My Silence. Politics. 2016. Trump. Hillary. I Need A Freaking Drink

Hello again ATS!

Some of you will open this thread, see the Daryl Dixon avatar and my ATS username and ( for better or for worse ) recognize me and have some level of familiarity with my general political ideas. Others, however, might not as I've been uncharacteristically ( mostly ) quiet for a considerable period of time now. I've been fine and my life is going well... My absence hasn't been an indicator of financial issues, health problems or anything like that.

Frankly put - the 2016 US Presidential election has been a s#*t show of such epic proportions that half of the time I honestly can't tell if I'm petrified, confused, shocked, outraged, possibly in a coma and hallucinating the entire damned thing... or just have grown old enough that I'm dead inside and can no longer emotionally or intellectually connect with anything at all.

I've also entertained the passing notion that maybe I stroked out or had an embolism, died and am now wandering through the pits of Hell. Say what you will - but look around... it's not a totally insane thought.

Whatever the case, what I do know is this: I'm numb. I'm done. I'm avoiding discourse and debate because my the only thing that my mind can manage to come up - my singular thought on the issue ( both sides ) is: GOOD GOD. WHAT THE RUDDY HELL IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE? HOW? WHY? WHAT? AAARRRGGGHHH.

Obviously such hysterics don't add anything to the conversation - so I do my best to abstain... Even though doing so absolutely guts me.

I, you see - in this regard - am a man without a country. A bystander caught in the midst of somebody elses war. I can't turn to my respected friends on my right and ask them how in the Hell they can support the absolute travesty known as Donald Trump - because doing so only results in them accusing me of being a Hillary supporter. I can't turn to my friends on the left and ask them how in the name of God they can support the unfathomably self-interested and corrupt pantsuit wearing harpy named Hillary - because doing so causes them to conclude that I must be a stealth Trump supporter.

All the while I sit here thinking "THESE TWO are the BEST we could do??? Really? OK then. Well... It's been a grand experiment, hasn't it... Accomplished some really good stuff... We had a solid 240 year run I guess... Wow... Can't believe it all went down the crapper that fast... What to do... What to do...

And here is the most frustrating part of this past year... I really, really want to have a conversation about just how horrible I think Hillary is - and why - But I can't. I've tried. It never works out. When I do seek out these debates or conversations one of two things happen. I either get:

HOW CAN YOU SAY THAT. HELLO. DONALD TRUMP!!! DO YOU WANT TO LIVE IN A WORLD WHERE THAT IDIOT IS THE MOST POWERFUL MAN ON EARTH???

Or:

BENGHAZI!!! SHE'S DEMON POSSESSED! SHE'S GOT PARKINSONS! EPILEPSY! SHE'S A LESBIAN ROBOT! A LESBIAN ROBOT SLAVE TO HER KENYAN MULSIM OVERLORD! EPILEPTIC BENGHAZI LESBIAN ROBOT MUSLIM SLAVE YOU FOOL!!!"

At first I was patient with both sides of the argument...

"No, I don't want a Trump Presidency. In fact just the reality that I have to qualify my position by using the words "Trump" and "Presidency" in the same sentence actually makes me fear for the future of mankind..." and "Look. They've investigated Benghazi, endlessly. I don't care about her emails - there are already verifiable ways to ascertain and document exactly why she should not be President. REAL reasons. ACTUAL, NOT FICTIONAL things. Things like pay to play, her political promiscuity with values and with questionable regimes and simply the fact that she seems to feel entitled to the office. She's got problems. A lot of problems."

At first I meticulously went through the motions of making cogent arguments from a well reasoned position - all sourced and based upon indisputable facts.

That lasted about two days. In those two days I learned that Trump supporters will only accept "facts" from Michael Savage or Wordpress blogs with names like IIIPATRIOTCHRISTIANINFIDELTRUTHCRUSADE!!!! ( The all caps seems to be mandatory - though I am admittedly unsure of the rules of naming such sites - a position made worse by the fact that one of the worst is simply named Shoebat ).

I also learned that Hillary supporters will simply stick with the "BUT TRUMP' argument. No matter what. Being that I am a progressive liberal I am probably shielded from some of the other tactics often referenced by others. I have yet to be called "racist" or "sexist" - though I'm told that it's not an uncommon tactic.

