How close are you in believing ?

originally posted by: flyingfish

or if the truth hurts, you're doing it wrong.

So you're the truth? And your verdict is that life is meaningless and anyone thinking there is meaning is likened to a puddle thinking that its divot was made especially for it? Do you realize how detrimental of a philosophy this is for any poor soul who listens and accepts what you think to be the truth?

You're breeding hopelessness throughout humankind. There is no benefit that anyone can reap from accepting your view on life which you so arrogantly assume to be true. Even if you are correct, and life is a meaningless accident, what does it matter if everyone else comes to this hypothetical truth? If life is meaningless, so are our opinions of it, so you spreading this doctrine of hopelessness is erroneous even if it is true.

Please do humankind a service and stop.

originally posted by: cooperton

originally posted by: flyingfish

or if the truth hurts, you're doing it wrong.

So you're the truth? And your verdict is that life is meaningless and anyone thinking there is meaning is likened to a puddle thinking that its divot was made especially for it? Do you realize how detrimental of a philosophy this is for any poor soul who listens and accepts what you think to be the truth?

You're breeding hopelessness throughout humankind. There is no benefit that anyone can reap from accepting your view on life which you so arrogantly assume to be true. Even if you are correct, and life is a meaningless accident, what does it matter if everyone else comes to this hypothetical truth? If life is meaningless, so are our opinions of it, so you spreading this doctrine of hopelessness is erroneous even if it is true.

Please do humankind a service and stop.

So ignorance is bliss?

originally posted by: Cypress

So ignorance is bliss?

The road to True Knowledge is not easy, but it is worth it if you come to know the Truth.

How close am I to believing?

originally posted by: cooperton
You're breeding hopelessness throughout humankind. There is no benefit that anyone can reap from accepting your view on life which you so arrogantly assume to be true. Even if you are correct, and life is a meaningless accident, what does it matter if everyone else comes to this hypothetical truth? If life is meaningless, so are our opinions of it, so you spreading this doctrine of hopelessness is erroneous even if it is true.

After reading this, not even remotely close. In fact I'm less inclined to believe than I was before.

Funny hearing a creationist call somebody arrogant for their beliefs, while he promotes his own blind faith as absolute truth and cherry picks whatever he can find in support of it. The pot is definitely calling the kettle black here.

After pages of derailment, how about we get back to the OP?

Did anyone else watch the video series that was posted? If so, what are your thoughts on the presented material and how it may or may not relate to a higher power?

Slayer, I would like to hear your conclusion and discuss it with you.

originally posted by: cooperton

originally posted by: flyingfish

or if the truth hurts, you're doing it wrong.

So you're the truth? And your verdict is that life is meaningless and anyone thinking there is meaning is likened to a puddle thinking that its divot was made especially for it? Do you realize how detrimental of a philosophy this is for any poor soul who listens and accepts what you think to be the truth?

You're breeding hopelessness throughout humankind. There is no benefit that anyone can reap from accepting your view on life which you so arrogantly assume to be true. Even if you are correct, and life is a meaningless accident, what does it matter if everyone else comes to this hypothetical truth? If life is meaningless, so are our opinions of it, so you spreading this doctrine of hopelessness is erroneous even if it is true.

Please do humankind a service and stop.

hopelessness huh? and what exactly are we supposed to be hoping for?

originally posted by: cooperton

originally posted by: flyingfish

or if the truth hurts, you're doing it wrong.

So you're the truth? And your verdict is that life is meaningless and anyone thinking there is meaning is likened to a puddle thinking that its divot was made especially for it? Do you realize how detrimental of a philosophy this is for any poor soul who listens and accepts what you think to be the truth?

You're breeding hopelessness throughout humankind. There is no benefit that anyone can reap from accepting your view on life which you so arrogantly assume to be true. Even if you are correct, and life is a meaningless accident, what does it matter if everyone else comes to this hypothetical truth? If life is meaningless, so are our opinions of it, so you spreading this doctrine of hopelessness is erroneous even if it is true.

Please do humankind a service and stop.

I'm not the truth, the way, or the light. But, most of the time I can spot a lie.
As for the rest of your rant...if believeing in things known to be demonstrably wrong, and then lying about it gives your life meaning, go for it. That's not what I want out of life.
My family gives my life meaning, I don't need to lie to them for it either.

originally posted by: cooperton

originally posted by: flyingfish

or if the truth hurts, you're doing it wrong.

So you're the truth? And your verdict is that life is meaningless and anyone thinking there is meaning is likened to a puddle thinking that its divot was made especially for it? Do you realize how detrimental of a philosophy this is for any poor soul who listens and accepts what you think to be the truth?

