Trump: 'Time for Republicans & Democrats to Get Together' on Health Care Plan

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Edumakated

Pointing out that things aren't perfect in a system you are opposed to is a cheap cop out. Everyone and their mother should know that nothing in life is perfect, nothing we create is perfect, and no system we implement is perfect. So pointing out that a system has a less than perfect track record is akin to being smug about telling someone that the sky is blue.

I'm just going to let the irony of this statement marinate a few to see if you get how hilarious your comment is in the context of the discussion.

a reply to: crazyewok

originally posted by: Xcalibur254
a reply to: NotToday

Those who can't afford it don't need it, as society has already determined their worth.

I work in an industry that many in society find to be essential. The fact that it's one of the oldest professions in the world supports this claim. It is also a notoriously low paying job, at least in the US, although I make just enough to cover a basic insurance plan. I'm a brewer.

I was also born with a heart defect that required surgery when I was one week old. I haven't had any complications from this condition since I had an angioplasty on my 22nd birthday *knock on wood.*

Now, for your average run of the mill illness I'll be fine with my current insurance. If my heart condition acts up there's no way I can pay for it. Do you believe that in that case I deserve to die?

Just because you play basketball doesn't mean society will pay you millions. Do you believe me and other people who work just as hard or harder than you should be forced to pay for your well being? Why don't you get a second job? You have time to bs on the internet. Do you think anyone in this country has a second job? Do you think people should work a second job to pay for your well being? I don't think you deserve to die, but do you think doctors should take the risk and go to 10 years of med school and fix you up on discount because you wanted to brew beer. Do you think I'd rather brew beer or read freaking contracts all day? Do you think because you're a brewer you deersve my money?

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Edumakated

Pointing out that things aren't perfect in a system you are opposed to is a cheap cop out. Everyone and their mother should know that nothing in life is perfect, nothing we create is perfect, and no system we implement is perfect. So pointing out that a system has a less than perfect track record is akin to being smug about telling someone that the sky is blue.

Meanwhile you progressives do nothing but rail against every system and social construct that isn't perfect. Do we really need to count the ways? You have to see the irony of this statement that you just made.

Vast majority of people were content with current healthcare system, but here come the Good Ole liberal goodie two shoes to blow up the system and create Obamacare.

You guys are constantly doing exactly what you just said. Trying to change and blow up every system if something isn't perfect instead of accepting just that... nothing is perfect.

a reply to: Edumakated

There is a difference between trying to point out the obvious that everything isn't perfect and trying to work towards perfection and root out flaws as you find them. Clearly you don't understand the difference though. I guess, according to you whenever an idea is thought up that is the end all be all it needs to EVER be developed. If people are satisfied with it, why improve on it? Huh? I wonder why we aren't still driving the Model T cars then?

originally posted by: NotToday

originally posted by: Xcalibur254
a reply to: NotToday

Those who can't afford it don't need it, as society has already determined their worth.

I work in an industry that many in society find to be essential. The fact that it's one of the oldest professions in the world supports this claim. It is also a notoriously low paying job, at least in the US, although I make just enough to cover a basic insurance plan. I'm a brewer.

I was also born with a heart defect that required surgery when I was one week old. I haven't had any complications from this condition since I had an angioplasty on my 22nd birthday *knock on wood.*

Now, for your average run of the mill illness I'll be fine with my current insurance. If my heart condition acts up there's no way I can pay for it. Do you believe that in that case I deserve to die?

Just because you play basketball doesn't mean society will pay you millions. Do you believe me and other people who work just as hard or harder than you should be forced to pay for your well being? Why don't you get a second job? You have time to bs on the internet. Do you think anyone in this country has a second job? Do you think people should work a second job to pay for your well being? I don't think you deserve to die, but do you think doctors should take the risk and go to 10 years of med school and fix you up on discount because you wanted to brew beer. Do you think I'd rather brew beer or read freaking contracts all day? Do you think because you're a brewer you deersve my money?

It's not YOUR money that is paying for others. Looking at it that way will make you miserable. Yes he deserves affordable healthcare just as anyone else with a heart condition and NO he should not have to work a second job to get it.

And what's up with the basketball reference? How old are you...my point being is you seem very immature and act like a complete tool.

originally posted by: Indigo5

originally posted by: NotToday

originally posted by: veracity

originally posted by: NotToday

originally posted by: veracity

originally posted by: NotToday

originally posted by: Aazadan

originally posted by: NotToday
I don't understand what's wrong with the get a job and pay for your own healthcare plan? Unless someone's disabled or under 18 I don't see the benefit of providing them care if they can't afford it themselves? Hasn't society already made the decision their utility is not worthy of care?

For one, it's not affordable. 40% of the country makes under $10/hour, and a lot of them live in large cities where you have 3 people sharing a 1 bedroom apartment in order to cover rent. You should be able to cover insurance on 10% of your wages, but at $10/hour without taking taxes into account that would only give you a premium of $173/month. Insurance costs more than that.

If it was not affordable how was 85% the population insured the year before Obamacare? I don't think we should subsidize people's poor life decisions and lack of societial worth. There's a reason the US has the best healthcare in the world for those who can afford it and it's not because we limit profit and costs.

The US has the best Healthcare in the world?

Yes, for those who can afford it. The US has the worlds the best hospitals, pharmaceutical industry, and university research system.

Just bc its the best and most expensive healthcare does not mean its the best system. The best system would be for it to be affordable for everyone and free for the poor.

If we leave out the poor, we are leaving weakness in the system, room for disease to spread and possibly new diseases to brew that have no cure.

No, the best system would be more affordable to everyone and let nature take its course on the people WHO SOCIETY HAS ALREADY DEEMED WORTHLESS.

You are confused on the definition of "SOCIETY"...

