Trump Tells Congress to Repeal Health Care Law ‘Very Quickly’

originally posted by: dfnj2015
Trump promised to allow healthcare insurance to be sold across state lines. Time to get rid of the cartels and monopolies and bring back competition!

Who do you think are going to be selling that insurance across lines? The major health insurance companies and their subsidiaries! This would be like an open frontier for them, allowing them to muscle their way into new territory/states.

The lower profit ones won't be able to keep up in their own States, much less with a 50 State plan and building networks in all 50 States. The larger ones will do like all corporations do when entering a new market: they'll enter the State with extra low "introductory" programs that are designed to bankrupt their competition. Then they'll just raise their rates once the lower profit providers are put out of business.

originally posted by: seasonal
a reply to: enlightenedservant

Very good points. When we allow a monopoly to dictate cost they are not going down.

Exactly. Cost controls should be at the heart of any real health care reform. Otherwise, we'll just keep getting more rate and price increases.

a reply to: enlightenedservant

Nothing can change unless we start to question costs.

People seem to think that this will be like buying a car. It won't. The is no competition. And just having insurance sell across state lines won't introduce competition. The insurance co is only going to pay so much for any procedure. Anything left over is the patient's part, until all the deductibles, out of pockets are met.

If they repealed it then it would take years to replace it.

The way to do away with ACA is to simply replace it with something better, but they have been brain-dead on that issue for decades and I don't see that changing. Remember the ACA is modelled after Romneycare it will take time for them to put together a better option. By the time they managed it the Dems would probably control the Whitehouse again.

a reply to: Grimpachi

Seems like a medicare system for all.

originally posted by: Throes
a reply to: EmmanuelGoldstein

Socialism? When has socialism ever worked?

It will only work in a star trek world. When there is no other option or way.
It will only really work when the world one day is collectively "born and raised" in it.

Maybe then we can finally work together on getting off this planet and spreading out.

The ACA is a disaster and so is this Trump plan, as well as Paul's.

I find it so hard to believe that "the greatest country in the world" can't be bothered with taking some of the tax money away from missiles and drones and putting it into healthcare for all of its citizens to enjoy.
This should be a right for all humans, not just Americans.

The first thing on the top of the bills that taxes should be providing for is healthcare for the humans. What century is this?

I mean, what are we paying all of these taxes for again?

originally posted by: EmmanuelGoldstein
The ACA is a disaster and so is this Trump plan, as well as Paul's.

I find it so hard to believe that "the greatest country in the world" can't be bothered with taking some of the tax money away from missiles and drones and putting it into healthcare for all of its citizens to enjoy.
This should be a right for all humans, not just Americans.

The first thing on the top of the bills that taxes should be providing for is healthcare for the humans. What century is this?

I mean, what are we paying all of these taxes for again?

If you know anything about Paul, he wants to also stop intervening in the Middle East as it isn't effective and costs way too much. Also, the middle class pays for enough crap already, we don't need to pay for everyone's health care on top of it.

a reply to: EmmanuelGoldstein

The problem is that healthcare related companies are highly profitable. And those companies and their trade groups employ a lot of lobbyists to make sure the laws help them.

According to this website (HERE), the "Pharmaceuticals/Health Products" industry was the top lobbied industry in 2016. It shows that they accounted for a whopping $186,215,379 in lobbying costs last year! And the insurance industry was 2nd with $111,439,867 in lobbying costs last year. To put that in perspective, the oil & gas industry was 5th on the list and accounted for only $88,627,140 in lobbying costs.

ETA: To add insult to injury, I just noticed that the 9th and 10th industries on the list were "Hospitals/Nursing Homes" (at $69,763,638) and "Health Professionals" (at $64,655,113). There's no way we'll get costs down when each segment of the healthcare system is lobbying so hard to remain profitable.

originally posted by: dfnj2015
Trump promised to allow healthcare insurance to be sold across state lines. Time to get rid of the cartels and monopolies and bring back competition!

Selling across state lines will not achieve any savings. All it will do is raise the prices in the states that all the people flock to. Then, they'll buy from another state, because the state they flocked to will not be affordable any longer.

I don't know who gave Republicans this dumb "across state lines" idea. They've been spouting it for years, with not even a sliver of research to demonstrate that it works.

originally posted by: carewemust

originally posted by: dfnj2015
Trump promised to allow healthcare insurance to be sold across state lines. Time to get rid of the cartels and monopolies and bring back competition!

Selling across state lines will not achieve any savings. All it will do is raise the prices in the states that all the people flock to. Then, they'll buy from another state, because the state they flocked to will not be affordable any longer.

I don't know who gave Republicans this dumb "across state lines" idea. They've been spouting it for years, with not even a sliver of research to demonstrate that it works.

Oh, so what your saying is that companies will have to compete and lower prices to obtain customers? You don't say!

a reply to: Throes

How do you think that is going to work?

