Undeniable proof that Bush has lied about the war on terror and Iraq.

Originally posted by AlwaysLearning

Originally posted by deesw
I'm sorry, I thought that as Americans, we are supposed to support our President, and military....

Anyone living in a democracy has the right and a duty to question their government...not just follow blindly. ...We should and must expect truth and accountability from our elected officials.

Questioning your government...its the cornerstone of democracy and means that yes, you love your country.

I just have to say it again.

Anyone living in a democracy has the right and duty to question their government...not just follow blindly. ...We should and must expect truth and accountability from our elected officials.

Questioning government is the cornerstone of democracy. It means that yes, you love your country.


Great thread Dad. Keep up the good work.


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Have not posted in awhile so hi to all and to you Kidfinger. In my observance of the posts it struck me sadly that the bigger picture of the nasty game we call American politics has been missed - that being the mere fact of an agenda whereof seekerof pointed out, is many. Many that is, personal agendas all working and struggling under a common goal, power. Whether money (oil), security (Israel), redemption (George W.), the greater issues lie within the men who have power and are able to wield that power according to their deep desires.

Under the banner and guise of red, white, and blue - freedom - I see a 21 year old kid with no leg, having it blown off to an IED, and the daily struggle he must SERVE for the rest of his life trying to cope with and understand why he gave the sacrifice of his body. And though his superiors, who have lost nothing thus far, say well done hero, he struggles to believe "am I a hero? am I a hero for stepping on a mine?" As the youth disappears and the problems of life do not, and the hard core truth of existence and the lies and deceit of men drum in like 7.62 rounds, one can only find himself bitter, perplexed, and grieving; fighting against that very truth of freedom spat out to the masses by the politicians who are catered to as fat kings never wondering how they shall pay next weeks bills by the money that is not in the account today.

It takes very little brain power for those who are interested to find out what the war in Iraq was all about. I shall sum it up for you to argue about. First off lets talk about commodities. Oil is a commodity and many of you are wondering in your greedy little hearts why our oil prices are not going down since we now have the contracts for the second largest oil producing nation on the planet. I have one sentence for you: Sell short next year. The primary reason oil is, high, is not becasue of heating oil, or BS Venezuela interior issues or the like. It is simply Muslim OPEC getting what they can before oil is no longer an economic stability issue. OPEC understands that America is the biggest CUSTOMER of Iraq oil and so will be Europe and Japan. OPEC is very disturbed to see forecasts of 30% losses over the next ten years and the European Union is very disturbed to see that they are now unable to pressure Japan to join the EU to put pressure on the dollar merging with the Euro.

There are very many issues involved that have been issues since the 70's. However, you certainly cannot educate the average American drone on complex issues of economics nor on the more complex issues of controlling a religion that is perceived (and is) a threat. Do you really believe that the United States Senate was unaware of the faulty evidence of WMD's or on the fact that Iraq has been coveted for their oil since the 40's. Why do you think Britain never wavered in joining with the mighty U.S. for invasion? Oh how the ignorant of history err. Do you believe it was to keep our precious intelligence sharing that we have enjoyed since WWII? Or to hedge commodities and technology?

It was a win-win war for those in the Middle east. A semi-containable front where war can be waged against a hostile religion, where the future of oil commodities can be waged against our current asskissing agendas with OPEC and those with black blood (Saudi Arabia). Do you think that it does not pain George Sr. to kiss foreign buttocks?

Beyond oil we have the zealots (Perle, Wolfowitz) of security. Men who have spent their careers as the voice of America and Israel. As I watched Perle speak the other night on the foolishness of leaving Iraq to defend themselves I could only laugh to think he gave any bit of a damn for those people. It's his arse on the line, his reputation, as the think tank who maneuvered America into war for HIS agenda not the young boys who bleed. Perle's nick name by the way is the Prince of Darkness and if one wishes to delve into the history of such men you will see why he is called such. His reason to stay in Iraq has nothing to do with keeping marines from dieing in vain.