Capitalism deems anyone whose medical expenses exceeds their payments as unprofitable.

That goes for employed people as well. Let alone people that contract or are diagnosed with disease after being laid off.

Medical Bills were the #1 cause of bankruptcy in the USA for a decade running even during the housing crisis, near economic collapse...even during record breaking layoffs...Medical Bills still was the biggest cause of bankruptcy.

SOCIETY...Places great value on people being able to recover from illness and return to productivity.

Unfortunately Disease does not respond to Supply and Demand or capitalistic equations...

Cancer doesn't care how hard you work...it doesn't care about your investment in a PhD. Healthcare has no relationship with capitalism. It is a false association that causes our problems and the reason why the rest of the industrial world has socialized their healthcare.

Many a genius who has changed the world would have been lost if not for care they received while sick...

Going back in time to when we were simple tribes...even then we knew that feeding and healing a hunter and having them return to hunting was good for EVERYONE in the village...dragging them to the village edge when sick made for extinction.

Don't confuse the meaning of "SOCIETY"...SOCIETY is entirely premised on helping the least of us so that they can one day help all of us.

So my society didn't elect Trump on the platform of repealing Obamacare? Or you just don't like the fact it did?

a reply to: Martin75

I disagree. It was not ideal, true, but it is not a failure either. It is not black and white. The problem is the debate about it makes it seem as if those are the only two ways to look at it. There is plenty of grey area that needed to be fixed but Congress would not do it - they did everything they could to make it harder for the law to work as it was meant to, and did not lift a finger to fix things they could have fixed.

Peace to you,

originally posted by: veracity

originally posted by: NotToday

originally posted by: Xcalibur254
a reply to: NotToday

Those who can't afford it don't need it, as society has already determined their worth.

I work in an industry that many in society find to be essential. The fact that it's one of the oldest professions in the world supports this claim. It is also a notoriously low paying job, at least in the US, although I make just enough to cover a basic insurance plan. I'm a brewer.

I was also born with a heart defect that required surgery when I was one week old. I haven't had any complications from this condition since I had an angioplasty on my 22nd birthday *knock on wood.*

Now, for your average run of the mill illness I'll be fine with my current insurance. If my heart condition acts up there's no way I can pay for it. Do you believe that in that case I deserve to die?

Just because you play basketball doesn't mean society will pay you millions. Do you believe me and other people who work just as hard or harder than you should be forced to pay for your well being? Why don't you get a second job? You have time to bs on the internet. Do you think anyone in this country has a second job? Do you think people should work a second job to pay for your well being? I don't think you deserve to die, but do you think doctors should take the risk and go to 10 years of med school and fix you up on discount because you wanted to brew beer. Do you think I'd rather brew beer or read freaking contracts all day? Do you think because you're a brewer you deersve my money?

It's not YOUR money that is paying for others. Looking at it that way will make you miserable. Yes he deserves affordable healthcare just as anyone else with a heart condition and NO he should not have to work a second job to get it.

And what's up with the basketball reference? How old are you...my point being is you seem very immature and act like a complete tool.

So who's money is subsidizing his healthcare? I think he may need a first job. I'm old enough to not have other people subsidize my failures. Claiming because you're a brewer you deserve society's money is same as guys at YMCA wanting pro contracts.

originally posted by: NotToday

originally posted by: veracity

originally posted by: NotToday

originally posted by: veracity

originally posted by: NotToday

originally posted by: Aazadan

originally posted by: NotToday
I don't understand what's wrong with the get a job and pay for your own healthcare plan? Unless someone's disabled or under 18 I don't see the benefit of providing them care if they can't afford it themselves? Hasn't society already made the decision their utility is not worthy of care?

For one, it's not affordable. 40% of the country makes under $10/hour, and a lot of them live in large cities where you have 3 people sharing a 1 bedroom apartment in order to cover rent. You should be able to cover insurance on 10% of your wages, but at $10/hour without taking taxes into account that would only give you a premium of $173/month. Insurance costs more than that.

If it was not affordable how was 85% the population insured the year before Obamacare? I don't think we should subsidize people's poor life decisions and lack of societial worth. There's a reason the US has the best healthcare in the world for those who can afford it and it's not because we limit profit and costs.

The US has the best Healthcare in the world?

Yes, for those who can afford it. The US has the worlds the best hospitals, pharmaceutical industry, and university research system.

Just bc its the best and most expensive healthcare does not mean its the best system. The best system would be for it to be affordable for everyone and free for the poor.

If we leave out the poor, we are leaving weakness in the system, room for disease to spread and possibly new diseases to brew that have no cure.

No, the best system would be more affordable to everyone and let nature take its course on the people WHO SOCIETY HAS ALREADY DEEMED WORTHLESS. If we care for people that provide little to no benefit to society we are perpetuating weakness.

Um. Who exactly is worthless? Why?

"All men (people) are created equal..." I think I read that somewhere. Wait, is there another part that says "except for the people society has deemed to be useless?" Hm. Nope. Can't find that part.

Perhaps you were working off of a different country's constitution?

???

originally posted by: AboveBoard

originally posted by: NotToday

originally posted by: veracity

originally posted by: NotToday

originally posted by: veracity

originally posted by: NotToday

originally posted by: Aazadan

originally posted by: NotToday
I don't understand what's wrong with the get a job and pay for your own healthcare plan? Unless someone's disabled or under 18 I don't see the benefit of providing them care if they can't afford it themselves? Hasn't society already made the decision their utility is not worthy of care?

For one, it's not affordable. 40% of the country makes under $10/hour, and a lot of them live in large cities where you have 3 people sharing a 1 bedroom apartment in order to cover rent. You should be able to cover insurance on 10% of your wages, but at $10/hour without taking taxes into account that would only give you a premium of $173/month. Insurance costs more than that.

