Affirmitive action in Horse Racing

Firstly, if the mods feel this is the wrong forum, then I apologise.

Now, I don't know how many of you are into horse racing, I am and it's glaringly obvious that there is a huge shortfall of female jockeys in the higher ranks in racing.

There are a few big names in the UK and Ireland, riders like Katie Walsh, Hayley Turner etc but they are very much the exception rather than the rule.

The more you think about it, the more bizarre it is.
Compare the number of girls obsessed with ponies and horses to boys, or the sheer number of teen age girls working with horses regularly and you would expect there to be far more female jockeys than male. (Especially when you consider that there is a general, gender based difference in stature between men and women).

A lot of the trainers and owners (it is alleged) tend to favour male jockeys over females because they think they are intrinsically better.

Now the French horse racing authority have come out with a rule to grant a 2 kilo allowance to female riders in a bid to encourage trainers to make females their first pick.
www.racingpost.com...=last7DaysNews
2 Kilos may not sound like a lot, but it's half the weight a handicapper will put on a horse for a good victory and has the potential to radically affect which one you will back.


My own opinion is that this is a good thing. I don't see any real difference between men and women as jockeys. I will still have my favourites, just as Haley was one when she raced (And paid my bar tab more than once through winning).

A 2 kilo or 4lb allowance will sure as hell make me consider a female ridden horse over one with very similar claims on form, ground etc.
I say that as a punter, since we are always looking for an angle in tight races. This could just be one.

What say you? Good idea? bad one? mad one?

a reply to: SprocketUK

How does this not insult women?

originally posted by: jellyrev
a reply to: SprocketUK

How does this not insult women?

It's merely a method to get a trainer to give a chance to an up and coming female jockey rather than a middling 30 year old bloke.

I'd guess when the percentages even up somewhat then they'll drop or delete the allowance.

a reply to: SprocketUK

When do ya suppose we will get affirmative action in all professional sports?
Hockey has few black men.
Basketball has few white men.

Oh crap! Neither has women!

Sorry but if women were an advantage, the owners would hire them. Money is gender neutral.

a reply to: Bluntone22

Neither in Hockey nor Basketball do men and women compete against each other.

In racing, it's not a case of one being better than the other, it's more of a confidence thing and this weight allowance is supposed to overturn the prejudice of a lot of trainers (I don't mean prejudice in the hardest terms, merely that they have a preference).

I should point out that Hayley Turner has spoken against the decision as she didn't think people would have taken her victories as seriously if she had a 4lb advantage.

Like everything, I guess this is a sticky one.

a reply to: SprocketUK

Sticky indeed.

I have never liked the idea for forcing a change in culture. That is always counter productive.

An Aussie chick Jockey won the Melbourne Cup last year and just this week we launched the new Womens AFL competition, all games are going to be televised live and free.
The Austalian open Tennis grand slam was also the first to offer equal prize money for men and women

Australia, doing its bit for the chicks in sport, GO AUSSIE

a reply to: Bluntone22

I have never liked the idea for forcing a change in culture. That is always counter productive.

Well if you had your way, we'd still have schools segregated by race. I have always loved the idea of forcing change in a culture. It produces one of two outcomes: 1) People accept it and realize that it's not that big of a deal and get on with their lives. 2) People rebel and we all realize that maybe it's a pretty bad idea after all. Change is inevitable. Both are win scenarios.

a reply to: SprocketUK
"Ever since the beginning of time, fast women and slow horses have combined to ruin the impressionable young male".
That was the opening sentence of the Times report on the first race run in Britain by a female professional jockey. A few decades back, but it sticks in the memory.

a reply to: MrSensible

You said it yourself.
"Change is inevitable"
My opinion is that forcing the issue slows the change.

originally posted by: DISRAELI
a reply to: SprocketUK
"Ever since the beginning of time, fast women and slow horses have combined to ruin the impressionable young male".
That was the opening sentence of the Times report on the first race run in Britain by a female professional jockey. A few decades back, but it sticks in the memory.

It's one of those universal truths

Meh another non-issue first world problem .

I have won with women.

I have won with men.

Some horses respond to strength, some to kindness.

There is one thing that is a fact.

I would much rather leg up a women...

a reply to: SprocketUK

Don't know much about racing but my daughter as a young girl loved horses and took lessons for years.