Unless I am missing something. The insurance co doesn't care what the hospital charges. They are only going to pay a set amount.

originally posted by: Throes

originally posted by: carewemust

originally posted by: dfnj2015
Trump promised to allow healthcare insurance to be sold across state lines. Time to get rid of the cartels and monopolies and bring back competition!

Selling across state lines will not achieve any savings. All it will do is raise the prices in the states that all the people flock to. Then, they'll buy from another state, because the state they flocked to will not be affordable any longer.

I don't know who gave Republicans this dumb "across state lines" idea. They've been spouting it for years, with not even a sliver of research to demonstrate that it works.

Oh, so what your saying is that companies will have to compete and lower prices to obtain customers? You don't say!

There are certain states (like Mississippi, New York, Minnesota) where the nationwide health insurance companies do not want any part of.

People in Mississippi (a medically expensive state) flocking to buy in IDAHO, for instance, will raise the premiums of all the people who currently live and buy in Idaho.

People who reside in Idaho will be upset over their premium increases.. but those in Mississippi will be happy because they're buying less expensive coverage.

The solution is to get rid of health insurance companies "zip-code based" rating systems. Make the price the same in Idaho as it is in Mississippi. But... that involves government intervention to make it happen. Not likely under Trump.

originally posted by: enlightenedservant
a reply to: Throes

Those are ridiculously vague. What are the specifics?

1. The freedom to choose inexpensive insurance free of government dictates.

Does this mean "bare bones" insurance that has high premiums and deductibles? And what does it matter if the insurance itself is "inexpensive" if the hospital and drug costs continue to skyrocket?

2. The freedom to save unlimited amounts in a health savings account.

Otherwise known as a tax-free annuity for those who can afford it. However, why would someone need a large health savings account if they have health insurance? Oh yeah, because insurance companies will be able to drop you again if you have pre-existing conditions, if your treatments become too expensive for them to turn a profit, etc.

3. The freedom to buy insurance across state lines.

Will those out of state providers also have networks in your state? Otherwise, what's the point unless you live on the border w/the State you have insurance with? Put it like this, suppose someone lives in New York but buys a cheap Mississippi health insurance plan. How many of the doctors and medical facilities in New York will be covered by the Mississippi plan? If none, then that person would have to pay the higher out-of-network prices.

4. The freedom for all individuals to join together in voluntary associations to gain the leverage of being part of a large insurance pool.

Voluntary health unions... That's odd. Don't health insurance companies and health care programs already have leverage because of their large insurance pools? That's how they negotiate lower prices for their networks in the first place.

Combined with #3, it seems like it's saying that once you buy cheaper out of state health insurance, you'll have to join voluntary groups/unions in order to try to negotiate for the lower rates you already would've gotten under normal circumstances. ETA: I guess they're voluntary because the new law probably won't do anything to help insurance purchasers on this point. LOL Buyer beware indeed.

Does this mean "bare bones" insurance that has high premiums and deductibles? And what does it matter if the insurance itself is "inexpensive" if the hospital and drug costs continue to skyrocket?

No , that is what you got now with Pelosi Care. (why do folks still call it ObamaCare. Obama just signed it into law)

Oh yeah, because insurance companies will be able to drop you again if you have pre-existing conditions, if your treatments become too expensive for them to turn a profit, etc.

Didnt happen before "ObamaCare" nor after and I am called the 2 Million Dollar Man. (I think thats how much I owe . And thats my 10%)

And we dont know what the plan after the sh** wad called Obama Care is gone

I can say this as I have lived the nightmare called ACA

a reply to: seasonal

Insurance companies and government agencies negotiate prices with hospitals and doctors. There are 177,000 codes (prices) assigned to a myriad of treatments, procedures, tests, etc..

They're called ICD codes. Ref: www.icd10data.com...

a reply to: carewemust

Ok, that means nothing until you meet your ever increasing deductibles, out of pockets and premiums. The hospitals can and do charge what they want.

a reply to: seasonal

as long as the heakthcare solutions involves the insurance oligopoly , the consumer will continue to get raped.

we need to get rid of or atleast break up the insurance ,healthcare, and pharmaceutical oligarchy industries to generate competion. they have to much power and control which creates little to no competion. they even tell your doctor how to treat you without even meeting you for a session.


if not we are better off going the dreaded socialisd route.

perhaps we should really redefine what it means to be a world leader or a first world nation.

a reply to: carewemust

If we want real competition, out law insurance companies. Anything else is a temp fallacy that will fail because for profit companies and inelastic demand are a horrible combo.

originally posted by: enlightenedservant
a reply to: EmmanuelGoldstein

The problem is that healthcare related companies are highly profitable. And those companies and their trade groups employ a lot of lobbyists to make sure the laws help them...

Well, I remember studying the French Revolution and the Bolshevik Russian Revolution.

1% of the population they say?

originally posted by: Throes
a reply to: EmmanuelGoldstein

Socialism? When has socialism ever worked?

Our republic has a lot of socialism baked into it. Plenty of those socialist systems work just fine.