If it was not affordable how was 85% the population insured the year before Obamacare? I don't think we should subsidize people's poor life decisions and lack of societial worth. There's a reason the US has the best healthcare in the world for those who can afford it and it's not because we limit profit and costs.

The US has the best Healthcare in the world?

Yes, for those who can afford it. The US has the worlds the best hospitals, pharmaceutical industry, and university research system.

Just bc its the best and most expensive healthcare does not mean its the best system. The best system would be for it to be affordable for everyone and free for the poor.

If we leave out the poor, we are leaving weakness in the system, room for disease to spread and possibly new diseases to brew that have no cure.

No, the best system would be more affordable to everyone and let nature take its course on the people WHO SOCIETY HAS ALREADY DEEMED WORTHLESS. If we care for people that provide little to no benefit to society we are perpetuating weakness.

Um. Who exactly is worthless? Why?

"All men (people) are created equal..." I think I read that somewhere. Wait, is there another part that says "except for the people society has deemed to be useless?" Hm. Nope. Can't find that part.

Perhaps you were working off of a different country's constitution?

???

Equal rights does not mean equal outcomes, far from it. The people that millions of other people do not find worthy to pay a wage to provide them healthcare are worthless in the context of my post.

originally posted by: NotToday

originally posted by: Indigo5

originally posted by: NotToday

originally posted by: veracity

originally posted by: NotToday

originally posted by: veracity

originally posted by: NotToday

originally posted by: Aazadan

originally posted by: NotToday
I don't understand what's wrong with the get a job and pay for your own healthcare plan? Unless someone's disabled or under 18 I don't see the benefit of providing them care if they can't afford it themselves? Hasn't society already made the decision their utility is not worthy of care?

For one, it's not affordable. 40% of the country makes under $10/hour, and a lot of them live in large cities where you have 3 people sharing a 1 bedroom apartment in order to cover rent. You should be able to cover insurance on 10% of your wages, but at $10/hour without taking taxes into account that would only give you a premium of $173/month. Insurance costs more than that.

If it was not affordable how was 85% the population insured the year before Obamacare? I don't think we should subsidize people's poor life decisions and lack of societial worth. There's a reason the US has the best healthcare in the world for those who can afford it and it's not because we limit profit and costs.

The US has the best Healthcare in the world?

Yes, for those who can afford it. The US has the worlds the best hospitals, pharmaceutical industry, and university research system.

Just bc its the best and most expensive healthcare does not mean its the best system. The best system would be for it to be affordable for everyone and free for the poor.

If we leave out the poor, we are leaving weakness in the system, room for disease to spread and possibly new diseases to brew that have no cure.

No, the best system would be more affordable to everyone and let nature take its course on the people WHO SOCIETY HAS ALREADY DEEMED WORTHLESS.

You are confused on the definition of "SOCIETY"...

Capitalism deems anyone whose medical expenses exceeds their payments as unprofitable.

That goes for employed people as well. Let alone people that contract or are diagnosed with disease after being laid off.

Medical Bills were the #1 cause of bankruptcy in the USA for a decade running even during the housing crisis, near economic collapse...even during record breaking layoffs...Medical Bills still was the biggest cause of bankruptcy.

SOCIETY...Places great value on people being able to recover from illness and return to productivity.

Unfortunately Disease does not respond to Supply and Demand or capitalistic equations...

Cancer doesn't care how hard you work...it doesn't care about your investment in a PhD. Healthcare has no relationship with capitalism. It is a false association that causes our problems and the reason why the rest of the industrial world has socialized their healthcare.

Many a genius who has changed the world would have been lost if not for care they received while sick...

Going back in time to when we were simple tribes...even then we knew that feeding and healing a hunter and having them return to hunting was good for EVERYONE in the village...dragging them to the village edge when sick made for extinction.

Don't confuse the meaning of "SOCIETY"...SOCIETY is entirely premised on helping the least of us so that they can one day help all of us.

So my society didn't elect Trump on the platform of repealing Obamacare? Or you just don't like the fact it did?

Not sure who "Your Society" is?

As for the Trump voters (minority of populace) ...many of them use Obamacare and are looking for an IMPROVED version...Many of them are exactly the ones who can not afford healthcare..Like most of rural Apalachia..They find themselves with limited to no employment options or as you described them "society already made the decision their utility is not worthy of care? "

Trump himself pandered to those people saying they would replace it with coverage that would cover everyone at more affordable costs.

PA, WV, OH, IN (Under VP Elect Pence), KY, AK have all expanded Medicare under Obamacare to cover it's rural poor.

Florida, Texas, North Carolina and Goergia are leading the country in the top 5 along with CA for raw tax dollars used in Obamacare...

Or you can look at "Your Society" by raw enrollees..

In a twist, the states with the most people selecting coverage all went for Trump in the presidential election: Florida, with just under 1.3 million selections; Texas, with about 776,000; North Carolina, with 369,077; Georgia, with 352,000; and Pennsylvania, with 290,950.

abcnews.go.com...

Let's see how ...whatever you think "Your Society" is...feels about Trump in 4 years after the GOP thoroughly screw them over as they are racing to do.

originally posted by: Indigo5

originally posted by: NotToday

originally posted by: Indigo5

originally posted by: NotToday

originally posted by: veracity

originally posted by: NotToday

originally posted by: veracity

originally posted by: NotToday

originally posted by: Aazadan

originally posted by: NotToday
I don't understand what's wrong with the get a job and pay for your own healthcare plan? Unless someone's disabled or under 18 I don't see the benefit of providing them care if they can't afford it themselves? Hasn't society already made the decision their utility is not worthy of care?

