Cake at CERN.

Well lets for a moment pretend I work at CERN and found a new particle n.l. the infamous higgsion.
Anyone any idea how much the discovery of such a particle costs ? I mean hey what's the use ? to prove string theory we need a collider as large as the solar system. So will we ever know what's the universe about ?

CERN is like a big moneypit , what's the use of finding a TOE if as all scientists agree our exploration of the universe is limited by the speed of light ?

Yeah I mean we know the 1st second of the universe so big deal ? What can we do with it ? Can we use the higgs bosons to make anti-gravity ? I don't think so. Higgs just evaporates like the money trown at the CERN project.

Can you really blame people that they are thinking that there is more to CERN than meets the eye. All the weird Ritual kind of promofilms make people suspicious. Talking about Parallel universes and than a squirrel comes bites in the cable ??

Really I can't believe that anymore. CERN a diversion that's more likely.

... and also patch the theory with a cake of dark matter with some tetraquarks on top... still waiting for funding cake anyone ?

a reply to: frenchfries

I mean hey what's the use ? to prove string theory we need a collider as large as the solar system. So will we ever know what's the universe about ?

I suspect that these statements are very premature considering we are in our space faring infancy as a race. Imagine if you told someone we were going to go to the moon 100 year ago? The next 200 years will change humanity like no other centuries have.

Even if we discover something useless to us now, the implications that tiny discovery could have might shape the future in ways we can't foresee.

a reply to: BelowLowAnnouncement

Thanks for your input but,

Anyone been to the moon lately ? I think all money to actually go in space just goes to CERN doesn't it ?

The next 200 years will change humanity like no other centuries have.

Look scientist say in unison lightspeed can't be surpassed so I doubt that great things might happen (beside new Iphones) and maybe a trip to mars for the ones with money. 40 years ago some guy said we will have a permanent moonstation look what happened , the same old rockets and not even a man on mars. I doubt it all the great ideas pop up when it's funding time... I hope i'm wrong!

Pretend for a moment that you are a member of an endangered race of animals, living in a zoo.

What is your purpose? Why are you catered for? Maybe you are not even a "nice" race, but something like the Arapaima - no one would pay to come to the zoo to see you, yet you are here. At a zoo. For a horrendous cost each day, as food and environment have to be kept at precise levels, otherwise you die.

Yet, somehow, some people with enough influence thought that it would benefit the world, humanity and everyone and everything else if you are living in that zoo.

Pointless? Maybe to you. But there are others, who do not think like yourself.


Science. Advancement. You might never know, but maybe someday the Higgs-Boson might save your life in a newly invented "Higgs-o-matic-machine to better the lives of some people".

a reply to: frenchfries

Space and CERN are like comparing fishing and bicycle-driving.

In other words, the money comes from completely different sources, goes to completely different targets and has nothing to do with each other.


I am sorry that a new Iphone is something worth looking out for (hint: the next generations of Iphones look boringly like the old ones, even no new features). Are you from a generation which has to be entertained every single second of their lives?

Well, welcome to reality. The world has other things to do than to cater to a single, bored mind.
..
.
Man, this sounds like I am talking to an eight-year old child (I have experience in this). Grow up and build a rocket to Mars or something!

a reply to: frenchfries

The cake is a lie.

originally posted by: Dark Ghost
a reply to: frenchfries

The cake is a lie.

Are you sure?

Have you ever thought that, maybe, the lie is a cake?

a reply to: ManFromEurope

Higgs-o-matic-machine

Well you do have a point ! Assuming this humble Arapaima lives for 3000 years it might see the benifits of the higgs-o-matic. But why not now devoting scientific resources more to tangible things like a trip to mars or the moon (!). Look science says itself stringtheory might be unprovable. Don't get me wrong CERN has had his use but now ? Isn't it time for something else. like REAL spacetravel real space exploration ?

a reply to: Dark Ghost

NO not a lie I can prove it I have eaten it ... You may have the proof of that action to further investigate

a reply to: ManFromEurope

Man, this sounds like I am talking to an eight-year old child (I have experience in this). Grow up and build a rocket to Mars or something!

Now that wasn't nice. gute nacht!

Space and CERN are like comparing fishing and bicycle-driving.

I don't compare I just state that resources are better spend at Space travel!

a reply to: frenchfries

First of all, the particle that made the news was the Higgs Boson, and later the supposed "Heavy Higgs", not the Higgsion you mentioned.

Furthermore, the cost of building and running the experiment is actually really easy to figure out, using another technological marvel, Google search. It's great, you ask it questions, it gives you answers. That does, of course, require you to be conversant enough with the subject matter to spell most of the keywords right, but give it a go! It may prove enlightening.

But let's be realistic, you are not really asking a question here. What you are doing is expressing that you have not got the first bloody clue what any of the science being done there means, what its implications are, or what it might translate to into the future. Let's just say this:

Your standpoint is both unsupportable factually, and shows a distinct lack of imagination.

Why? Let me present to you, the humble atom. When it was discovered that such a thing existed, those outside the fields pertaining to the discovery were very sceptical that a) they existed at all, and b) that there would ever be a use for the information. They have been proven to be dullards, and hilariously mistaken in so many ways that it is not worth counting them, and nuclear sciences permeate many facets of society, from energy production to medicine and so on. Understanding the atom has improved a great deal of things on this planet, many of which do not immediately spring to mind when you think of atomic sciences.

