A Thin Line Between Tough Love And Abuse:

So, I accompanied a friend and his 8yrs old son to a Karate match, as this is a sporting event lots of dads especially on father's day.
As one can imagine kids will be nervous and dads will be judging, if any of you ever been to a Japanese school the first thing that will hit you in summer or winter is the total absence of any kind of heating or air con, they think this will toughen kids up, personally I think it's just to cut cost but whatever I digress, needless to say the auditorium was hotter than 10 hells packed with sweaty bodies with a bunch of 8yrs olds expected to perform their best.
The kids went round after rounds some winning some losing, my friend's kid placed 3rd in his group, Kenji was fine he rubbed lil kentaro's head telling him dijobu (it's aright.) next time he will do better, and that's was that..but not for other dads, one dad smacked his kid across the head and berate him mercilessly, throwing his certificate and 3rd placed medal on the floor then dragged him by the scruff of the neck out of the auditorium, where and how it ended I can't tell, but he wasn't alone, a lot of other dads were of the same mold, yes others were like Kenji and the moms were mostly silent but with a concerned look on their faces, now be it for me to intervene but it seemed like if anyone of those guys took it one step further my instincts would have been to intervene and I would have been in the wrong , but that was an American perspective.

I asked Kenji why he was different, he said he don't know but his father was not like that and doubt if his grandfather was like that also, I was trying to figure out was it cultural or individual and the answer was both, but I am fairly certain that this is how ax murderers and serial killers are made.

a reply to: Spider879

Japanese culture is something i learned to never really ask anything about..

a reply to: Spider879

Love (tough or otherwise) doesn't have anything to do with what these violent men are doing to their boys... They're pressuring their sons to live up to some expectation that will make THEM feel good. So, any pressure they put on their kids is for THEMSELVES. That's not love at all.

There isn't a "thin line" between love and abuse. They are worlds apart.

Yes, welcome to the next generation of mass shooters...

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic
a reply to: Spider879

Love (tough or otherwise) doesn't have anything to do with what these violent men are doing to their boys... They're pressuring their sons to live up to some expectation that will make THEM feel good. So, any pressure they put on their kids is for THEMSELVES. That's not love at all.

There isn't a "thin line" between love and abuse. They are worlds apart.

Yes, welcome to the next generation of mass shooters...

Nice perspective , not for the sake of the kids but for THEM!

Japanese culture is alien to the western world, there raised to be ant workers, never to question authority and always show deferance to there elders.

My kids are half japanese, which is awesome because they get to see 2 different cultures.

A few years back i had to explain to my ex family that we raise are kfds differently,
It didint go to well but hey im a gaijin, what do i know right.

a reply to: dukeofjive696969

While my family was strict in a certain sense , it was never abusive and I did get a rough talking to when my grades dropped for no other reason than being lazy or wanting to do other stuff, but damn this is a whole other level, some of these guys would do a Spartan family proud, I have girls so may be I am easier on them than if they were boys, I know it's kinda sexist but I had until recently the GOD VOICE!! and that would be enough for the time being would it work if it was boys..I donno I am sure it would't work on me. not for long anyways.

Remove that line and there is no difference as both are control. So what the question is? Why and for what purpose does one desire such control? Typically it is to program someone to be how they want or desire them to be instead of encourage who they are... if there are behavioral issues... then encouragment has already failed to take place.

Before my devorce, we were time out people... he only needed it once during that time. He threw a very hard toy and smacked his mom with it and laughed at her reaction of pain. I picked him up carried him to the time out spot and said sit here and think about what youve done.

I went and consoled her as she was crying, he was watching and started crying too mirroring her and wanting to console as I was... but he saw from a distance that he was separate and the cause of the pain. He quieted down in introspection but was still visibly upset.

I walked over sat beside him eye to eye and asked him if he was sorry, he said yes. I said are you sure? He nodded as his mother stood next to me... he said Im sorry daddy. I said you didnt strike me apologize to your mom. He took a very calm relaxed gentle tone, and apologized to her and she picked him up and embraced him, due to post partum that was likely the first time.