This is the reality that has led me to ranting today. Not because Trump is an idiot. Not because Hillary will quite possibly be seen as this generations Boss Tweed. But because the fact of the matter is reality no longer even applies to any of this. We aren't even in a situation where the tail is wagging the dog. The tail is now wagging the entire freaking animal shelter. We are no longer simply an uninformed society - we're a completely misinformed society - which is infinitely worse.

Look... if I know nothing about gravity - I still understand that the apple leaves my hand and hits the ground. The fact that I don't know why doesn't alter the base concept. Just from observation I can deduce that since the apple falls, I probably shouldn't go jumping off of skyscrapers - lest I become the apple. BUT if I am told the wrong thing? If I'm told that the entire universe shifts upward to MEET the apple when I let it go? Well then... I'm probably not going to enjoy my first trip to a rooftop after I decide to take the quick way down... expecting the universe to shift for me too.

It's an awkward analogy - but it works. And so does propaganda... As anyone with eyes can currently, plainly see.

Now I'll close this rant so that I can fetal ball and possibly have rum for breakfast... and I'll leave a few links that might come in handy for those who aren't as damaged as I and are still in the fray...

Dunning-Kruger Effect

Hanlon's Razor

Information Warfare

Edward Bernays

Crowd Manipulation

Political Warfare

Smith-Mundt

The Framers gave us the 2nd to protect our bodies... but they didn't foresee that the real war would be in our own minds.

i finally freaked yesterday so I totally get where you are. I can't discuss this vile situation anymore. There are no positives and I can't find my way home. It's so ugly and depressing that I won't read or entertain any new, breaking info on either candidate-we're long lost and, agree, we had a good run and now it's over. The truth has disappeared for me.
Again, I toll the bells for a revolution; it ain't gonna be pretty-I can hear the crumbling of institutions as I write.
Just pray for the souls who will pay the price for the dissolution of the American way of life as we thought it once was. Pray for our children.
Thanks for the explanation of my numbness, too-I needed that.

a reply to: Hefficide

A very good post.

It's about time we had some refreshing restraint politically. I had no idea this website was so left vs right until recently and it scares me, frankly.

This is supposed to be a bastion from propaganda, a 'safe space' for those who disagree with humanities stupidity (by and large) and a refuge for the 'emotionally dead'. I feel your pain, I too have become emotionally numb to these constant debates, these constant threats of war and never ending political face offs.

What happened to our UFO's and Bigfoot? What about the Pleadians and the hidden codes in the Bible, you know the CONSPIRACY stuff. This is looking more like CNN and FOX everyday....... Starting to think this site is majorly compromised, or has become a victim of the very thing it loaths, ignorance.

a reply to: Hefficide

Heff,

First of all sir, bloody good to see you, and to hear that you are not in some dire circumstance, other of course than the aforementioned "2016 Presidential Clusterbang/Circlejerk/DeathracetothebottomohGodhelpus", and all that it entails.

I am not at all surprised by either your silence on the issue, or indeed by the contents of your eventual utterance on the matter. It is beyond belief that the situation in the States has become so utterly insane, that the two leading candidates are sociopathic, self interested fanatics, which both of them most assuredly are. I must confess, despite being a man of some significant reading, and no small amount of wit, I would be entirely flummoxed as to how to proceed with voting in that election, and I think myself fantastically lucky that I am not American at the moment, for that very reason.

Your analysis of the situation as it stands is entirely on point.

A time is fast approaching, where, owing to the incredible effectiveness of the propaganda involved in the political process at the moment, it will be more of a problem that the few have not accepted the programming, than that the program exists at all. At present, the problem is the propaganda, but eventually it will have consumed everyone to the point where it is those who have not succumbed, who will be considered not just atypical, but threats to national security, by all parties and political entities, no matter how outwardly reasonable. The nightmare fascist future that my grandfathers fought to prevent, will likely as not come about as a result of this election, no matter who wins it, and I believe that preparing ourselves for that would be wise, since the knock on effects of either potential presidency, and a subsequent continuance of the programming of the US population by those who own the country, is unlikely to halt this slide into the moral black hole.

You are not asleep. This is real life. I am so terribly sorry.

originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: Hefficide

Heff,

First of all sir, bloody good to see you, and to hear that you are not in some dire circumstance, other of course than the aforementioned "2016 Presidential Clusterbang/Circlejerk/DeathracetothebottomohGodhelpus", and all that it entails.

