Secession of the States?

a reply to: Freeborn

As a Libertarian I love the idea of less Government and more regional authority. I think it would be good for everyone to be able to rule themselves instead of some corrupt city on the East Coast.

Also, I doubt my state is going to go over to Iraq and start shooting people where somehow the Feds get a pass on their endless wars and meddling with us and around the world.

a reply to: Freeborn

You could fit every liberal/progressive on the west coast. Let them secede, I've been all for it for a decade now. Let Hillary Clinton run the west coast and let's see who fares better.

a reply to: new_here

Agreed. California would likely fall into the ocean if their federal funds were cut off (jk).
Texas also has a secession provision in their constitution as well as the ability to separate into three states.
So it could go either way in Texas: exit the Union or get 4 more Senators and 2 more stars on the US flag.

ganjoa

California would have to learn how to stop spending money it doesn't have if it ever left the federal teat so...no, they won't leave.

I only mentioned California as an example.

As I understand it most of the north eastern states and cities supported Clinton and feelings against Trump are running high in places.

At present the general consensus almost unanimously believes there is little chance that this election will lead to any secession of the states.
Personally, I wouldn't be surprised if there was a surge in support for such a thing but its highly unlikely to happen.
That's not to say it won't happen in the future.

People elsewhere in the world have had enough of dictatorial, bloated and corrupt entities like central governments and there is an upswell in support for devolved power.
I see no reason why the same can't happen in the USA.

But that's a discussion for another time and place.
I was simply trying to gauge the level of division between the pro and anti Trump supporters and how any anti Trump sentiment may manifest itself.

Secession of any of the states would have massive global implications.

a reply to: Freeborn

California always strongly votes Democrat.
Are they going to threaten to secede every time they don't get their way?
So, we must always have a Dem president, or they are out?
If they feel that way, then they should go for it!
At least the US will not have to be responsible to bail them out when the big one takes them out.

There seems to be an important thing overlooked here.

Trump is the first president I have seen in a long time who actually seems to get the idea regarding what the federal government should do and what the states should do. His policies detail certain things should be handled by the states.He wants to put regulation of many things back in the hands of the states.

It's very close to Libertarian values regarding the reduction of Federal authority and regulation.
That is one of the things I like about him.

So, the states like California should be happy. They can make specific laws, and as long as it is not unconstitutional and does not hurt other states, I don't think Trump will care.

originally posted by: sputniksteve
a reply to: Freeborn

No.

If the racists didn't Secede when Obama was elected, I highly doubt California is going to Secede. Could you imagine what kind of issues they would have financially without the support of the federal Government? It would be hilarious. I would actually love to see it, only because I nor my family live there.

True, but they didn't have a reason to secede when obama was elected, they got what they wanted.

I think California will eventually secede but it will be due to a big earthquake reply to: Freeborn

a reply to: Fowlerstoad

America should move to states rights, then everyone can move to a state the best fits their wants/needs. Feds can remain involved in things like civil rights and military.

originally posted by: LSU0408
a reply to: Fowlerstoad

America should move to states rights, then everyone can move to a state the best fits their wants/needs. Feds can remain involved in things like civil rights and military.

That was how our forefathers intended the states to work.

Certain things should be federal, like national defense, international trade agreements, treaties etc. And the Federal government should be the decision maker in certain things, such as ensuring that state rules do not violate the constitution or hurt other states.

As I said, Trump's priorities seem to be all about the things that should be Federal.

a reply to: Freeborn

Interesting question.

I tend to believe history repeats itself and there is a pattern to this. To get an idea of how this will go, you should take a look at the 1960's. This is in fact nothing new.

I think a healing phase is in our future, but there will be some pain in the process. The bigotry on both sides is on the surface now where it can be seen and yes I mean on both sides. Like an abscess it can't heal until it breaks the surface and I think that's a reasonable analogy.

No I highly doubt secession will be anything more than a rallying cry by fanatics and in the past it's also never been any more than that.

I'm certain we get a wrong impression of how most of European's are, based on the actions of a small number of people with big mouths and I have no doubt viewing this from your country, you are getting a very wrong impression of how most of us are. These overly melodramatic sore looser's are present after every election and the squeakiest wheel gets all the media's attention. For the most part, today is just another day for the vast majority of Americans who peacefully accept the election results and go back to providing for themselves and hoping for a positive future.

a reply to: LSU0408

At first I was like WTF is this dude talking about? You know what I meant though obviously. Probably a better way to phrase that would just have been if it didn't happen when Obama was elected and people "threatened" it then it won't happen now.

