Ego Death - The dissolution of the ego, and the resulting epiphany

“The first half of life is devoted to forming a healthy ego, the second half is going inward and letting go of it.”

C. G. Jung

a reply to: glend

I know it's perhaps not my place as the question wasn't directed at me, but I want to take a crack at it

If we inherently fill in gaps, our perspectives, and the ego's influence on our perspectives determines the content of the 'mental gap filler'.

ie. who you are determines what you see, but only where content is lacking. So your assumptions and world view's main variable, will be you. But your ego, your personality etc. and less influence from your mental aptitude... that is only one aspect of the repercussions of filling in the gaps ourselves.

Basically a statement in favour of 'you are what you think'.

I hope that makes sense..

a reply to: Picklesneeze

Robotripping?

a reply to: GreenGunther

Yes you make perfect sense and I agree. The brain has to formulate constructs of the world to make sense of it which is continually updated and tested by our subconscious. Because we all experience different stimuli, these constructs will differ from person to person, giving us a unique view of our physical world. Without these constructs we'd make senseless assumptions from what we'd consider today as simply logic.

I once had a similar experience to TechniXcality, remembering the most beautiful music I have ever heard, whilst awakening from sleep, after watching the film Mozart from the night before (he heard it in awakened state). It convinced me that our minds are capable of the magnificent art and should never be underestimated. But that's not really surprising given that the neuron connections (synapses) in each of our brains probably has more computing power than all the computers on earth combined.

a reply to: TechniXcality

and that they in of themselves are not bad things, but that when they turn into a prescribed morality

Which it seems they all do. Human constructs tend towards dogmatic rituals.

Like you, I have undergone these existential crisis' in my life, and like you my earliest came from trying to make sense of the dogmas I was told to believe in. Mine took the form of cogito ergo sum, the Descartes ' I think, therefore I am." I was 17 when I took myself to that extreme doubt in all that I had been told was real and only managed to pull it together again once I had found that sense of being you describe that is beyond all the ego and other things that we use to define ourselves in our daily lives. I might have thought that I had just copied Descartes template in my own search for reality but it was not for another 4 years that I encountered Descartes and boy was that a surprise. No one I tried to talk to about my 'discovery of myself' could understand me, what I had been through. When I read Descartes I jumped for joy to know that I was not alone in the world and that indeed one of the smartest men in history had been to that place I had gone.

And to your earlier thought of how profound insights and experiences are transformed from existential moments into mundane interpretations, since that time in my life, in attempting to speak of it to others they reply with 'Oh yeah, Decartes, I know all about that" but only from reading and never having found that moment for themselves.

I am one who has taken that, those, moments and moved to spirituality. The choice I saw before me was simple enough for me at the time. Either I could take my new found sense of being and attribute it to materialism, that from the primordial ooze arose this sense of self that can undergo existential crises and still be nothing more than randomness pretending for whatever reasons to be consciousness, OR that I had found myself with a foot in the door of experiencing reality, a larger and more subtle reality, that many only read about and with my own ability to walk off and find other 'truths' for myself. The spirituality or perceptions of existence are far afield from those ritual based illusions many of us grew up with.

One such, in my meanderings on that existential plain has been what I call the "is and Is not". That I can sense, in my mind in those moments that I can see all that is, because I am in all that is, indeed I AM all that is without making a distinction between the two, that there is nothing BUT what is. I can look from the precipice at the edge of being and know that nothingness isn't even not. There is only IS. That's a hoot tech.

Anyway there you are. More input for your own considerations.

a reply to: TechniXcality

It's a one of a kind experience and state of consciousness, there are certain spiritual implications and for those inclined to pursue a spiritual path yes ego death may be something they wish to achieve.

Yes, one-of-a-kind, and fleeting.
But you always remember it. I've had three of those in my life.

Once when I was in a car falling off of a cliff.
Again when I was overwhelmed with panic.
And once during meditation as coached by the writings of Alan Watts.


Lots of other little times, but those three are the kind that just stick with you......and are indescribable, really.

a reply to: glend

The ego being an illusionary construct, created upon self introspection giving the impression of a linear experience, I believe Gestalt Theory ( really all of the principals) explains our ego construct quite well, after all it is perceived which I argue is what gives rise to the Ego - our self introspection.

I am in no way arguing the Ego is a bad thing, in fact as i've said without the Ego we are completely unable to function in any meaningful way, so its integral to our experince, however that doesn't take away from the profound experience of ego death.


Buddhism

And Buddhism does talk about the experience of ego death and that it is the highest attainable state, nirvana, enlightenment ect, there's a wealth of information just type in google,"Buddhism ego death" certainly by surrendering ones ego you also become immune to suffering, I am not very well versed in Buddhism, however, the concept of ego death and that state of consciousnesses arguably was first written about by Buddhist monks and was achieved through meditation.

originally posted by: Gryphon66
Astounding OP, Tech.