I am not at all surprised by either your silence on the issue, or indeed by the contents of your eventual utterance on the matter. It is beyond belief that the situation in the States has become so utterly insane, that the two leading candidates are sociopathic, self interested fanatics, which both of them most assuredly are. I must confess, despite being a man of some significant reading, and no small amount of wit, I would be entirely flummoxed as to how to proceed with voting in that election, and I think myself fantastically lucky that I am not American at the moment, for that very reason.

Your analysis of the situation as it stands is entirely on point.

A time is fast approaching, where, owing to the incredible effectiveness of the propaganda involved in the political process at the moment, it will be more of a problem that the few have not accepted the programming, than that the program exists at all. At present, the problem is the propaganda, but eventually it will have consumed everyone to the point where it is those who have not succumbed, who will be considered not just atypical, but threats to national security, by all parties and political entities, no matter how outwardly reasonable. The nightmare fascist future that my grandfathers fought to prevent, will likely as not come about as a result of this election, no matter who wins it, and I believe that preparing ourselves for that would be wise, since the knock on effects of either potential presidency, and a subsequent continuance of the programming of the US population by those who own the country, is unlikely to halt this slide into the moral black hole.

You are not asleep. This is real life. I am so terribly sorry.

OP said close to what I mention in my thread yet you critize me of my recent thread?

Where I come from we call this being TWO FACED.

For me ..... I don't care what others think about me or my thread unless they are out to kiss everyone's ass and I don't need a person supporting my thread with that "ass kissing" posture.

You will not go far in life with this attitude.

Im really sorry for you USA guys, i realise that the US election will be important for the UK but we've plenty to worry about over here, luckily for us this time its not the terrifying situation the Americans are in at the moment [yet].

This situation seems like its somthing better related to a hostile take over of a corporation, two heavy weights battling it out to rule a private company, using tactics that are childish and highly unprofessional.

Its another of those slug fests thats not about who do you like more, its who do you dislike the least, and thats a just outstandingly depressing way for a country which is a self confessed leader of democracy to show the world how its done. Can you possibly imagine what message this sends out to the stunned world, "yeah get democracy, its the fair way to run a country, just look at us trail blazers, THIS COULD BE YOU".

I also have said very little about the US election because yes, im not an American and I only have a very tiny say - i realise that. But I can certainly share the total 'wtf' factor the American nation has and is facing, its like a bad joke gone on too long.

Id say good luck and best wishes but what im really feeling for you guys is terror and sadness because it seems from over here that theres very little chance of a happy solution. The only thing more shocking than whats going on right now, is that if either of these two candidates ACTUALLY DO a GOOD job, i guess all there is, is time to prey through some freakish luck thats what happens as bleak as things seem.

a reply to: Hefficide

S&F

a reply to: DeathSlayer

No sir, I am afraid you are dead wrong.

You posted a thread in which you stated that you were intent on leaving your country.


Your conclusions are different sir, indicative of entirely different thinking on the subject, and therefore my responses differ accordingly. Perhaps if you had read and correctly comprehended this threads OP, you would understand the distinction between the two.

originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: DeathSlayer

No sir, I am afraid you are dead wrong.

You posted a thread in which you stated that you were intent on leaving your country.


Your conclusions are different sir, indicative of entirely different thinking on the subject, and therefore my responses differ accordingly. Perhaps if you had read and correctly comprehended this threads OP, you would understand the distinction between the two.

Really? Is that what my thread was about? You are no better than Hillary!

Why don't reread the thread with an open mind? My thread is NOT about me leaving the U.S and if that is what you got out of it than no reason discussing my thread with you and your hypocrite answers.

You select and choose sentences to prove your weak point.

Again you are a hypocrite and NOT a sir........

a reply to: Hefficide

It is great to hear from you Heff!

And with quite the eloquent description of where we have found ourselves.

The social engineers have done quite the number this time around. It is as if all things are coalescing into a fevered pitch, the ultimate fulfillment of the Ordo Ab Chao mantra that is attributed to the most inner circle of the esoteric.

There is still a ray of hope in all of this, TPTB have become so desperate that every aspect of the collective conspiracy has been exposed.

Now is the time to discuss the reality of those in the shadows.

It is all being exposed as we speak!

a reply to: elementalgrove

I really appreciate what you stated: That TPTB are exposed and desperate. The reality is still in the shadows-how do we bring it out? That's my question-and my really only feeling of hope in this mess of an election. I truly don't know and 99% don't believe it is possible due to their power. I can always hope with my 1%.

originally posted by: Justso
a reply to: elementalgrove

I really appreciate what you stated: That TPTB are exposed and desperate. The reality is still in the shadows-how do we bring it out? That's my question-and my really only feeling of hope in this mess of an election. I truly don't know and 99% don't believe it is possible due to their power. I can always hope with my 1%.