I guarantee there are people in California right now suggesting it for real while sitting on their $5m 2 bedroom beach homes. Meanwhile the state comptroller is looking at them like they are retarded.

Didn't the state or at least some counties have to declare bankruptcy in the last few years?

a reply to: BlueAjah

Just goes to show - it has always been my understanding that's how things actually were in the USA.

Am I correct in saying that whilst Europe - thankfully soon to be minus the UK - is moving rapidly towards almost total control from the central government in Brussels the USA is trying to re-establish statehood rights?

Is Trump in favour of placing more power in the central government or has he a got a more libertarian attitude?

originally posted by: BlueAjah

originally posted by: LSU0408
a reply to: Fowlerstoad

America should move to states rights, then everyone can move to a state the best fits their wants/needs. Feds can remain involved in things like civil rights and military.

That was how our forefathers intended the states to work.

Certain things should be federal, like national defense, international trade agreements, treaties etc. And the Federal government should be the decision maker in certain things, such as ensuring that state rules do not violate the constitution or hurt other states.

As I said, Trump's priorities seem to be all about the things that should be Federal.

Exactly... Let the feds handle things like that while the states let their residents vote for everything else.

originally posted by: sputniksteve
a reply to: LSU0408

At first I was like WTF is this dude talking about? You know what I meant though obviously. Probably a better way to phrase that would just have been if it didn't happen when Obama was elected and people "threatened" it then it won't happen now.

I guarantee there are people in California right now suggesting it for real while sitting on their $5m 2 bedroom beach homes. Meanwhile the state comptroller is looking at them like they are retarded.

Didn't the state or at least some counties have to declare bankruptcy in the last few years?

I've been all for secession OR states rights for a long time... I blame it on my direct ancestors, soldiers in the Revolutionary War and Confederacy... States rights would be an easy task, while secession would be too difficult and only push our divide further apart.

This is from 2012:

First Vallejo, then Stockton, then Mammoth Lakes, and now San Bernardino and soon possibly Compton. As Orange County Supervisor John Moorlach told Bloomberg News, the bankruptcy dominoes are starting to fall. One California city after another—following a decade-long spree of ramping up public-employee pay and pension benefits, as well as redevelopment debt—are becoming insolvent.

reason.com...

Cali democrats will tell you they never filed bankruptcy though.

Are tiny areas of city dwelling ghettos going to cede from the union? They would all vacate their lands within three days of no semi trailers delivering them food, no foodstamps to buy food as immigrants into the real United States, and no electricity to recharge their cellphones to bitch to each other about it, oh wait their free government phone service would have been canceled anyways.

Although I would most likely move to the first state that opted for independence, I dont think it is needed. To put it simply....Americans has evolved into 2 very different ideology's. Left/Right Red/Blue...... Fred/Ethal call it watch ya want....The only thing we do is take turns making each other miserable. Waste a lot of money and resources doing it.
Liberals dont have a haven to run to, conservatives dont have a haven to run to......why, because the federal government has perverted their role and the states whore'd away their sovereignty.

"Each state a nation unto itself"...... Right now their should be a state that is Bernie Sanders dream....with laws and regulations for its citizens and businesses that they make for themselves. And people that believe in Bernie's vision should not have to do anything more than look at a map and see what states best fit their beliefs and values....... But Bernie and the millions of people who think like Bernie, they dont have any place to go and neither do we.
We're insisting on living with each other like a couple in a bad marriage....despising everything that the other person says and does.

I think, as Americans, we do love each other. We prove that everyday in our daily lives. But I think if we started to find ways for like minded people to dwell together and govern themselves in a way they choose.... Americans will start to like each other as well

a reply to: Freeborn

Why this election and not the last?

The heartland and the deep south didn't feel as strongly about the election of Obama? I think we did. We did not want him as our president, but we got him and while we complained and dissented, we did not end up seceding.

I think this panic is extremely premature and that it's a good thing this is the crowd that abhors gun ownership.

a reply to: Zimnydran

I disagree vehemently... I think most Americans are middle of the road, the only difference is how do you reach the intended destination..

OT: If they did leave... one they have zero shot of resisting forced re-integration, cause lets face it... we had this tiff before and the Federal Govt made it perfectly clear there is no getting out... Two: They cant afford to leave, IF they could spend within their means sure... maybe... but I doubt it. The fact they cant come within a country mile of a balanced budget they wouldn't last 90 days before begging for some of the Govt sugar..