You're breeding hopelessness throughout humankind. There is no benefit that anyone can reap from accepting your view on life which you so arrogantly assume to be true. Even if you are correct, and life is a meaningless accident, what does it matter if everyone else comes to this hypothetical truth? If life is meaningless, so are our opinions of it, so you spreading this doctrine of hopelessness is erroneous even if it is true.

Please do humankind a service and stop.

I'm not the truth, the way, or the light. But, most of the time I can spot a lie.
As for the rest of your rant...if believeing in things known to be demonstrably wrong, and then lying about it gives your life meaning, go for it. That's not what I want out of life.
My family gives my life meaning, I don't need to lie to them for it either.

originally posted by: Barcs

Funny hearing a creationist call somebody arrogant for their beliefs, while he promotes his own blind faith as absolute truth and cherry picks whatever he can find in support of it. The pot is definitely calling the kettle black here.

This has nothing to do with my beliefs. Atheism and Nihilism is a poison. I was pointing out the futility of ever publicly endorsing such an opinion: Hypothetically, If no higher purpose exists, then your opinions don't matter and you should save your breath.

How close am I to believing?

After reading this, not even remotely close. In fact I'm less inclined to believe than I was before.

Barcs you've already made up your mind. You took a bio 101 course and stopped there in your understanding of the universe. A truth seeker continues on the path and discards old doctrine that doesn't fit the bigger picture.

originally posted by: flyingfish
if believeing in things known to be demonstrably wrong

which is your opinion. but what if you're wrong and a Higher Truth is right?

My family gives my life meaning, I don't need to lie to them for it either.

I mean no disrespect to you or your family, but according to your beliefs what does it matter? Soon you will enter the endless oblivion hypothesized by atheist ideology and all of your life will be for naught. I know how you feel because I used to believe this - I remember sitting in my bed around the age of 13 thinking that the whole God/higher purpose was a farce and I contemplated my eternity of nothingness after this life. It is a dark road to go down, and I promise you there is meaning to this life for those who seek it.

originally posted by: cooperton
This has nothing to do with my beliefs. Atheism and Nihilism is a poison. I was pointing out the futility of ever publicly endorsing such an opinion: Hypothetically, If no higher purpose exists, then your opinions don't matter and you should save your breath.

I care about what is backed by evidence, I don't care about endorsed public opinions or belief systems. Objective truth is far more important than your slanderous opinion on atheism and having a purpose. You suggest that just because god or a higher purpose does not exist that it MUST mean that nothing matters at all. This opinion is beyond bogus and far more harmful than anybody's personal belief or lack of belief in god.

If none of that supernatural stuff exists (ie spirit, heaven, god, etc), then that means we only have one chance at life, so it matters MUCH MUCH MORE what you do with it. I have meaning and purpose in my life, it just doesn't come from a magical god or deity. It comes from helping other people and doing what I can to be the best person I can be to make the world a better place. Unity is a far greater tool than attacking anybody that doesn't share your personal beliefs and blindly attacking all science that conflicts with your narrow minded view.

Barcs you've already made up your mind. You took a bio 101 course and stopped there in your understanding of the universe. A truth seeker continues on the path and discards old doctrine that doesn't fit the bigger picture.

The difference is you have not taken any biology courses, and you think that your belief system is the ultimate truth regardless of what any scientific knowledge about our planet says. A truth seeker allows the possibility of being wrong about their personal beliefs and ideas when confronted with evidence. You do not allow this and already have made up your conclusion. I would be able to be convinced if evidence of a creator or higher purpose was found. You are not a truth seeker. Your mind is closed to anything outside of biblical creationism.

originally posted by: Barcs
If none of that supernatural stuff exists (ie spirit, heaven, god, etc), then that means we only have one chance at life, so it matters MUCH MUCH MORE what you do with it.

Does it though? It all comes to naught anyway so what's the purpose? Being kind and helping others? Why? Hypothetically, If It all ends in nothingness anyway, I don't see how there could be any purpose in life?

I have meaning and purpose in my life, it just doesn't come from a magical god or deity. Stop pigeonholing anybody who doesn't believe the same as you. It is the ultimate arrogance.

I speak as one who believed such a thing at one point in my life. I contemplated eternal nothingness, and thought it to be my fate when I was an atheist. I am simply expressing the opinion I once had as an atheist; if your particular atheist beliefs vary from my ex-atheist beliefs that's ok. Why would anything matter if it all comes to nothing?

The difference is you have not taken any biology courses,

I took my first Honors Bio course in 9th grade, and then AP in 11th grade. I got a 5/5 on the AP test. I took biology again while studying neuroscience at the university level. It was my studies of the endless intricacies of neural systems that made me realize our brain is way too complex to have been created through the proposed evolutionary mechanisms.

and you think that your belief system is the ultimate truth regardless of what any scientific knowledge about our planet says.

