Standing Rock, The issues, Unfortunate Facts

Let me start by saying I'm a supporter and have been for a long time. On Rezloopers threads one poster whose name I forget but whose avatar sticks out has persistently asked for "just the facts". Over the last several months it's bothered me that neither I or anyone else could concisely answer him.

Long story shorter,
I went digging.

And here is where it gets unfortunate.
Amidst all the rhetoric tossed back and forth and the ensuing drama of legitimate law enforcement actions it turns out Standing Rock has refused from day one to consult with any agency involved in the permitting process. Despite repeated invitations and notifications. Other Tribal Nations did however.

More to the point Standing Rock is currently in the process of upgrading their water infrastructure and moving their water intake downstream 113 miles from Ft Yates to Mobridge SD. The Ft Yates water intake is slated to be shut down in 2017 and has been for some time.

This site is about denying ignorance and as stunned as I am about finding out this issue was MUCH more convoluted than I'd reckoned on I'm posting the info anyways because I backtracked some of the source material used and found it valid.

Scott Gates only posted the article in it's entirety on FB. It's been excerpted in other places however.
www.facebook.com...

www.usbr.gov...

Let me finish by saying I'd wished I'd never gone googling.

That seems all well and good.

I just have an issue that a corporation who can well afford their own security detail, yet would enlist a platoon of militarized police to do their bidding?

I don't like seeing my taxes squandered away like that.

a reply to: loveguy

Thank You for reading and I agree.
One of the problems being it wouldn't much matter if it's a energy company or the Audubon Society out there. The Feds have issued a mandate via the Army Corp of Engineer's for a site under their jusristiction (the waterway) so it's up to the Feds to enforce any actions and NOT ANY local agencies.

As taxpayers we were going to pay for it one way or the other.

Here is a link to the courts ruling in favor of the Corp of Engineers. I read it and if I'm reading correctly Standing Rock as a petitioner asked mainly for things that were out of the scope of the Corp to do or provide, which is why they lost.

www.scribd.com...

a reply to: Caver78

I'm also a supporter.

Anything that might impact their land, their water, should never even be "negotiated", in my opinion.

I don't see how they would benefit from it, they'd only even potentially, lose.

a reply to: Caver78

Wow. That is a very detailed, comprehensive overview of the big picture -- thanks. This really stuck out to me:

Then there is the issue at the very HEART of the tribes claims ... the water intake at Fort Yates, just downstream from the pipeline’s crossing of the river (where the pipeline will be buried some 90+ feet below the river). The tribe’s KEY claim is the pipeline threatens what they say is the sole source of water for the reservation - the Fort Yates water intake, which is a few miles downstream from the DAPL river crossing near Cannonball, ND - the site of the protest.

It is very hard though for the water intake at the heart of the tribes claims to be threatened if it does not exist.

Which is a fact - and the tribe full well knows it. The water intake at Fort Yates - the one the tribes says is the primary source of the water for the reservation - is to be shut down in the coming MONTHS.

I would like to hear the tribe's response to this.

But if it is true, then it makes one wonder who is playing what game? The passion and sincerity of the protesters is genuine; but it sure seems they are being played -- by various players.

I guess my main question would be. . .

If the pipeline would have no impact, then why involve the tribes in the first place?

a reply to: Caver78

Thank you for this thread! Digging through the dirt of this story has been almost impossible. I appreciate the work you put into bring out the truth.

Heck, at this point I'd like my tax revenues be put into drilling for water on reservation lands. Ofcourse, chances of finding water may only be certain times of the year, huh?

I haven't been to very many reservations, but the ones I have been to were all in the flood plane...

It's like hey, that's the land we will give you, take it or leave it.

Thanks guys, but I was miserable when I found all this.
I truly am a supporter and keeping up on Native issues over the years I'm always waiting for the "other shoe to drop" cause it usually does. I had hoped for once an issue would be just straightforward. Call me naive.

I recommend Boadicea's thread as it has some more facets of the issue.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

The tribal Chairman David Archambault II stands by his assertion that any pipeline across the Missouri is a danger to his and others downstream drinking water. So that answers DC Cowboy. He's right, all pipelines will fail eventually. Plus the fact no company yet has been able to completely remediate after any spill. Anywhere, ever.

As to who's playing who?

Going to say this whole thing spiraled past anything anyone could have expected as a water protest, an environmental action, a statement on indigenous rights, whatever it's been labeled as....it just snowballed.

a reply to: loveguy

In general it's worse than that, we gave them land we deemed worthless then we found out it was chock full of minerals and resources we wanted to have and it's been "game on" ever since.

Also found that Red Warrior Camp at Standing Rock has been asked to leave by the Tribal Council.
The Nation has been uncomfortable with their more militant stance.

www.kfyrtv.com...

If you google it there are multiple sources. It's a testament to the Nation they are cognizant of problems from within the protest and are taking action.

At the time, Frank Archambault, a member of the camp security team at the main Oceti Sakowin Camp where hundreds and sometimes thousands of mostly Native American pipeline opponents have been camping since August, told Forum News Service that tribal elders had asked them to “get a grip” on destructive activity that could overshadow the peaceful and prayerful protest.

“We are not condoning anything like that,” said Archambault, a cousin of Standing Rock Sioux Tribe Chairman Dave Archambault II. “We are trying to get a hold of the radicals and get them dismissed.”

Hall had also condemned the vandalism of Dakota Access construction equipment during protest actions.

redpowermedia.wordpress.com...
www.washingtontimes.com...

www.nativesunnews.today...

a reply to: Caver78

See that, and the blue faces told us they were savages...

originally posted by: Boadicea
a reply to: Caver78
But if it is true, then it makes one wonder who is playing what game? The passion and sincerity of the protesters is genuine; but it sure seems they are being played -- by various players.