You also need to understand that Iraq is already won. There is no need for military bases long term as the Iraqi's can run their own country. As long as no one EVER screws with our (Iraqi) oil wells there will be no reason to have a military intervention in the guise of freedon or stopping insurgency. The monumental elections we see taking place on Sunday is one of the most ridiculous clones of democracy in history. Our history will certainly warp the facts of this MONUMENTAL occassion. Granted those who vote in Iraq do not even know who the candidates are but hell as long as they can vote thats progress. The most amazing and disturbing fact is that Americans as a whole are completley ignorant of what is going on and proves how not only demoralized and brain washed we are as a nation but on how severley uneducated Americans are in anything to do with government, culture, or corporate control.

The question that Ted Koppel should be asking is not when will our troops be pulled out, but what compensation will be given for my son or daughter who bleeds for your agenda? Can our sons and daughters, husbands and wives who lose their lives receive muti-million dollar compensation so that their family members may advertise and buy a seat on congress? Thats a little harsh as we cannot buy a seat in congress nor can we buy our way into the white house. Only the most educated and sought after professional's with track records of success can enter such positions, or if you prefer be voted into office right? It's America anyone can be president right? Were not a country rulled by a king, were a democracy who spreads freedom aren't we?

When you wake up tommorrow and go to work and come home to your kids make sure you educate them as to the current times of your government or this freedom loving nation will suck the life out of them faster than playstation II. Lies are a strategy and a means to deceive. It's unfortunate that the very leader of this nation do not understnad the difference. It looks like communist detente has permeated our society after all. To deny ignorance you must first discover what it is you are ignorant of.

That was an awesome post vincere7. Well said. I only thing I disagreed with was:

"It's America anyone can be president right? Were not a country rulled by a king, were a democracy who spreads freedom aren't we?"


Only the elite rich can make it to high level positions in America...and most places in the world.

Case in point, Dubya wasn't a success at anything...never got his hands dirty in his life, never had to. Everything handed to him on a silver platter, including the governorship and the presidency.

Its part of a bigger game...and the sooner we all realize it and deny ignorance of it the better.

Originally posted by soficrow

I just have to say it again.

Anyone living in a democracy has the right and duty to question their government...not just follow blindly. ...We should and must expect truth and accountability from our elected officials.

Questioning government is the cornerstone of democracy. It means that yes, you love your country.


Great thread Dad. Keep up the good work.

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Merci, soficrow. And yes, Dad, great thread. Lots of wonderful participation as a result.

Thumbs up to all!

Sofi and Always Learning,

Thank you guys for the props. Mucho appreciation

vincere7,
Thank you for providing the most thought provoking reply to this thread. After I post this reply, you are getting my last thumbs up for the month from me. I dont agree with everything you said, but you really put thought and heart into your reply, which is alot more than most. Agian, a big.

You have voted vincere7 for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have used all of your votes for this month.

[edit on 1/29/05 by Kidfinger]

Forgive me if I implied anything other that what I meant - sarcasm on that issue. I remember as a kid a history teacher set me straight on the 'anyone can run for president,' platform. He laughed at my innocent quips of peasants running for president. Oddly enough government cheese does not dissuade you that you will not be president one day. Our whole culture lives in a cinderella fantasy and our history books teach our children lies from kindergarten. The very fact that our nation was forged on the greatest act of genocide in history seems to be missing from the minds of nearly every American. That is another topic though along with current patriotism. Where does your allegiance lay? God? Flag? President? The America of truth and liberty is a dream that has passed. What we have now is reality.

Thanks Kidfinger and I hope the family is doing well - valere iubere

vincere7 got a way above from me as well. thanks again.

Originally posted by vincere7
Thanks Kidfinger and I hope the family is doing well - valere iubere

Doing well, thank you for asking

And your quite welcome. It is refreshing to see a post with the amount of thought that was put into yours.