For one, it's not affordable. 40% of the country makes under $10/hour, and a lot of them live in large cities where you have 3 people sharing a 1 bedroom apartment in order to cover rent. You should be able to cover insurance on 10% of your wages, but at $10/hour without taking taxes into account that would only give you a premium of $173/month. Insurance costs more than that.

If it was not affordable how was 85% the population insured the year before Obamacare? I don't think we should subsidize people's poor life decisions and lack of societial worth. There's a reason the US has the best healthcare in the world for those who can afford it and it's not because we limit profit and costs.

The US has the best Healthcare in the world?

Yes, for those who can afford it. The US has the worlds the best hospitals, pharmaceutical industry, and university research system.

Just bc its the best and most expensive healthcare does not mean its the best system. The best system would be for it to be affordable for everyone and free for the poor.

If we leave out the poor, we are leaving weakness in the system, room for disease to spread and possibly new diseases to brew that have no cure.

No, the best system would be more affordable to everyone and let nature take its course on the people WHO SOCIETY HAS ALREADY DEEMED WORTHLESS.

You are confused on the definition of "SOCIETY"...

Capitalism deems anyone whose medical expenses exceeds their payments as unprofitable.

That goes for employed people as well. Let alone people that contract or are diagnosed with disease after being laid off.

Medical Bills were the #1 cause of bankruptcy in the USA for a decade running even during the housing crisis, near economic collapse...even during record breaking layoffs...Medical Bills still was the biggest cause of bankruptcy.

SOCIETY...Places great value on people being able to recover from illness and return to productivity.

Unfortunately Disease does not respond to Supply and Demand or capitalistic equations...

Cancer doesn't care how hard you work...it doesn't care about your investment in a PhD. Healthcare has no relationship with capitalism. It is a false association that causes our problems and the reason why the rest of the industrial world has socialized their healthcare.

Many a genius who has changed the world would have been lost if not for care they received while sick...

Going back in time to when we were simple tribes...even then we knew that feeding and healing a hunter and having them return to hunting was good for EVERYONE in the village...dragging them to the village edge when sick made for extinction.

Don't confuse the meaning of "SOCIETY"...SOCIETY is entirely premised on helping the least of us so that they can one day help all of us.

So my society didn't elect Trump on the platform of repealing Obamacare? Or you just don't like the fact it did?

Not sure who "Your Society" is?

As for the Trump voters (minority of populace) ...many of them use Obamacare and are looking for an IMPROVED version...Many of them are exactly the ones who can not afford healthcare..Like most of rural Apalachia..They find themselves with limited to no employment options or as you described them "society already made the decision their utility is not worthy of care? "

Trump himself pandered to those people saying they would replace it with coverage that would cover everyone at more affordable costs.

PA, WV, OH, IN (Under VP Elect Pence), KY, AK have all expanded Medicare under Obamacare to cover it's rural poor.

Florida, Texas, North Carolina and Goergia are leading the country in the top 5 along with CA for raw tax dollars used in Obamacare...

Or you can look at "Your Society" by raw enrollees.

In a twist, the states with the most people selecting coverage all went for Trump in the presidential election: Florida, with just under 1.3 million selections; Texas, with about 776,000; North Carolina, with 369,077; Georgia, with 352,000; and Pennsylvania, with 290,950.

abcnews.go.com...

Let's see how whatever you think "Your Society" feels about Trump in 4 years after the GOP thoroughly screw them over as they are racing to do.

Citing enrollees coerced into Obamacare is not indiciative of its success. Hillary was for reforming trump for repealing.

originally posted by: NotToday

originally posted by: Indigo5

originally posted by: NotToday

originally posted by: Indigo5

originally posted by: NotToday

originally posted by: veracity

originally posted by: NotToday

originally posted by: veracity

originally posted by: NotToday

originally posted by: Aazadan

originally posted by: NotToday
I don't understand what's wrong with the get a job and pay for your own healthcare plan? Unless someone's disabled or under 18 I don't see the benefit of providing them care if they can't afford it themselves? Hasn't society already made the decision their utility is not worthy of care?

For one, it's not affordable. 40% of the country makes under $10/hour, and a lot of them live in large cities where you have 3 people sharing a 1 bedroom apartment in order to cover rent. You should be able to cover insurance on 10% of your wages, but at $10/hour without taking taxes into account that would only give you a premium of $173/month. Insurance costs more than that.

If it was not affordable how was 85% the population insured the year before Obamacare? I don't think we should subsidize people's poor life decisions and lack of societial worth. There's a reason the US has the best healthcare in the world for those who can afford it and it's not because we limit profit and costs.

The US has the best Healthcare in the world?

Yes, for those who can afford it. The US has the worlds the best hospitals, pharmaceutical industry, and university research system.

Just bc its the best and most expensive healthcare does not mean its the best system. The best system would be for it to be affordable for everyone and free for the poor.

If we leave out the poor, we are leaving weakness in the system, room for disease to spread and possibly new diseases to brew that have no cure.

No, the best system would be more affordable to everyone and let nature take its course on the people WHO SOCIETY HAS ALREADY DEEMED WORTHLESS.

You are confused on the definition of "SOCIETY"...

Capitalism deems anyone whose medical expenses exceeds their payments as unprofitable.

That goes for employed people as well. Let alone people that contract or are diagnosed with disease after being laid off.

Medical Bills were the #1 cause of bankruptcy in the USA for a decade running even during the housing crisis, near economic collapse...even during record breaking layoffs...Medical Bills still was the biggest cause of bankruptcy.

SOCIETY...Places great value on people being able to recover from illness and return to productivity.

Unfortunately Disease does not respond to Supply and Demand or capitalistic equations...

Cancer doesn't care how hard you work...it doesn't care about your investment in a PhD. Healthcare has no relationship with capitalism. It is a false association that causes our problems and the reason why the rest of the industrial world has socialized their healthcare.