Agree. Shortly after this broke on the national news, and gained steam on social media, I clicked through a crowd funding link to read more. Since the news stories indicated the project received due process of the law, I figured a crowd funding campaign would provide verbiage on the human side of the debate. The campaign was already up to $600K in donations. I was gob-smacked. Big money. Fast.

A week later, I tried to find it again to see what amount had been donated. It was gone. I checked 3-4 other crowd funding platforms because I knew the original was not on GFM, but one of the other sites. Aside from seeing numerous campaigns for winter tents, food for the dogs, etc., I could not re-locate the original campaign. Big money. Fast. Gone.

Someone has gobs of money behind the movement but I cannot seem to find anything about tribal appeals, etc.

Back in 1978 the Bureau of Land Management ask tribes in the US to map the sacred lands and sacred sites for there tribes.
This was so the BLM could protect these sites.
and plan projects around these sites and not damage them.

Now these tribes are claiming any area they please that they never listed on the BLM maps.

And the US government is ignoring these new bogus sites.

a reply to: EightAhoy

Again, IIRC the $600,000 raised was dedicated to the legal filing for a federal injunction back in September and used to bail out any and all protestors plus court costs of any who were arrested. Over the past several months I would assume they burned thu that fairly fast.

The allegations that the Tribal Chairman's gas station is doing more business technically may be accurate, you can't overlook the fact that the police blockage had kept protestors from being able conveniently get to Mandan or Bismarck
(35 miles one way) for provisions. It's one of those catch-22 deals.

a reply to: ANNED

Have you bothered to read the article?,regardless it was tribal land for years,no question about it,how is that inventing new land? baseless remark

Thanks for sharing and not to be the thread killer of possible well needed info: However, can one be really sure the info was not shared by someone who has invested interest with the pipeline?

That should be looked more into as well.

What is remarkable is that in 2015, across the entire 200,000+ miles of oil pipeline’s, and nearly 16 billion barrels of oil delivered, there were a total of just 11 spills that were 500 barrels or larger.

He did share, in support, the above on his Facebook.

a reply to: Oldtimer2

I think that the point was that there have been claims that this is sacred ground, but until now (according to the comment, not me) was not listed as such on any official documentation provided to the gubmint.

originally posted by: ANNED
Back in 1978 the Bureau of Land Management ask tribes in the US to map the sacred lands and sacred sites for there tribes.
This was so the BLM could protect these sites.
and plan projects around these sites and not damage them.

Now these tribes are claiming any area they please that they never listed on the BLM maps.

And the US government is ignoring these new bogus sites.

Believe it or not that sounds familiar to me!
this will require more "google-fu" LOL!

It's also possible not all sites were discussed with the BLM. Some things were deemed too important to discuss with "outsiders" and just weren't. It was a very different time/era back then.

a reply to: Caver78

I sincerely believe that the issue of Treaties & desecration of sacred ground is the Water Protector's way of grasping for every defense they can to hold this off until they can at least force an Environmental Impact Study which in my opinion is not too much to ask and would shed quite a bit more light on the bigger picture. In my opinion the Sioux tribe is desperate to prevent this environmental area they feel responsible for, from being raped, and this is where their determination comes from. I don't know everything but I especially don't know how anyone could argue that these pipelines, as well as fracking are just catastrophe's waiting to happen 100% of the time. I doubt if it weren't for all of the numerous explosions, leaks and fracking horror stories reported in recent years, and the freelance journalist or drone pilots to show what is going on and get video and photographic proof as it is happening, we might never have heard about it at all. These pipelines are being protested in other States not just in N.D.

This is a Multinational Corporation that seems hell bent on drilling under water that is supplying millions of people drinking water, and with China involved and us exporting oil to them it makes me suspicious as to how easily ALL the water for almost all of the U.S. could be jeopardized, if you think about it. I may actually be thinking about it too hard actually. Honestly the whole situation frustrates me, especially when there is a precedent being set which a lot of people are watching in regards to militarized police and who is really running this country and whether our rights and lives matter, or is the real Leadership in Washington these Multinational Corporations? WE should never see some of the violence I've actually watched Live Streamed from Standing Rock after about 10:00 p.m. at night all the way into the early morning hours. Pretty brutal and heartless things to do to peaceful protestors who are basically having a "sit in" on lands they've lived on for a very long time. Regarding the land previously designated as sacred or where the burial sites are may not be that black & white if you think about the history in that area and the fact there have been massacres there, those are Mass graves for their people that were never marked because they never received a proper burial.

Bottom line to me is that we don't know where the next drilling site will be, but if it were our land that was about to be fracked or a pipeline drilled through. I don't see the kind of Greed that exists within a major corporation like this one ever stopping until there is nothing left, and if they don't care that they are destroying this planet and killing people, then they probably will never stop wanting more and more money which means they will need more land. There is a site which is just full of video and information from a whistleblower that is currently supporting the Standing Rock Water Protectors, and he has 1st hand knowledge of what goes on with these Big Oil companies after working for one, as well as the contractor hired to clean up after their pipe exploded and leaked tons of oil. He also has interviews with people directly affected by what these companies are doing, practically all over the world. Helppa.org

The really disgusting part is how there is so much Environmental racism, and if there is an underlying issue in the Standing Rock situation it would definitely be the authorities do not seem to care for the Native Americans at all & these Companies seem to have placed these dangers in so many minority zip codes here in the U.S.