Trump: The USAF, F-22,F-35 Vs 6th Gen.

a reply to: Zaphod58

Thanks for the clarification on 'dominance' vs 'supremacy'.

I respect your opinion. I still can't get rid of the view that we can incorporate new technology into a partially paid for development of the F-22, create a longer window to the need of an outright 6th gen., and use the monies not spent to fix the long list of support issues you know so well.

If I'm wrong, I'm wrong.

Zaph don't you think we will see an enhanced F-22 version taking the air dominance role for the futur, with new engine and more long range like the past FB-22 project ?

Guys, don't worry. Trump is bullish on defense - he just doesn't want ridiculous numbers like $500,000 commodes on long distant aircraft. We will se
e how he handles defense - My take is that he just wants a good deal and not to get farked up the rear on the high tech aerospace deals. Signal sending and that is all...

a reply to: intelgurl

The only thing I'm worried about us getting out of this godawful mess we've allowed our aviation branches to get into. It's going to take both money and time to fix, and it's gonna hurt.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: intelgurl

The only thing I'm worried about us getting out of this godawful mess we've allowed our aviation branches to get into. It's going to take both money and time to fix, and it's gonna hurt.

Likely there is more than one way to go about it. Perhaps they do go with 6th Gen. development combined with rapid and full upgrades in the current F-22 fleet.

originally posted by: Blackfinger
Its shaken the stock market enough for shares to dive in various aircraft manufacturers..Its what happens when politicians mouth off about processes they dont understand.

Trump isn't a Politian and the rest of us 'understand' is that the guys that do 'understand' have messed it up big time. MIC, USAF AND the politicians.

a reply to: intelgurl
I hope you are right , and expect we will see soon a new air dominance Platform going to life.

The cost of military items is stupidly insane. If I were POTUS I would put real bean counters looking at itemized cost. As soon as I was told each helmet for each pilot of the F-35 was going to cost 1/2 million I think I would have told them something they would not have wanted to hear. MIC has forever just told the government what stuff would cost and why... 500$ hammer and 700$ toilet seats were approved with a nod and a wink.. Let us all hope those days are over and we start getting more "BANG" for our buck.

Aviation in general is weighed down by government regulations. A certified thermal couple (several years ago) was 129$ yet the same exact device made by the same company was 17.95$ ... The only difference with the 17.95$ couple was it did not have an aircraft serial number..

I hope everything in the new government is looked at from a business stand point and the fraud and waste to include onerous regulations and departments are trimmed or done away with.
Well one can wish ....

a reply to: 727Sky

They're in for a pretty rude awakening. Yes, there is some wiggle room in costs of some things, but there's surprisingly little. Boeing was right in that they would take a loss on the VC-25 replacement. They spent billions out of their own pocket to develop the 787.

originally posted by: 727Sky
The cost of military items is stupidly insane. If I were POTUS I would put real bean counters looking at itemized cost. As soon as I was told each helmet for each pilot of the F-35 was going to cost 1/2 million I think I would have told them something they would not have wanted to hear.

Do you know what's in that helmet?

The 400K is not the helmet, it's the helmet, its stunningly advanced displays, its sensors, and the entire flight-certified computer system that it plugs into.

Good decisions by the pilot are worth everything. If this helps them make optimal decisions it's worth it for one mission.

Well if this doesn't qualify as an "Oh crap" I don't know what does.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

And a week later, it's announced that LRIP 9 prices dropped between 1.8 and 5% for the A and B models.

The A model cost is down 60% from the first batch, and 5.5% from LRIP 8. The cost currently stands at $102.1M per aircraft.

The F-35B is down 1.8% from LRIP 8, to $131.6M.

The C actually went up 2.5% to $132.2M, but the Navy cut their buy to 2 aircraft from 4.

breakingdefense.com...

a reply to: Zaphod58
What Navy is playng with the F-35 ? only 2 its ridiculous. In fact sometimes its possible thinking that the F-35 program was a mistake and instead build more F-22 and jumping in the 6th gen was the right decision , is it possible that the F-35 program can be reduce or simply canceled ?

a reply to: darksidius

No. Even with the total planned buy they're planning to fly existing F-15s to at least 2040. By then they'll be in secondary roles and should have less stress on the airframes, but if they kill or cut the F-35 drastically, more airframes will be required, which means we'll need more aircraft to do the same mission at a much higher risk/loss rate.

The Navy isn't planning IOC until what's planned to be the final software version is fielded. They're buying the requisite number of aircraft to be able to declare IOC, then will add numbers. It frees up budget for existing aircraft and to but interim aircraft to get their oldest aircraft out of the fleet.

a reply to: [post=21664315]Zaphod58[/post
Do you think the F-35 will become a best seller for the futur ? I hope the futur air dominance program don't reborn the same problem we saw on the F-35, USAF have great patience with this program , and in fact the same plane for the 3 army was not a real so good idea when we saw the lot of problem on the F-35.

a reply to: darksidius

Have you read the latest reports? It's already out performing everything else flying, including the F-22.

a reply to: Zaphod58

And it's already out sold everything else in the air. 2600+ air frames on the docket already and more surely on the way. It will produce more aircraft than any project has since the F-16.. That's going to make it ridiculously cheap in the long run.

a reply to: Zaphod58
Out performing the F-22 ? Sorry but I doubt about it , the F-22 kinematic performance are realy a lot over the F-35 and don't be so confident about just the electronic capacity and stealth of the F-35 . Very dangerous plane arrive for the futur , the Pak Fa seam to be a futur beast to beat .

a reply to: darksidius

A single F-35 pulls in 3-4 times the information that a single F-22 pulls in, if not more. Yes, I know all about how the F-22 is the greatest airplane to fly since ever, but there's a hell of a lot more to warfare than being stealthy and maneuverable.

They're already developing tactics pairing F-35s and F-22s, because of the picture you can get with an F-35. As for kinematic performance, the F-35 is wildly underestimated. Yes the F-22 can do things it can't, it was designed that way. The F-22 will eventually get into a WVR fight. In an F-35 if you are forced to go go air to air, it's because you screwed up. The only time they should be air to air is when they planned it.

The T-50 is a decent first stealth attempt, but isn't the Oh my god plane Russian sources make it out to be. They have their own serious issues, one being they can't afford them.

a reply to: Zaphod58
Ok for that and surely some classified capacity we don't know about like each plane. For the kinematic performance its possible to be underestimated , because the enormous size of the engine when we look the Platform say to me that the public performance and the real war performance are not the same