Maintain that hope my friend.

They have carefully constructed the illusion that they are in complete control. The entire idea of "organizing chaos" reeks of such hubris that it staggers the mind.

I may not know the divine plan at work here, but I do believe that without suffering there could be no compassion, from this simple point of view the lessons being taught in this incarnation are priceless.

All we ultimately can do is apply these lessons to ourselves. The work we do within the microcosm, radiates out and affects the macrocosm.

Speak your truth in your thoughts and actions.

It is how I try to live my life.

I think there's a lot of us in the same train of thought that is keeping us from frequenting/posting on this site as we have. I know I have been unable to deal with every, single post somehow turning into H vs T no matter what subject.

Been mostly just lurking as of late due to the seriousness that appears to be happening regarding possibly WWIII and trying to keep up on that. I mean, we've gone from Defcon 5 to 3 in a week!

However, other than that, I cannot bear to face this reprehensible period of infighting and ridiculousness. If it isn't obvious to people on this site what's happening, then I want no part of it. I certainly do not expect the leaders of this site to get involved and pity what must be an exhausting time to be a moderator on sites like this.

a reply to: Hefficide

I know only too well the feeling. It's as if you took the words right out of my mouth.

The thing is, many of the ATSers which used to make quality posts also jumped in the political mud pit and, to this day, are still busy slinging mud at anything that moves. Just yesterday I logged in ATS. Guess what I see on the front page? The five top threads are political mudpit threads about the dirty laundry of either candidates. Five political mudpit icons, aligned all across my screen. I was almost waiting for cash to come out of my phone and a voice announcing, over a fast rate sound of bells, "And it's a Jackpot!! "

I've became quite silent nowadays, and I post simple stuff, because it seems people don't have the patience or open-minded-ness anymore for more sophisticated stuff.

What is it I'm doing, then, as my american friends are busy hating one another? Well, ladies and gents, I am proud to announce that instead of participating into pointless mud-slinging, I'm taking this opportunity to try and build an over-unity device.

My fellow physicists tell me that it's impossible, but then, I believe it's more probable to succeed than to try and change the mind of people blind with rage.

So this is that. I'm building an over unity device.

a reply to: swanne

Before you can form an opinion about whether this is actually possible you’ll need to understand what it is. Over-unity is most commonly used to describe a machine that is somehow able to output more energy than the amount of energy that is put into it.

I have missed seeing many of the regulars around the boards. I hope that once Nov 8th is behind us; you, along with the others will return. But it is wonderful and amazing to know that you are working on such an amazing project. Who knew that the elections would lead to such progress!!!!

originally posted by: Hefficide
I Need A Freaking Drink

Same. I'm buying.

a reply to: DeathSlayer

First of all, I think it was dead wrong of you to even mention your thread in this one. Thats bloody bad form, and you should know better than to bring your threads issues into this thread without the permission of the OP.

Second of all, you are the one who is allegedly saving up to relinquish your citizenship, and abandon the place. I read your thread very carefully, and I have a very high degree of comprehension where the English language is concerned, so I would put it to you that if I have received the wrong inference from what you wrote, that means you did a poor job of communicating your thoughts clearly.

Once again, this is not the time or the place to discuss this situation, so I would thank you if you would keep your comments on my conduct out of this, totally separate, and very well written thread. If you have a genuine problem, contact a moderator.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

If you are buying make mine a double. what's that booze btw?.
Oh and good to see you heff voice of logic and reason and I really couldn't have said it better myself
Oh add if you die we rrally will riot.

originally posted by: TheKnightofDoom
If you are buying make mine a double. what's that booze btw?.

Baker's bourbon. 107 proof. Good stuff.

Oh and good to see you heff voice of logic and reason and I really couldn't have said it better myself.

I think more people than we suspect feel the exact same way and that Original Post articulated it well.

a reply to: Hefficide
Good to see you again, Heff. I'm glad that all is well with you.

I agree, it's crazy that those two are the best this country can come up with. It's like being a choice of jumping into a wood chipper or setting yourself on fire. The other day I said something about voting for a third party (not that I think voting works, the game is rigged) and the response I got was mind boggling in its stupidity: "Wrong. If you vote for a third party they could lose and Killery could win. Vote trump. He can save this country." That's it, word for word.

I can't wait until this crap show is all over.