Guess how many welfare recipients tested positive in Michigan Gov. Rick Snyder’s drug test?

a reply to: tothetenthpower

Do you understand why those of us who are in favor of this kind of measure want it? A few reasons:

1.) As taxpayers, we foot the bill. We do not want to pay for someone who is drug addicted to carry on as drug addicted. Very often, such people only begin to realize they have a problem when they hit absolute rock bottom and welfare can get in the way of that.

2.) Welfare is not intended to be a comfortable thing. Why are you all so sanguine about getting tested in order to get and hold down your job, but up in arms when the government requires it for welfare? The extra inconvenience might help someone decide to bust their butt that much harder to get off welfare which is what I am sure we all agree the goal is supposed to be.

3.) Even if drugs are legal, they are a luxury good, not a survival item or right. See point #1 as it should also apply to alcoholics. I don't think they allow food stamps to buy alcohol in most places. And I would be in favor of sobriety from alcohol being a condition too.

a reply to: luthier

I can impact life and health to persons at work and community. People have died at my workplace. Sorry chum, its not always about you yoy you.

I would think the social contract for a person on walfare would prompt them to be as responsible with other people's money as possible?

originally posted by: butcherguy

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: butcherguy
I tend to fall on the side of freedom.

The people should be free to use whatever drugs that they like.

The people should be free to feed, clothe and house themselves on their own dime.

I'd rather pay more in taxes to ensure that people are not on the streets starving or committing crimes to feed/clothe themselves.

I suspect that you would rather everyone pay more in taxes to take care of a problem that not everyone feels responsible for.

They work, but do not have the skills or training to get well-paying jobs that can support families.

I highlighted the real problem in red.
They can't support a family because they don't have the skills or training needed.
They may be guilty of poor decision-making also!
Maybe we should sponsor taxpayer funded public schools to teach them how to make those decisions.... no wait, we already have them.... and they apparently fail.

And they will keep failing. Those schools are wasting time and resources teaching kids about gender differences and from 5 years old and upwards that it is ok to be transgendered. Then when they get to collage "Gender studies" will sound really good to them and when they graduate they can inject themselves straight into the welfare system because of it and spend most of their days on FB and tumblr.

And the piss test is slowly being replaced with the salivia / mouth swab. Just FYI

a reply to: neutronflux

Which would make perfect sense.

Sure that's better. Sort of


Actually companies are moving away from testing and more towards giving there employees a chance to get their job back of the admit to having a problem.

Drug testing has been shown countless times to be completely inneffective (unless of course you ask the companies making bank doing them). It's very easy to cross reference with companies who do not drug test. Which is most of the world besides the us. Thanks to good old Ronald Reagan and the war on drugs we love to test here. Even if it doesn't work.

Obviously some professions need to use drugs testing, particularly professional athletes that hit or punch each other. Steroids push the gan body into inhuman capabilities.

The problem most employers find is its something the employees don't like. It's worse when people are random drug tested. Which less than 30 percent of companies are willing to do.

It won't go away but if you compare the numbers of safety and such with Europe it just is a waste of money. Not to places like quest labs of coarse they make a lot of money.

Interestingly enough France keeps coming in above the us in productivity per gdp hours worked. Germany is usually number one. They don't drug test except specific fields and the dr has to do it and inform the employer if he feels it's addiction related. Hmmm imagine that a dr interprets what the test means.

It's almost like they are protecting the workers rights France doesn't test. Not even pilots. Germany either.

Strangely they have the same rate of accidents.

EU panel calls for psychological screening, drug tests for pilots....

m.france24.com...

Take it up with the EU.

a reply to: neutronflux

How did that play out?

And that's the best you could do?

Why are their workers more productive without a drug screening policy?

Could this be a case of the ideology doesn't match the actual results or are you against looking at the data because your principle is more important?

a reply to: luthier

It's not about productivity, it's about safety. Or public health. Do OSHA or EPA requirements make companies more cost effective? DOT requirements for handling hazardous materials? You need to read OSHA process management standard. How does yearly training on blood born pathogens make a company more productive. It's about layers of protection. From screening candidates, training, safe operating limits, redundant operation systems protected by an independent safety system. triple and quad repeated instrumentation. drug test costs are a drop in the bucket compared to the price of a passenger jet, a plant operating systen, or being sued and fined by the government. Even compared to down time due to operator error.

a reply to: neutronflux

So what hasn't Europe adapted to this crisis?

Why would they have a dr interpret the drug test results with the physical to advise the company?

a reply to: luthier

Their power and chemical industries have their own process safety management programs. They don't have environmental laws? Laws concerning hazardous waste disposal? I think you are being fed a false narrative. I believe safety, industrial healthy, and drug screening is more wide spread than you think. It's about human life, community health, stewardship of the environment over profit, and preventing downtime. And you are worried about drug screenings costs? How can I put this gently? ITS A FALSE NARRATIVE!

Does this make you happy. Drug screenings reduce instances of operator error that prevents billions in lost revenue due to forced and unscheduled outages that cause additional cost in maintenance, lost production, and government fines. I am happy to work with people drugged screened beacuse I like going home at the end of the day. Not the ER, fight a plant upset, or a chemical / gas releases.

a reply to: neutronflux

Thats funny because the European workers rights groups and their gov doesn't believe that.

And your creating a strawman. I never mentioned regulations.

I talked about how wealthy Quest labs gets from getting all these accounts. Also the trend in the US is moving away from testing. Because of the costs and beauracracy and the comparisons to effectiveness.

I think you have it backwards who has the false narrative.

a reply to: neutronflux

Uh huh. Funny there doesn't seem to be a crisis in Europeans plants.

Having a specialized testing policy for certain fields does make some sense , however that isn't the case in the us.

a reply to: ladyinwaiting

Are you saying European countries don't use process safety management?

a reply to: neutronflux

Are you saying Europe drug tests 50 percent of the job market?

Enjoy your strawmans.

Not only that the testing procedure is over seen by a doctor. Who will judge whether the person is fit for for the job or not. Which is due process thrown into the system.

Man you are all for stripping the rights of people aren't you.

In manufacturing, the added cost of health care for drug / alcohol users, loss of production due to drug / alcohol users, unscheduled overtime coverage for drug / alcohol uses that don't show up yo work, and added admin costs more than covers the cost of drug testing.

a reply to: luthier

Are you saying Europe doesn't have drug addictions and losses billions due to loss in production?

a reply to: neutronflux

Yeah according to the labs that do the tests.

a reply to: neutronflux

Are you saying that drug testing solved that problem in the us?

If that were true my friend they wouldn't surpass us in productivity now would they?