Thanks to you as well Always learning. Hope you are ready for the Detroit Alumni butt whopping Febuary 12th. The Red Wings and the Maple Leafs on the ice finally!

I had heard they were in talks...so finally something came of it. We'll just see who woops whose butt ;-) but I have visions of Detroit scampering off crying like little girls...

Will be fun to finally see a game...although I'm not the biggest fan around. I really only care when its the playoffs...especially if there's a Canuck team involved.

Hehe yeah we'll see what happens. I'm just glad a game is actually being played. This is just the Alumni but better than nothin.

Got to pull this back on topic.

I found an article that has a very interesting paragraph in it.

Presidential statements, particularly on matters of national security, are held to an expectation of the highest standard of truthfulness. A president cannot stretch, twist or distort facts and get away with it. President Lyndon Johnson's distortions of the truth about Vietnam forced him to stand down from reelection. President Richard Nixon's false statements about Watergate forced his resignation.

Nixon was FORCED to resign. The Watergate scandle amounted to a couple of bugs and a bunch of casset tapes. Bush has lied to us about the murder of thousands of people and the American public has no power in which to force him out of office. There is more evidence that Bush has lied about this debacle than Nixon had agianst him, so why cant we get this schmuck out of office? Why do people support this liar?

hnn.us...

You are right when you say they are no threat to us. They never were. And we all know what kind of an arse he is.

Whatever dude,,,, they proved after 911 that Sadaam was the main financer of the attacks on America. We've known for years that he was a major threat and yet people like Clinton were too concerned with things like sex and lying about it to care. Clinton had the chance on several occasions to get Bin Laden, and never attempted it. As a matter of fact he demanded the release from US custody several of the people responsible for the attacks on 911. He demanded the release after they were arrested for murder. Lets not even get on the subject of how Kerry's wife contributes millions to the Tides foundation, which supports radical Islamic groups.
Bush is our President and people need to stand behind him. You probably don't think there was enough evidence to go into Afganistan either huh?

Originally posted by deesw
Whatever dude,,,, they proved after 911 that Sadaam was the main financer of the attacks on America.

Kidfinger - this is why Bush will never be called to account. The misinformation and ignorance of the majority of republican supporters who turn their eyes away from the truth in favour of lies, or worse still never heard it in the first place because they only listen to Fox News.

Makes one want to cry, seriously is does.



[edit on 30/1/05 by AlwaysLearning]

Kidfinger - this is why Bush will never be called to account. The misinformation and ignorance of the majority of republican supporters who turn their eyes away from the truth in favour of lies, or worse still never heard it in the first place because they only listen to Fox News.

I am not kidfinger,,,, and what is wrong with Foxnews. They give the news that is not tainted by liberal news agencies.

Deesw

Find out what REAL conservatives think at www.thepowerhour.com...

Originally posted by deesw



Whatever dude,,,, they proved after 911 that Sadaam was the main financer of the attacks on America.

You are misinformed or you are falsifying the truth just as Bush has done. This has NEVER been proven. There have never been a single link to Osama and Saddam. Bush, the person you are defending, has come out and said as much.

Bush is our President and people need to stand behind him. You probably don't think there was enough evidence to go into Afganistan either huh?

Actually, if you had bothered to read the entire thread, you would have realized that I think we should have put all the resources, money, troops, and support from Iraq, into Afghanistan and finished the job that Bush wouldnt do. If we had done this, instead of quitting a job half finished, I.E. no Bin Laden, we wouldnt be having this conversation. Bush screwed up, and he lied to us. Research your facts next time.

Do we need a proof to know that Bush lied? If you have eyes, ears and half a brain, it's obvious.

Originally posted by Indigo_Child
Do we need a proof to know that Bush lied? If you have eyes, ears and half a brain, it's obvious.

It must not be that obvious. There are quite a few people here who think the man dosn't sin.