As a last minute idea, I took her and her friends to the horse races. As the horses came around with the riders viciously hitting the horses to go faster, they all started screaming an crying-couldn't bear how the horses were being treated. We ran and the experience left a horrific effect on the girls.

Big difference between loving and caring by women and men beating them for money.

a reply to: SprocketUK


When I saw the title of this tread thought it was going to be something about giving head starts out of the blocks or forcing some to have heavy riders to slow them down.

a reply to: SprocketUK

Josephine Gordon has gone from being a 7lb claimer to riding for amongst others Godolphin, Sir Michael Stoute and Hugo Palmer in little more than a year.
She is just one of a group of young female jockeys including Hollie Doyle and Georgia Cox who are holding their own in a very competitive sport.

All oppose the proposed 4lb allowance for female jockeys, Josey Gordon even went so far as to say she feels insulted that it has even been suggested.

Hopefully common sense will prevail and the BHA will resist any such moves to introduce it into British horseracing.

It seems somewhat bizarre that the feminist movement has apparently gone full circle and are now seeking allowances for acknowledged weaknesses.

a reply to: SprocketUK
This is going to be long winded but here goes.

I was a collegiate debater. There were constantly discussion why college debate how a low participation level among womne (my guess is like %30 percent of them were women). There would be panels and events over and over discussing how to solve this problem, particularly because in highschools many more women participate.

The women in college debate were great, and some of the national champions were teams of women. All of these discussion on how to provide incentive for women to join, or how to change the game for women, and they missed the most obvious answer in the world.

Women just didn't want to do it. And guess what, that fine. As long as women are given the opportunity to compete on a fair level, why should we change the game or make it easier for women.

I think horse riding is probably the same. Sure lots of girls like horses, but maybe they don't want to race them, they like them for other reasons.

I think that sports are an example of extreme capitalism, that is a world where only meritocracy or skill matters. And this situation is the best way to end racism or sexism, because only winning matters.

Lets say I own the Yankees. I may be the biggest racist in the world, but if I know hiring a black player like Andrew McCutchen will help me win a world serious, I would do it in a heart beat.

The same is true of women. If a woman pitcher comes along who can help a team win, she would be hired in a heartbeat. In fact, there would be the added bonus of the liberal media eating it up, and butts feeling seats to see an incredible first of a woman in the MLB.

I don't know much about horse racing, but one of the things I do know is that millions if not billions of dollars are at stake. I do not think that owners would be black balling women if they thought they gave them a better chance to win.

Handing out affirmative action to women is not only bad for competitive balance, but an insult to the hard working women that are currently having success in the sport.

originally posted by: SprocketUK

originally posted by: jellyrev
a reply to: SprocketUK

How does this not insult women?

It's merely a method to get a trainer to give a chance to an up and coming female jockey rather than a middling 30 year old bloke.

I'd guess when the percentages even up somewhat then they'll drop or delete the allowance.

Will they?

In the US affirmative action laws were supposed to be temporary too until employers learned that sometimes African Americans were perfectly qualified to do the job and then the quotas would be removed.

But we still have them today, and if anyone tries to suggest that maybe they aren't necessarily needed anymore because most people are perfectly aware that African Americans can do the job just as well when they're qualified or a white candidate is clearly discriminated against because the quota must be filled ...

Well, you can hear the screeching and wailing of racism clear to the moon.

My guess is that it will be the same only you will hear accusations of attempted misogyny and a return to the bad old days when no one would hire women.

a reply to: Grambler

I would say that most women don't participate in debate because whether we like it or not, we tend to be more emotional creatures. Debate is a sport of logic. That doesn't mean that women cannot be perfectly logical, but it's not the natural place for a woman to dwell and that's OK. Our emotions help us be better at the nurturing side of things which is what our natural roles tend to usually be.

Going into horse-racing is like going into most sports. You have to have that competitive, killer spirit. Again, there are lots of girls who have it, but not nearly as many as men. That's why not as many girls end up competing at sports to a high level. And I'll bet if you checked most of us who did, you'd find out that we have higher testosterone levels than many of our female compatriots, but that's another discussion.

And, again, that's OK.

You cannot look at the percentage of men and women in the world and just think every activity out there should reflect that gross percentage or that every job should. There are just some things at some levels in some places that men or women will prefer.

Why don't we ever complain about the lack of men in child care, for example?

a reply to: SprocketUK

Affirmative action is part of whats wrong with this world.
Best individual for the job, not some politically motivated agenda. period.