Many a genius who has changed the world would have been lost if not for care they received while sick...

Going back in time to when we were simple tribes...even then we knew that feeding and healing a hunter and having them return to hunting was good for EVERYONE in the village...dragging them to the village edge when sick made for extinction.

Don't confuse the meaning of "SOCIETY"...SOCIETY is entirely premised on helping the least of us so that they can one day help all of us.

So my society didn't elect Trump on the platform of repealing Obamacare? Or you just don't like the fact it did?

Not sure who "Your Society" is?

As for the Trump voters (minority of populace) ...many of them use Obamacare and are looking for an IMPROVED version...Many of them are exactly the ones who can not afford healthcare..Like most of rural Apalachia..They find themselves with limited to no employment options or as you described them "society already made the decision their utility is not worthy of care? "

Trump himself pandered to those people saying they would replace it with coverage that would cover everyone at more affordable costs.

PA, WV, OH, IN (Under VP Elect Pence), KY, AK have all expanded Medicare under Obamacare to cover it's rural poor.

Florida, Texas, North Carolina and Goergia are leading the country in the top 5 along with CA for raw tax dollars used in Obamacare...

Or you can look at "Your Society" by raw enrollees.

In a twist, the states with the most people selecting coverage all went for Trump in the presidential election: Florida, with just under 1.3 million selections; Texas, with about 776,000; North Carolina, with 369,077; Georgia, with 352,000; and Pennsylvania, with 290,950.

abcnews.go.com...

Let's see how whatever you think "Your Society" feels about Trump in 4 years after the GOP thoroughly screw them over as they are racing to do.

Citing enrollees coerced into Obamacare is not indiciative of its success. Hillary was for reforming trump for repealing.

Oh...I am not opposed to repeal..It is going to be the death of both Trump and the GOP.
They kind of know it with Trump trying to walk back everything about repealing Obamacare except the word "Obamacare" and the GOP begging the Dems for help on what to do next.

Again...the states with the most people on the program they are repealing? With absolutely no viable plan to replace after a decade to try and come up with an alternate solution?

In a twist, the states with the most people selecting coverage all went for Trump in the presidential election:
Florida, with just under 1.3 million selections;
Texas, with about 776,000;
North Carolina, with 369,077;
Georgia, with 352,000;
and Pennsylvania, with 290,950.

This is going to be an interesting 4 years...

originally posted by: Indigo5

originally posted by: NotToday

originally posted by: Indigo5

originally posted by: NotToday

originally posted by: Indigo5

originally posted by: NotToday

originally posted by: veracity

originally posted by: NotToday

originally posted by: veracity

originally posted by: NotToday

originally posted by: Aazadan

originally posted by: NotToday
I don't understand what's wrong with the get a job and pay for your own healthcare plan? Unless someone's disabled or under 18 I don't see the benefit of providing them care if they can't afford it themselves? Hasn't society already made the decision their utility is not worthy of care?

For one, it's not affordable. 40% of the country makes under $10/hour, and a lot of them live in large cities where you have 3 people sharing a 1 bedroom apartment in order to cover rent. You should be able to cover insurance on 10% of your wages, but at $10/hour without taking taxes into account that would only give you a premium of $173/month. Insurance costs more than that.

If it was not affordable how was 85% the population insured the year before Obamacare? I don't think we should subsidize people's poor life decisions and lack of societial worth. There's a reason the US has the best healthcare in the world for those who can afford it and it's not because we limit profit and costs.

The US has the best Healthcare in the world?

Yes, for those who can afford it. The US has the worlds the best hospitals, pharmaceutical industry, and university research system.

Just bc its the best and most expensive healthcare does not mean its the best system. The best system would be for it to be affordable for everyone and free for the poor.

If we leave out the poor, we are leaving weakness in the system, room for disease to spread and possibly new diseases to brew that have no cure.

No, the best system would be more affordable to everyone and let nature take its course on the people WHO SOCIETY HAS ALREADY DEEMED WORTHLESS.

You are confused on the definition of "SOCIETY"...

Capitalism deems anyone whose medical expenses exceeds their payments as unprofitable.

That goes for employed people as well. Let alone people that contract or are diagnosed with disease after being laid off.

Medical Bills were the #1 cause of bankruptcy in the USA for a decade running even during the housing crisis, near economic collapse...even during record breaking layoffs...Medical Bills still was the biggest cause of bankruptcy.

SOCIETY...Places great value on people being able to recover from illness and return to productivity.

Unfortunately Disease does not respond to Supply and Demand or capitalistic equations...

Cancer doesn't care how hard you work...it doesn't care about your investment in a PhD. Healthcare has no relationship with capitalism. It is a false association that causes our problems and the reason why the rest of the industrial world has socialized their healthcare.

Many a genius who has changed the world would have been lost if not for care they received while sick...

Going back in time to when we were simple tribes...even then we knew that feeding and healing a hunter and having them return to hunting was good for EVERYONE in the village...dragging them to the village edge when sick made for extinction.

Don't confuse the meaning of "SOCIETY"...SOCIETY is entirely premised on helping the least of us so that they can one day help all of us.

So my society didn't elect Trump on the platform of repealing Obamacare? Or you just don't like the fact it did?

Not sure who "Your Society" is?

As for the Trump voters (minority of populace) ...many of them use Obamacare and are looking for an IMPROVED version...Many of them are exactly the ones who can not afford healthcare..Like most of rural Apalachia..They find themselves with limited to no employment options or as you described them "society already made the decision their utility is not worthy of care? "

Trump himself pandered to those people saying they would replace it with coverage that would cover everyone at more affordable costs.

PA, WV, OH, IN (Under VP Elect Pence), KY, AK have all expanded Medicare under Obamacare to cover it's rural poor.