You're a thinker, and I'd missed that aspect of you in some of our previous interactions. My mistake that I won't make again.

Thank you sir, and I wanted to apologize for that recent Orlando thread where I became very passionate, and I took part in being an asshole and i'm sorry for that.

The effects of many chemical (and non-chemical methods that reproduce some of those effects, a long practice of meditation and breath control, for example) is to change the way we perceive ourselves ... in the perceptual moment which can be expanded. The normal reflexive nature of our consciousnesses changes either temporally or spatially and we see the actual "mechanical actions" of our psyche when generally, most of us just experience the results.

Yes, absolutely and well said, it was in seeing the mechanical nature of my Ego that I realized there is more than just the "I-ness" that there is something behind the mask.

A very simple experience (perhaps a bit similar to yours) put me on the road to questioning reality ... in high school, I was taking a nap one afternoon. I woke up and went to the door of my room reached for the doorknob ... and woke up again (back in bed) ... thought "wow, that's odd," got up, went to the door, reached ... woke up again in bed. Etc. etc.

This happened several times in succession. When I finally actually "woke up" I was terrified, then ... ecstatic ... because I felt as though I had broken through something ... which puts me in mind of the famous Flammarion engraving (I prefer a "colorized" version) :

At any rate ... thanks for the post and the thread. I'll be reading along.

Indeed, false awakenings, and lucid dreams, even sleep paralysis can uncover some of these inner workings, of course I try not to jump off the deep end where I have seen many on ATS go, and often in their threads I play the jester, or outright call them misguided (new agers who create huge fantasy's surrounding the mystical)

perhaps I was saved, because soon after this experience I found myself in the U.S infantry preparing for war, I would tell my battle buddies," I tripped my way into the Army, I have no #en clue what I'm doing here" LOL, and in some ways I was telling the truth. The year prior to joining I was pretty much a "hippy" but a hardcore will "kick your ass hippy" haha, but I am rambling.

Anyway, I say all that to say this, mystical and spiritual experiences are in fact quite possible, and they are fascinating and useful when trying to understand the mind, I just think that people (not you) need to take these things in stride and not commit their lives to such experiences, but rather investigate the inner workings of them, as to not become overtaken or "off down the bunny trails". Thanks for you response on such a confusing subject, I hope I did well explaining it in the OP and you gave me encouragement.

a reply to: TerryMcGuire

Thanks brother, and I am glad to see your path and understand it better, seems you and I have had some similar experiences just different conclusions which is great, that is what makes us unique. I applaud your spiritual path.

a reply to: TechniXcality

Fantastic thread tech. Very well wrtten and described in this meat sack's opinion.

I have had waves of dissociation and ego loss throughout my life. Sense of self and identity, these things i reflected on much more after i would come.back to reality or "ground" myself.

It began for me at a young age with a highly dissociated dream when i was 5. Id go months without theae bizarre dissociative states then Bam.

The experiences intensified as i was in my late teens and early twenties and experimented with substances, namely psychedelics and ayuahsca.

I see and perceive complex patterns in speech and coincidences or "synchronicity" as some put it, largely due to these experiences of dissociation.

I could go on about it but i do thank you for posting about this. I didnt have you pegged as someone thst has experienced dissociation like this, due to your political fervor, but i guess everyones experiences are different and impact different aspects of our minds and consciousness.




Addendum: in the reply right above this post of mine you mentioned how it was cool to have similar experiences as another and how we are uniquely affected, just as i stated in the end of my post. I hadnt read that reply of yours, but that type of coincidence in speech and our writings/works is what i see all the time.

Ever listened carefully to groups having separate conversations and notice people from the two or more different groups saying the same exact phrase at the same exact time? Its strange as heck! That kind of stuff.

Anyway


Cheers man

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

thanks for sharing buzzy, Alan watts, very nice

and i'm glad you are safe, no more cliffs!

a reply to: glend

This doesn't happen often on ATS, someone beginning a post with "Yes you make perfect sense and I agree".
I relish these moments

a reply to: TechniXcality

Mediation is in this case a very non specific word.

Is it heightened energetic body awareness we are after?
And in that case are we talking about energetic pushing like Reiki as the meditation tool?
Are we discussing self awareness as a mediation tool where you question your own view?
Are we talking about Amagydala fear overload experiences?

Is the ego really dead or has the ego been transformed into a higher awareness state where it can examine self and others on a higher level?

You can be soul where the body is very happy and you cannot stop smiling due to the feelings of bliss states and at the same time be very annoyed mentally of what is going on around you. There is a reason some souls have the will to chip away at a mountain (biggest problem) removing one stone at a time knowing it will take time removing the mountain.