Perhaps if she got down on his level eye to eye he wouldnt have gotten clingly later after the divorce to where she addmitted to taking to spanking... was I thrilled? No all I asked was what happened to time out? She said he wont leave me alone, basically like a tumor in separation anxiety... so she took to beating him off because he couldnt articulate his feelings just felt spearate and axious.

I always got down on his level eye to eye in play and speaking... his voice was always clear calm and gentle.

When a parent dictates... they grow a little dictator, and like the many countries we have... we cant see eye to eye when people start trying to dictate instead of be one the same level called attempting to understand... there is no higher or lower to this level, as thats in the mind and just labels... we are all humanity yet not acting like humans because we try to place others or ourselves higher or lower than other humans based on these illusions we also have about what makes someone human than the very fact of life that animates the form we recognize as such.

How we animate this form we call human? Makes all the difference in the world by way of intent.

So what is the intent behind what one is doing? If you see negativity and react negatively to that mirror it will reflect that no different... smashing the mirror on either side just shatters the image of the whole. So why would one want to smash something that already mirrors them?

Be the behavior one wants to see, not a mirror that smashed you into what they wanted to see. We call that tradition in both cases? It is simply approach.

How we approach things as a young mind or ignorant mind and not knowing? Everything becomes our subject of experimentation... how do we forget this? Because we think we have already seen all sides enough to know better?

Wisdom and ignorance is both salty and sweet... just ask to whoms eyes that behavior becomes a flavor in.

What we crave or have a taste for is personal, trying to change someone elses tongue is influence. If someone has an affinity for that influence... then they will have a similar taste when experiencing life, yet each little fragment of experience although similar is still an individual.

Respect the individual for the unique person they are and water them as one would ones self... if one would like to see not only themself grow? But everything external as well...

Cloning oneself through behavoir, is the illusion of an ego that says one is perfect... in that perfection they try to become a mold, to form the world into what they want it to be in foolish pride... when 7 billion plus are doing this? We have our current world.

Fortunately 7 billion plus are not trying to destroy it yet 7 billion plus are also not trying to create it either just accept it and preserve the possibility that it continues.

One is belief and ideas one has about things and how they can shape them with their creativity, and one the same yet respects what was already here. The future is possibility and with each choice it occurs. The outcome good or bad? Depends on intent behind ones purpose.

So what is your purpose when not seeing that line as the same thing called control? If you cannot determine that both are control? Does one even have it themself? Or is it tradition and that very programming carried that hurt when it was being programmed into oneself at that time? Trauma blocks out such things over time in order to adapt as an adaptation to that adversity.

That is no different than cutting a naturally growing tree, so it grows the way we desire it to grow... yet it is simply a tree. What sort of tree? Well what programming are you planting for the future? That others may appreciate or have to dig up, heal, mend or disinfect?

If someone wants responsibility? They first have to take it for themself by seeing the effects of the causes they create. One is only adding more stress and pain, to a cause theyve already created compounded yet the issue even further... take heed into what one is fashioning, like a blacksmith with each blow. Either way it will be judged by the world during the entire process, of all others seeing it.

Instead of judging and limiting possibility of the future? The change one wants to see, has to be in the reflection on that mirror we wish to cast off into the world. Please make sure its something the world wants... which is a future and possbility for better, and isnt that what you wanted in asking this question? Better?

Well, its up to you to make it that way in the world that you call your life... as it spreads out? It becomes the entire world... pass it on or throw it away wont be your decision, as the world is the judge, when we got here it was already like this... when we leave? Hopefully a LITTLE better... and its up to us to make the littles inside and out better through healing... not perpetuating the same pains for the same futures even long after we are gone and in the past.

Medicine of the world or poison is always a personal choice, moment by moment by moment.

a reply to: Spider879

Well. These #1 dad's are really preparing these boys to stand up to them someday...or to have a violent outburst. Either/ or.

