Why were so many of histories best warriors homosexual???

I've been on a romp through military history lately and noticed a reoccurring motif in far more stories than you might think. ..

There are a startling amount of homo/bi sexual military hero's..

Now I'm not saying that the average military tuff guy was gay, but the percent that was is staggeringly high.

I mean what?!?

Only like 2% or 3% of the male population is homosexual right??

Well then why are (off the top of my head) 20% of the world's best warriors and military commanders gay??

Shouldn't it be 3% just like the population average??

Achellies

Just about every single spartan.

A big chunk of athenians.

The thebian couple warriors

Phillip of Macedonia

Alexander the Great.

Lawrence of Arabia

Willhelm Von stubene

Hadrian (of wall fame)

Fredrick the great

Richard the lion heart

Ceaser

And those are just off the top of my head, but it's a who's who of some of the toughest and most strategic military figures in human history?!?!



Kinda puts don't ask don't tell in a different light lol.

a reply to: JoshuaCox

I'll give two theories. The first thing I noticed is that the bulk of your leaders are from the Peloponnesian peninsula which from what I have researched didn't discriminate as much against same sex coupling. The other one which I am only guessing on is that if one were to take a lifestyle including a lifetime of marching far from home with nothing but the company of your fellow man that choice is similar to priesthood albeit much more violent. My guess is that this choice tends to have unspoken leanings towards that sort of behavior.

What makes a good ruler, politician, or businessman resides in the fact that they have something "different" about them ..
Like people who naturally wake up after 2hrs sleep and are good for 22 hrs... or people ridiculed at a young age who become doctors to prove others wrong in the long run....

Havin homo tendancies prior to modern lbgqtyfgsdiondtanczg labels being applied like now probably drove the great figures of history to overcompensation

b

a reply to: JoshuaCox

Pretty sure it was a normal thing in roman times... not frowned upon or even needed to be hidden

Only certain cultures had issues with it... (mostly Abrahamic)

a reply to: JoshuaCox

Gay or just having sex?

By the measure of the Spartans, then most of the men of Pakistan are apparently gay too, and we all know how Islam feels about that.

There is a difference between cultural views on sex and actually thinking that men are your preferred and only romantic partners.

originally posted by: TacticalStats
a reply to: JoshuaCox

I'll give two theories. The first thing I noticed is that the bulk of your leaders are from the Peloponnesian peninsula which from what I have researched didn't discriminate as much against same sex coupling. The other one which I am only guessing on is that if one were to take a lifestyle including a lifetime of marching far from home with nothing but the company of your fellow man that choice is similar to priesthood albeit much more violent. My guess is that this choice tends to have unspoken leanings towards that sort of behavior.

There ya go.. creature of necessity.


I've always kinda thought that just like some males were wired to like men, the rest were wired to be repulsed by the thought of homosexuality.

The base reaction being outside the control of either party.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: JoshuaCox

Gay or just having sex?

By the measure of the Spartans, then most of the men of Pakistan are apparently gay too, and we all know how Islam feels about that.

There is a difference between cultural views on sex and actually thinking that men are your preferred and only romantic partners.

From an American POV if your doing guys, your gay or maybe bi. Lol

It's all just made up bs besides whatever biological wiring there is.

a reply to: JoshuaCox

I've heard of two lesbian lover vigilantes from Latin America

badassoftheweek.com...

And at the heart of all that sword-swinging drunken street brawl mother#ing mayhem stood two of the most famous warriors in the history of Peru – Dona Ana Lezama de Urinza and Dona Eustaquia de Sonza, the flamboyant lesbian lover vigilante swordswoman duelists who traveled the land like cowboy Batgirls honing their swordfighting skills against any mother#ers dumb enough to try and # with them.

I am guessing that in the spirit of unity needed to fight war, the term 'having each others back' takes on a new meaning once the bullets start flying?

The enemy thought it was a woman and let their guard down . :p

They also partook in bestiality.

Wouldn't really consider raping and pillaging to be all that heroic.

Most of the royal lineages had some genetic problems, due to all the incestuous breeding.

a reply to: JoshuaCox

Because they wanted their armies to passionately fight for each other. So if the man next to you is your lover you'll fight harder. Men became gay to win battles.

a reply to: JoshuaCox

But here's the thing:

Those people you talk about are not viewing themselves from "an American POV." They have their own culture and whatever its view is.