In the same way, the Higgs discovery will not be the end of the chain that led up to it, but is rather part of the first chapter in a new era of human discovery in science. Understanding the Higgs boson, the way it works, why it works, is going to be fundamental in the future. Imagine being able to manipulate the mass of objects, to be able to add or reduce the amount of mass in a given area or object? That would be ASTOUNDINGLY useful if it could be achieved, and we will not know for sure what the possibilities are, until we understand the thing better than we do. Yes, we only just confirmed its existence with any degree of certainty at all, but just because it is new science, does not mean that it has no use and never will. It means that having both a small amount of imagination, and a decent dose of patience, may be required to find the point at which the data becomes ubiquitous and universally useful, as atomic sciences have become.

And you know, what you said about money for space exploration going to CERN is simply wrong. It is false, nonsense. The funding sources for CERN research are TOTALLY different to the funding sources used by NASA, the ESA, or the Chinese and Russian space agencies. I have no idea where you get this notion, but it is total garbage none the less.

Thankfully, this is no longer a world in which most nations lock up their best and brightest in their homes, and prevent them from working on the sciences and technologies of the future. However, dark ages attitudes like the one you have expressed here are utterly unhelpful to this species, even if they are minority opinions. What utter and total nonsense.

a reply to: TrueBrit

What you are doing is expressing that you have not got the first bloody clue what any of the science being done there means, what its implications are, or what it might translate to into the future. Let's just say this:

Really man ? Again the attitude , that isn't nice !

a reply to: TrueBrit

Well hopefully we aren't entering another dark ages. There is an anti-intellectual movement, even seen here on ATS, so maybe in the future things like CERN will be shut down.

a reply to: darkbake

There is an anti-intellectual movement, even seen here on ATS, so maybe in the future things like CERN will be shut down.

Look I'm not anti CERN or anti-intellectual without CERN there would be no HTML. But I'm against investing into a far future while other tangible projects get less funding. Developing EMdrive with maximal effort might be a better choice that discovering another Boson...

a reply to: frenchfries

The two things happen independent of one another!

The funding for one does not in any way prevent or preclude the funding for another! And another thing, with the advent of industrial space flight, as opposed to state sponsored or owned systems and methods, the funding for advanced propulsion will be sourced from entities who have literally no interest in CERN from an economic point of view.

But here's another thing... The discovery of the Higgs boson may, one day, lead to discovery of a method for folding space time, using mass manipulation. That would lead to enormous leaps in propulsion methodology, and will require constant effort from now, until such time as it becomes possible, in order to have any hope at all of coming to pass. The Wright Bros could have waited until manned flight was a thing, and gone about on boats, cars, horses, and the like until then. Tesla could have left the inventing shed alone, until his particular genius had already been surpassed, and Bell could have continued to shout over at his neighbours, rather than inventing a telephone, a thing that most people saw no need for at the time of its invention.

And yet here we are, with planes, a whole host of inventions falsely attributed to Eddison, and even telephones you can walk around with. Those things did not happen because someone was shortsighted, but because someone had vision and drive to make it happen. That vision and drive is more necessary now than it has ever been.

originally posted by: frenchfries
a reply to: darkbake

There is an anti-intellectual movement, even seen here on ATS, so maybe in the future things like CERN will be shut down.

Look I'm not anti CERN or anti-intellectual without CERN there would be no HTML. But I'm against investing into a far future while other tangible projects get less funding. Developing EMdrive with maximal effort might be a better choice that discovering another Boson...

So essentially..."who cares about the future generations....me me me"

I'm not sure if you are aware of this, but we CAN as a scientific community, work on two things at once. In fact...we can work on thousands of things at once. You are looking at this from a very odd perspective. I can't even figure out why you would be so mad about all of this.

We ARE working on getting to Mars and beyond. We are working on cancers and illnesses. We are working on space drives. We are just also working on things at CERN. Not many people can fathom what CERN could potentially awaken. As said may times, history has repeatedly shown us examples of your very behavior in action.

www.forbes.com...

Why would we need a telephone? - 1876
Stop working on alternatin current...it's useless - 1889
There is no chance that satellite communication will do anything - 1961

and so on and so on

Some thought looking at radiation was a stupid idea....now we have XRays and chemotherapy (yes I am aware we also have the hydrogen bomb....but still the point stands

I just don't get the OP at all

a reply to: KyoZero

Not many people can fathom what CERN could potentially awaken. As said may times, history has repeatedly shown us examples of your very behavior in action.

portals

a reply to: TrueBrit

Get the gist if one is against CERN one is against progress...

Get it , I just was hungry at the Cake now it looks all dif ...
I'll fall in line CERN needs mo money mo funding or else there is no progress , remember the Wright Bro's cheerio.

a reply to: frenchfries

A rant about CERN? Did they evict you from your farm to build the collider?

originally posted by: frenchfries
a reply to: darkbake

There is an anti-intellectual movement, even seen here on ATS, so maybe in the future things like CERN will be shut down.

Look I'm not anti CERN or anti-intellectual without CERN there would be no HTML. But I'm against investing into a far future while other tangible projects get less funding. Developing EMdrive with maximal effort might be a better choice that discovering another Boson...

There is an interesting theory that CERN is involved with time travel or inter-dimensional travel. This was brought forth in the anime Steins;Gate and upon further research, I have found that miniature black holes have been used to send photons back in time at CERN.