 10 2017 @ 01:13 PM
In other words, you're a civil human being.

While we don't agree on some things, I agree with much of what you said.

Wish there were more of us.

posted on Feb, 10 2017 @ 01:20 PM

Kill the wise one!!!!!

posted on Feb, 10 2017 @ 01:24 PM
a reply to: AceWombat04

I'm going to be honest here, may get me into trouble.

Where do i stand politically? no idea really. Someone during the week posted a thread on ATS with a link to a quiz that would show your political leaning, i took the quiz and the results showed i was in the same position as Ghandi.

In reality i have been pleased so far with the vote for Brexit and the election of Donald Trump, i am also hoping for the election of Le-Pen in the French general election in May.

So, more Right Wing leanings rather than Liberal going off recent election results, but more Liberal going off the questions asked in the quiz.

Does this mean i am just looking for change from the "normal" we have experienced for the last couple of decades, as in the old saying, a change is better than a rest ....... no idea

It is what it is, don't bite my head off

posted on Feb, 10 2017 @ 01:33 PM
trump is a "my way or the highway" president, and the people that voted for him LOVE that in him.....and those people don't give a damn about how you WILL be forced to do it their way. they want to kill every liberal idea, law, or regulation in this nation.
do you honestly think they care about public education?....they put in Vos to screw that you think they give a damn about the EPA,? or the labor department? NO.....
what they want are more poor, uneducated, and sick people, (read: malleable, and desperate) and they want to profit as much as possible while making them that way......the president and the people he put in charge of his cabinet have shown everyone that is what is going to happen. it's right in front of your eyes.
do you think duke energy is going to worrying about dumping toxic waste into the drinking water, when there is no/or gutless, EPA to stop them? you think private schools WON'T raise their tuition to keep out the poor, and/or minority students? do you think voting rights will be made easier by AG sessions?

the list is long, but you should be clear eyed about their intentions...."coming together" is not in their DNA, it's "I've got mine, now screw you"

edit on 10-2-2017 by jimmyx because: (no reason given)

posted on Feb, 10 2017 @ 01:44 PM
Great post. I truly believe most people fall into this gray area, you are either a little right of the middle or a little left of the middle. I would consider myself a little right, although there are many things on the right I don't agree with.

I enjoy the dialogue of both sides, but when the extremists start driving one side or the other then we have a problem.

Hopefully we will see a time again when people can express their opinion and we can have meaningful discussions about those opinions.

posted on Feb, 10 2017 @ 01:46 PM
a reply to: corblimeyguvnor

Ha! I'm Ghandi too.

a reply to: jimmyx

Your post is an excellent example of the kind of thinking that explains why we're in the mess we are in.

a reply to: Watcher777


edit on 10-2-2017 by loam because: (no reason given)

posted on Feb, 10 2017 @ 01:51 PM
a reply to: jimmyx

"My way or the highway"

So much irony and hypocrisy in your post.

But it's the "tolerance" of the left that is keeping this division alive. It's the weak-minded that the left prey on and control to keep their agenda alive. It's the false narrative that the left keep pushing to keep the rhetoric alive so all you weak minded people stay asleep. There's not much more to say to you.

posted on Feb, 10 2017 @ 02:05 PM
Thanks for posting this and it is nice to read where you stand in such an eloquently written way.

It's worth alot to read such wise words and you inspire me to be a better human being within my faith 🙂

posted on Feb, 10 2017 @ 02:15 PM
So you are like the majority of America, not enslaved to the party but concerned about America...

Heck I would wage most here fall under that as well..

I agree with just about everything you put down...

Thank you for sharing.

posted on Feb, 10 2017 @ 02:42 PM
a reply to: AceWombat04

Ummm...Totally amazing post ACE... one either on this site or out in the real world is totally conservative or liberal...

What you describe yourself as is moderate...and I don't mean a fence sitter by that either...

Truth be told...I'm much the same as you are...and that's just fine by me...


posted on Feb, 10 2017 @ 02:48 PM
Very nice post. I also think most people do not fall into neat little boxes. Instead of thinking about right and left, a linear one dimensional symbolic definition of beliefs, it's better to think of it as a multi-dimensional space where for example one can be for conservative use of government but still desire all efforts towards clean air and clean water.

I miss the hippy days of the past where it was cool to think for yourself and be unique. These days too many people on the 'right' and 'left' are ready to slap you down for not agreeing with all of their mainstream thought forms.

We really are each unique, why can't we embrace this and realize that there are not two sides but an infinite number of possibilities. We need to stop judging people by skin color; sexual orientation, by % body fat; or for wearing socks and sandals (it's comfy).

These are the reasons that I believe the US would be much better off if we didn't have political parties and if we didn't have religions. No simple labels or boxes for people to jump in. Just a country full of independents who are proud that they don't all think alike and who find their own spirituality.

edit on 10-2-2017 by bluesjr because: (no reason given)

posted on Feb, 10 2017 @ 05:38 PM
a reply to: jimmyx

Your mood must have changed.

posted on Feb, 10 2017 @ 05:39 PM

originally posted by: jimmyx
trump is a "my way or the highway" president, and the people that voted for him LOVE that in him.....and those people don't give a damn about how you WILL be forced to do it their way. they want to kill every liberal idea, law, or regulation in this nation.

To hear people of the far left criticizing others for being "my way or the highway" is breathtaking!

edit on 10-2-2017 by IgnoranceIsntBlisss because: (no reason given)

posted on Feb, 10 2017 @ 07:52 PM
a reply to: jimmyx

Where and when/if that is the case, on a person by person and point by point basis, part of the point of this topic was me stating for the record where I stand, and that I will resist and disagree with people and positions and actions... but without engaging in vitriol or broad brush generalizations. (And it should be clear based on all I said, where it is I disagree with the present administration... and previous administrations.)

Somehow, we as a country seem to have lost the ability to do that. I refuse to participate in that side of political discussion. I care about everyone, even the people I disagree with, and even (and especially) those who couldn't care less about me in return. That doesn't mean I won't vote, or even protest (peacefully,) or speak/write when I feel the need or compulsion to. (Or say when I believe false equivalency is used to gloss over something that is genuinely hurting people from my point of view.)

It does mean I refuse to see those with whom I disagree, even on issues that are core to my ethics and morals, as enemies or worthy of scorn as human beings. They may choose to see me and treat me as such. (Some already have.) I will not respond in kind. I can't control other people. I can only control myself, and strive to do what I believe is right.

a reply to: corblimeyguvnor

Part of the point of this topic is, even where I disagree with people, even strongly, I have no desire to or intention of biting anyone's head off. Feel free to speak your mind, you will not be attacked as a person (by me) for it even if I disagree and say so. (I cannot vouch for anyone else, of course.)


edit on 2/10/2017 by AceWombat04 because: (no reason given)

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