You're the one trying to shoehorn the American cultural view over whatever their own cultural view was.

For example, the Roman view was that sex was sex no matter what your partner happened to be if you were a noble Roman male; however, you shouldn't admit that you liked being buggered and you shouldn't publicly profess to prefer your male lovers to female ones.

But otherwise, there were no especial taboos about sex itself.

originally posted by: GodEmperor
They also partook in bestiality.

Wouldn't really consider raping and pillaging to be all that heroic.

Most of the royal lineages had some genetic problems, due to all the incestuous breeding.

So...are you being facetious, or poking fun at the story of women being able to kick ass?

Here's an answer for you to ponder; Motivation

Those soldiers / commanders you speak of would have one mighty reason to fight even harder for their comrades.

Why?

Well it is a known fact that in any well disciplined military unit the soldiers develop a very close bond.

Now add romantic interest to that....

Yep, one is going to fight with fury and might not normally seen to protect their lover and each other.

ETA For Example; The Band of Thebes

According to Plutarch, the 300 hand-picked men were chosen by Gorgidas purely for ability and merit, regardless of social class.[17] It was composed of 150 male couples,[15] each pair consisting of an older erastês (ἐραστής, "lover") and a younger erômenos (ἐρώμενος, "beloved").[18] Athenaeus of Naucratis also records the Sacred Band as being composed of "lovers and their favorites, thus indicating the dignity of the god Eros in that they embrace a glorious death in preference to a dishonorable and reprehensible life";[9] while Polyaenus describes the Sacred Band as being composed of men "devoted to each other by mutual obligations of love".[7] The origin of the "sacred" appellation of the Sacred Band is unexplained by Dinarchus and other historians. But Plutarch claims that it was due to an exchange of sacred vows between lover and beloved at the shrine of Iolaus (one of the lovers of Hercules) at Thebes. He also tangentially mentions Plato's characterization of the lover as a "friend inspired of God".[17][18]

en.wikipedia.org...

They were very different times.
Pretty much every Roman and Greek was into gay sex but very few of them were what we would today call gay.

It seemed to be more about just getting your rocks off than any genuine preference for blokes

originally posted by: Bspiracy
What makes a good ruler, politician, or businessman resides in the fact that they have something "different" about them ..

Yes, usually, people who have no scruples, no morals, no ethics, not "constrained" by any dogma, get an "edge" in war and politics.

They do what is "necessary", rather than what is "right."

originally posted by: JoshuaCox


I've been on a romp through military history lately and noticed a reoccurring motif in far more stories than you might think. ..

There are a startling amount of homo/bi sexual military hero's..

Now I'm not saying that the average military tuff guy was gay, but the percent that was is staggeringly high.

I mean what?!?

Only like 2% or 3% of the male population is homosexual right??

Well then why are (off the top of my head) 20% of the world's best warriors and military commanders gay??

Shouldn't it be 3% just like the population average??

Achellies

Just about every single spartan.

A big chunk of athenians.

The thebian couple warriors

Phillip of Macedonia

Alexander the Great.

Lawrence of Arabia

Willhelm Von stubene

Hadrian (of wall fame)

Fredrick the great

Richard the lion heart

Ceaser

And those are just off the top of my head, but it's a who's who of some of the toughest and most strategic military figures in human history?!?!



Kinda puts don't ask don't tell in a different light lol.

More than 2 or 3% is gay. That said, its like a spectrum. Its not black and white....every shade of grey imaginable is in there.

Who is fitter on average these days. Gay men or straight men. Wonder if that has anything to do with it.

If you extol the male form above all others. It makes you want to be all ripped and six packie. Think about all those Greek and Roman nude male statues. They thought the male nude form was the highest form of perfection. Same reason you have a lot of down low homosexual stuff go DOWN* at gyms.

The fitter you are. The more you strive after that perfect male form. The better chance you have of becoming a bad-ass.

Six pack warrior vs beer belly warrior. Who has a better chance of being the bestest warrior evahs!!!!!!

Whoever is the fittest. Whoever strives after that perfect succulent male form.

No homo though.



*pun intended