Florida, Texas, North Carolina and Goergia are leading the country in the top 5 along with CA for raw tax dollars used in Obamacare...

Or you can look at "Your Society" by raw enrollees.

In a twist, the states with the most people selecting coverage all went for Trump in the presidential election: Florida, with just under 1.3 million selections; Texas, with about 776,000; North Carolina, with 369,077; Georgia, with 352,000; and Pennsylvania, with 290,950.

abcnews.go.com...

Let's see how whatever you think "Your Society" feels about Trump in 4 years after the GOP thoroughly screw them over as they are racing to do.

Citing enrollees coerced into Obamacare is not indiciative of its success. Hillary was for reforming trump for repealing.

Oh...I am not opposed to repeal..It is going to be the death of both Trump and the GOP.
They kind of know it with Trump trying to walk back everything about repealing Obamacare except the word "Obamacare" and the GOP begging the Dems for help on what to do next.

Again...the states with the most people on the program they are repealing?

In a twist, the states with the most people selecting coverage all went for Trump in the presidential election:
Florida, with just under 1.3 million selections;
Texas, with about 776,000;
North Carolina, with 369,077;
Georgia, with 352,000;
and Pennsylvania, with 290,950.

This is going to be an interesting 4 years...

Obviously Russian hack and fake news influenced those states to vote trump not increased costs from mandated monopolies and subsidizing enlightened dems who earn less than they do.

originally posted by: NotToday

originally posted by: Indigo5

originally posted by: NotToday

originally posted by: Indigo5

originally posted by: NotToday

originally posted by: Indigo5

originally posted by: NotToday

originally posted by: veracity

originally posted by: NotToday

originally posted by: veracity

originally posted by: NotToday

originally posted by: Aazadan

originally posted by: NotToday
I don't understand what's wrong with the get a job and pay for your own healthcare plan? Unless someone's disabled or under 18 I don't see the benefit of providing them care if they can't afford it themselves? Hasn't society already made the decision their utility is not worthy of care?

For one, it's not affordable. 40% of the country makes under $10/hour, and a lot of them live in large cities where you have 3 people sharing a 1 bedroom apartment in order to cover rent. You should be able to cover insurance on 10% of your wages, but at $10/hour without taking taxes into account that would only give you a premium of $173/month. Insurance costs more than that.

If it was not affordable how was 85% the population insured the year before Obamacare? I don't think we should subsidize people's poor life decisions and lack of societial worth. There's a reason the US has the best healthcare in the world for those who can afford it and it's not because we limit profit and costs.

The US has the best Healthcare in the world?

Yes, for those who can afford it. The US has the worlds the best hospitals, pharmaceutical industry, and university research system.

Just bc its the best and most expensive healthcare does not mean its the best system. The best system would be for it to be affordable for everyone and free for the poor.

If we leave out the poor, we are leaving weakness in the system, room for disease to spread and possibly new diseases to brew that have no cure.

No, the best system would be more affordable to everyone and let nature take its course on the people WHO SOCIETY HAS ALREADY DEEMED WORTHLESS.

You are confused on the definition of "SOCIETY"...

Capitalism deems anyone whose medical expenses exceeds their payments as unprofitable.

That goes for employed people as well. Let alone people that contract or are diagnosed with disease after being laid off.

Medical Bills were the #1 cause of bankruptcy in the USA for a decade running even during the housing crisis, near economic collapse...even during record breaking layoffs...Medical Bills still was the biggest cause of bankruptcy.

SOCIETY...Places great value on people being able to recover from illness and return to productivity.

Unfortunately Disease does not respond to Supply and Demand or capitalistic equations...

Cancer doesn't care how hard you work...it doesn't care about your investment in a PhD. Healthcare has no relationship with capitalism. It is a false association that causes our problems and the reason why the rest of the industrial world has socialized their healthcare.

Many a genius who has changed the world would have been lost if not for care they received while sick...

Going back in time to when we were simple tribes...even then we knew that feeding and healing a hunter and having them return to hunting was good for EVERYONE in the village...dragging them to the village edge when sick made for extinction.

Don't confuse the meaning of "SOCIETY"...SOCIETY is entirely premised on helping the least of us so that they can one day help all of us.

So my society didn't elect Trump on the platform of repealing Obamacare? Or you just don't like the fact it did?

Not sure who "Your Society" is?

As for the Trump voters (minority of populace) ...many of them use Obamacare and are looking for an IMPROVED version...Many of them are exactly the ones who can not afford healthcare..Like most of rural Apalachia..They find themselves with limited to no employment options or as you described them "society already made the decision their utility is not worthy of care? "

Trump himself pandered to those people saying they would replace it with coverage that would cover everyone at more affordable costs.

PA, WV, OH, IN (Under VP Elect Pence), KY, AK have all expanded Medicare under Obamacare to cover it's rural poor.

Florida, Texas, North Carolina and Goergia are leading the country in the top 5 along with CA for raw tax dollars used in Obamacare...

Or you can look at "Your Society" by raw enrollees.

In a twist, the states with the most people selecting coverage all went for Trump in the presidential election: Florida, with just under 1.3 million selections; Texas, with about 776,000; North Carolina, with 369,077; Georgia, with 352,000; and Pennsylvania, with 290,950.

abcnews.go.com...

Let's see how whatever you think "Your Society" feels about Trump in 4 years after the GOP thoroughly screw them over as they are racing to do.

Citing enrollees coerced into Obamacare is not indiciative of its success. Hillary was for reforming trump for repealing.

Oh...I am not opposed to repeal..It is going to be the death of both Trump and the GOP.
They kind of know it with Trump trying to walk back everything about repealing Obamacare except the word "Obamacare" and the GOP begging the Dems for help on what to do next.

Again...the states with the most people on the program they are repealing?