This is erroneous. My initial point was that it is futile to express your opinion if you're an atheist - if all is for naught, then opinion is meaningless (like I said, this was my belief while I was an atheist). I seldom shared my views while I was an atheist, and I am happy that I withheld these opinions during that juvenile period of my life.

A truth seeker allows the possibility of being wrong about their personal beliefs and ideas when confronted with evidence.

I am still open, still learning how this world works. I do not know everything, so it would be silly to not remain open to all possibilities.

a reply to: cooperton

This is erroneous. My initial point was that it is futile to express your opinion if you're an atheist - if all is for naught, then opinion is meaningless (like I said, this was my belief while I was an atheist). I seldom shared my views while I was an atheist, and I am happy that I withheld these opinions during that juvenile period of my life.

you were never really an atheist. and your subtle suggestion for atheists to shut the hell up is probably not going to work. that will not stop the atheists here. they are made of sterner stuff.

originally posted by: TzarChasm

you were never really an atheist.

Yes I was. All throughout high school, and into college for a year or so. My pursuit of knowledge made me realize the naivety of such a belief.

and your subtle suggestion for atheists to shut the hell up is probably not going to work.

I didn't expect it to. I was just pointing out the futility and worthlessness of ever expressing such an opinion. I'm sure some atheists have come to a meaning in life, but this is contradictory to the atheist's belief that there is no higher power.

originally posted by: cooperton

originally posted by: TzarChasm

you were never really an atheist.

Yes I was. All throughout high school, and into college for a year or so. My pursuit of knowledge made me realize the naivety of such a belief.

and your subtle suggestion for atheists to shut the hell up is probably not going to work.

I didn't expect it to. I was just pointing out the futility and worthlessness of ever expressing such an opinion. I'm sure some atheists have come to a meaning in life, but this is contradictory to the atheist's belief that there is no higher power.

speaking of futile opinions... *cough cough*

are you just here to talk down about atheists talking, or do you have something pertinent to add to the discussion? (loosely described as a discussion anyway)

originally posted by: TzarChasm

speaking of futile opinions... *cough cough*

There exists a logical advantage of theism over atheism:


Atheism:

1) if incorrect, but followed diligently, nothing will happen
2) if correct and followed diligently nothing will happen



Theism:

1) if incorrect, but followed diligently, nothing will happen.
2) If correct and followed diligently life will be found


Atheism, regardless of it being true or not, is a dead end. Logically, Why would you lead others to a dead end?

a reply to: cooperton

Oh great, another tedious rehash of Pascal's Wager. I think you genuinely believe that your arguments are novel and compelling.

a reply to: cooperton

All this says is that you should believe to ease your fears. It doesn't speak to the validity of either position though.

a reply to: cooperton

Atheism is ONLY about whether you believe in a god / deity. It has nothing to do with thinking everything is pointless, or not having other beliefs about reality. What matters is that we are here now regardless of how we got here, so it makes sense to make the most of it. Since nobody actually knows whether there is a higher purpose to life, your point is kind of moot.

Atheism, regardless of it being true or not, is a dead end. Logically, Why would you lead others to a dead end?

There is no dead end, life goes on. You are thinking of it very selfishly by suggesting that your immortality matters much more than the human race's future as a whole. You are suggesting that nothing matters, simply because we don't live forever.

It might not matter to a dead individual because he no longer exists, but everything you do matters to the people that are alive and the people that will continue on living. You create life during your life, so even if you don't believe in god, you go on through them. The fact that we are here and creating life that continues to grow and develop over time is enough to make me care. So yes, everything matters, even as an atheist.

Sorry about the edits, I made the post way longer than it had to be the first time. I tend to be too long winded at times.

originally posted by: Barcs
a reply to: cooperton

So if it turns out that there is no god, you really think it's better to lie to people and pretend there is? There is no dead end, life goes on.

Without a higher-being/God, The human race will inevitably die out and everything will have been meaningless.

You are thinking of it very selfishly by suggesting that your immortality matters much more than the human race's future as a whole.

I never said that. I'm only bringing up the pointlessness of atheism.

It might not matter to a dead individual because he no longer exists, but everything you do matters to the people that are alive and the people that will continue on living.

Why would it? Eventually those people will enter non-existence too.

That is a very selfish mentality, I'm sorry.

I am only addressing atheism from a logical perspective.

The fact that we are here and creating life that continues to grow and develop over time is enough to make me care. So yes, everything matters, even as an atheist.

From the atheist perspective, Why would anything matter if every conscious person is doomed to enter eternal nothingness?