In a twist, the states with the most people selecting coverage all went for Trump in the presidential election:
Florida, with just under 1.3 million selections;
Texas, with about 776,000;
North Carolina, with 369,077;
Georgia, with 352,000;
and Pennsylvania, with 290,950.

This is going to be an interesting 4 years...

Obviously Russian hack and fake news influenced those states to vote trump not increased costs from mandated monopolies and subsidizing enlightened dems who earn less than they do.

That post is more ideological word vomit than anything I can respond to logically..

originally posted by: Indigo5

originally posted by: NotToday

originally posted by: Indigo5

originally posted by: NotToday

originally posted by: Indigo5

originally posted by: NotToday

originally posted by: Indigo5

originally posted by: NotToday

originally posted by: veracity

originally posted by: NotToday

originally posted by: veracity

originally posted by: NotToday

originally posted by: Aazadan

originally posted by: NotToday
I don't understand what's wrong with the get a job and pay for your own healthcare plan? Unless someone's disabled or under 18 I don't see the benefit of providing them care if they can't afford it themselves? Hasn't society already made the decision their utility is not worthy of care?

For one, it's not affordable. 40% of the country makes under $10/hour, and a lot of them live in large cities where you have 3 people sharing a 1 bedroom apartment in order to cover rent. You should be able to cover insurance on 10% of your wages, but at $10/hour without taking taxes into account that would only give you a premium of $173/month. Insurance costs more than that.

If it was not affordable how was 85% the population insured the year before Obamacare? I don't think we should subsidize people's poor life decisions and lack of societial worth. There's a reason the US has the best healthcare in the world for those who can afford it and it's not because we limit profit and costs.

The US has the best Healthcare in the world?

Yes, for those who can afford it. The US has the worlds the best hospitals, pharmaceutical industry, and university research system.

Just bc its the best and most expensive healthcare does not mean its the best system. The best system would be for it to be affordable for everyone and free for the poor.

If we leave out the poor, we are leaving weakness in the system, room for disease to spread and possibly new diseases to brew that have no cure.

No, the best system would be more affordable to everyone and let nature take its course on the people WHO SOCIETY HAS ALREADY DEEMED WORTHLESS.

You are confused on the definition of "SOCIETY"...

Capitalism deems anyone whose medical expenses exceeds their payments as unprofitable.

That goes for employed people as well. Let alone people that contract or are diagnosed with disease after being laid off.

Medical Bills were the #1 cause of bankruptcy in the USA for a decade running even during the housing crisis, near economic collapse...even during record breaking layoffs...Medical Bills still was the biggest cause of bankruptcy.

SOCIETY...Places great value on people being able to recover from illness and return to productivity.

Unfortunately Disease does not respond to Supply and Demand or capitalistic equations...

Cancer doesn't care how hard you work...it doesn't care about your investment in a PhD. Healthcare has no relationship with capitalism. It is a false association that causes our problems and the reason why the rest of the industrial world has socialized their healthcare.

Many a genius who has changed the world would have been lost if not for care they received while sick...

Going back in time to when we were simple tribes...even then we knew that feeding and healing a hunter and having them return to hunting was good for EVERYONE in the village...dragging them to the village edge when sick made for extinction.

Don't confuse the meaning of "SOCIETY"...SOCIETY is entirely premised on helping the least of us so that they can one day help all of us.

So my society didn't elect Trump on the platform of repealing Obamacare? Or you just don't like the fact it did?

Not sure who "Your Society" is?

As for the Trump voters (minority of populace) ...many of them use Obamacare and are looking for an IMPROVED version...Many of them are exactly the ones who can not afford healthcare..Like most of rural Apalachia..They find themselves with limited to no employment options or as you described them "society already made the decision their utility is not worthy of care? "

Trump himself pandered to those people saying they would replace it with coverage that would cover everyone at more affordable costs.

PA, WV, OH, IN (Under VP Elect Pence), KY, AK have all expanded Medicare under Obamacare to cover it's rural poor.

Florida, Texas, North Carolina and Goergia are leading the country in the top 5 along with CA for raw tax dollars used in Obamacare...

Or you can look at "Your Society" by raw enrollees.

In a twist, the states with the most people selecting coverage all went for Trump in the presidential election: Florida, with just under 1.3 million selections; Texas, with about 776,000; North Carolina, with 369,077; Georgia, with 352,000; and Pennsylvania, with 290,950.

abcnews.go.com...

Let's see how whatever you think "Your Society" feels about Trump in 4 years after the GOP thoroughly screw them over as they are racing to do.

Citing enrollees coerced into Obamacare is not indiciative of its success. Hillary was for reforming trump for repealing.

Oh...I am not opposed to repeal..It is going to be the death of both Trump and the GOP.
They kind of know it with Trump trying to walk back everything about repealing Obamacare except the word "Obamacare" and the GOP begging the Dems for help on what to do next.

Again...the states with the most people on the program they are repealing?

In a twist, the states with the most people selecting coverage all went for Trump in the presidential election:
Florida, with just under 1.3 million selections;
Texas, with about 776,000;
North Carolina, with 369,077;
Georgia, with 352,000;
and Pennsylvania, with 290,950.

This is going to be an interesting 4 years...

Obviously Russian hack and fake news influenced those states to vote trump not increased costs from mandated monopolies and subsidizing enlightened dems who earn less than they do.

That post is more ideological word vomit than anything I can respond to logically..

Whatever

originally posted by: NotToday

originally posted by: Indigo5

originally posted by: NotToday

originally posted by: Indigo5

originally posted by: NotToday

originally posted by: Indigo5

originally posted by: NotToday

originally posted by: veracity

originally posted by: NotToday

originally posted by: veracity

originally posted by: NotToday

originally posted by: Aazadan

originally posted by: NotToday
I don't understand what's wrong with the get a job and pay for your own healthcare plan? Unless someone's disabled or under 18 I don't see the benefit of providing them care if they can't afford it themselves? Hasn't society already made the decision their utility is not worthy of care?

If it was not affordable how was 85% the population insured the year before Obamacare? I don't think we should subsidize people's poor life decisions and lack of societial worth. There's a reason the US has the best healthcare in the world for those who can afford it and it's not because we limit profit and costs.

The US has the best Healthcare in the world?

Just bc its the best and most expensive healthcare does not mean its the best system. The best system would be for it to be affordable for everyone and free for the poor.

If we leave out the poor, we are leaving weakness in the system, room for disease to spread and possibly new diseases to brew that have no cure.

No, the best system would be more affordable to everyone and let nature take its course on the people WHO SOCIETY HAS ALREADY DEEMED WORTHLESS.

You are confused on the definition of "SOCIETY"...

Capitalism deems anyone whose medical expenses exceeds their payments as unprofitable.

That goes for employed people as well. Let alone people that contract or are diagnosed with disease after being laid off.

Medical Bills were the #1 cause of bankruptcy in the USA for a decade running even during the housing crisis, near economic collapse...even during record breaking layoffs...Medical Bills still was the biggest cause of bankruptcy.

SOCIETY...Places great value on people being able to recover from illness and return to productivity.

Unfortunately Disease does not respond to Supply and Demand or capitalistic equations...

Cancer doesn't care how hard you work...it doesn't care about your investment in a PhD. Healthcare has no relationship with capitalism. It is a false association that causes our problems and the reason why the rest of the industrial world has socialized their healthcare.

Many a genius who has changed the world would have been lost if not for care they received while sick...

Going back in time to when we were simple tribes...even then we knew that feeding and healing a hunter and having them return to hunting was good for EVERYONE in the village...dragging them to the village edge when sick made for extinction.

Don't confuse the meaning of "SOCIETY"...SOCIETY is entirely premised on helping the least of us so that they can one day help all of us.

So my society didn't elect Trump on the platform of repealing Obamacare? Or you just don't like the fact it did?

Not sure who "Your Society" is?

As for the Trump voters (minority of populace) ...many of them use Obamacare and are looking for an IMPROVED version...Many of them are exactly the ones who can not afford healthcare..Like most of rural Apalachia..They find themselves with limited to no employment options or as you described them "society already made the decision their utility is not worthy of care? "

Trump himself pandered to those people saying they would replace it with coverage that would cover everyone at more affordable costs.

PA, WV, OH, IN (Under VP Elect Pence), KY, AK have all expanded Medicare under Obamacare to cover it's rural poor.

Florida, Texas, North Carolina and Goergia are leading the country in the top 5 along with CA for raw tax dollars used in Obamacare...

Or you can look at "Your Society" by raw enrollees.

In a twist, the states with the most people selecting coverage all went for Trump in the presidential election: Florida, with just under 1.3 million selections; Texas, with about 776,000; North Carolina, with 369,077; Georgia, with 352,000; and Pennsylvania, with 290,950.

abcnews.go.com...

Let's see how whatever you think "Your Society" feels about Trump in 4 years after the GOP thoroughly screw them over as they are racing to do.

Citing enrollees coerced into Obamacare is not indiciative of its success. Hillary was for reforming trump for repealing.

Oh...I am not opposed to repeal..It is going to be the death of both Trump and the GOP.
They kind of know it with Trump trying to walk back everything about repealing Obamacare except the word "Obamacare" and the GOP begging the Dems for help on what to do next.

Again...the states with the most people on the program they are repealing?

In a twist, the states with the most people selecting coverage all went for Trump in the presidential election:
Florida, with just under 1.3 million selections;
Texas, with about 776,000;
North Carolina, with 369,077;
Georgia, with 352,000;
and Pennsylvania, with 290,950.

This is going to be an interesting 4 years...

Obviously Russian hack and fake news influenced those states to vote trump not increased costs from mandated monopolies and subsidizing enlightened dems who earn less than they do.

OK I will try logic...

THESE states LEAD in OBAMACARE ENROLLEES

In a twist, the states with the most people selecting coverage all went for Trump in the presidential election:
Florida, with just under 1.3 million selections;
Texas, with about 776,000;
North Carolina, with 369,077;
Georgia, with 352,000;
and Pennsylvania, with 290,950.

Those enrollees are not "subsidizing enlightened dems who earn less than they do. "...People do not enroll in Obamacare to subsidize people who "earn less than they do." They enroll to RECIEVE subsides.

(1) FLORIDA
(2) TEXAS
(3) NORTH CAROLINA
(4) GEORGIA
(5) PENNSYVANNIA

Are the top states with the MOST people RECIEVING SUBSIDEES.

So they will be the states to feel the repeal the MOST.

THAT is why the GOP are stuck with following through with their decade old promise of killing the ACA which just so happens to be used by the people they need to ever win another election.

It is the same crowd that said repeatedly in surveys they hated Obamacare but liked the Affordable Care Act! Without ever realizing it was the same thing.

A WHOLE LOT of rural voters are going to wake up and ask WTF happened to my ACA!!

Only in America!! And NO the Dems should not share the blame for the cluster-eff the GOP have put themselves in by "contributing"...The GOP got what they wanted...let them show the world what happens next.

No, sorry, the GOP had 6 years to work with the left on healthcare and instead spent it undermining the whole thing.

originally posted by: Pyle
No, sorry, the GOP had 6 years to work with the left on healthcare and instead spent it undermining the whole thing.

If it was a sincere invitation, I would encourage the Dems to help and put politics aside.
But CLEARLY the GOP knows they are screwed and need someone to blame when the # hits the fan...why not ask the Dems to help us with the new bill?