Yeah it's stupid to have unrealistic expectations of your kids and to withhold affection as a means to motivate them.

a reply to: NarcolepticBuddha

Basically yes... but the bully will be no different than the one the parent or great great great great... grandparent ones had... other than a different face of a different generation... yet the same baggage no one bothered to check... and people wonder why an airline asks someone if they packed their own baggage.

dbbl post

Different culture = different results.

Kids grow into effective hard working successful people but family life not as loving? Just a guess, may be BS because when you have children you realise they forget the bollockings almost immediately. But they live on in the heart of the parent for days.

generally anything with out a safe word is bordering on abuse lol

a reply to: GrandCourtJester

The first safeword is of course the one of consent for such... children dont have such; being subjected to such things with out any ability to give consent for what ever means society gaurds and protects them by a changing standard... whether one calls it progress can show clearly morals and ethics as freedom goes and ones right to consent are not the same thing.

I was beaten and forced to go to church... made me hate religion of any sort for a long time... of course past that abuse and consent is mine I can and have attended many types... walked out of one that started the hate and divide business went through full ceremony in one that didnt which id'd as non denominational and felt what people deem holy spirit no real different than some meditation just off cushion or that song or whatever that strikes chord.

So was force and abuse required or accomplished anything at that time of no consent that made me hate not only church but that abuser even more? Told him last year last chance to apollogize... pride wouldnt let him do it as just a wolf hiding in sheeps clothes pretending to church.

Oh well... couldnt extend such olive branches at those swatting it away hoping to pull more into their web of lies and abuse forever. Sociopaths only have self love and empathy for self protection to feed on what they want such as children that society wont and doesnt allow them to feed on for good reason.

a reply to: Spider879

Uhhhhhhhhhhhhh . . . as to cause of such 'dad' behavior . . .

Read my 'stock answer #1.' . . . . RAD.

There's no better nor a more foundational answer.

It's just a fact.

Chronic poor fathering induced childhood insecurity doesn't get better because someone gets older. It usually gets worse.

Such "fathers" seemingly can't tolerate their sons behaving in a way that leave the father looking less than perfectly successful macho.

Sheesh.

a reply to: Spider879

I think that by the time a child is a teen . . . the parent must shift gradually into an inviting consultant role.

The time to solve teen problems is age 0-6.

Discipline WITHOUT sufficient EMOTIONAL, HEALTHY AFFECTION BONDING will virtually always produce rebellion, hurt, anger, hostility, etc.

Sigh

a reply to: BigBrotherDarkness

People fail to realize that

DO UNTO OTHERS AS YOU'D HAVE THEM DO UNTO YOU

REALLY IS

A

LAW

of the multiverse.

And it will almost always come back to bite in the butt those who ignore that law.

Parents who FAIL to give the child 0-6 years old good quality and amounts of bonded loving healthy affection and attention

WILL

eventually pay the price in

--sleepless nights;
--anger, stress and shortened life-span;
--court ordered counseling fees
--attorney fees;
--residential treatment fees, drug/alcohol rehab fees;
--higher insurance fees for teen drivers with a record;
--endless hours at the hospital, police station and/or principal's office;
--embarrassment whenever questions come up about your kids at family gatherings &/or at work;
--fears about when the next headline will include your kid's name with your family name attached;
--worries about suicide and the consequences therefrom for you and spouse
etc. etc. etc.

a reply to: BigBrotherDarkness

I think it's more self-loathing instead of self-love.

They are trying to force others to 'force' the perpetrator to feel better about themselves . . . because of the deep bottomless hole of desperate need and low self worth that was installed by poor parenting early in THEIR childhood.

a reply to: BO XIAN

Just imagine what pressure Trump junior in those "Mini Me" suits is going through...

I would wager if a betting man either suicide attempts heavy drug abuse or both in trying to cope with such an imposing impossible figure demanding perfection.

a reply to: BO XIAN

Oh my abuser tried tried to call sexual abuse love... cause he didnt know any better.

Like im supposed to have sympathy for his ignorance and accept that twisted crap as love? Ha BS... if he wants to suck on a virgin and he has many of them he can try eggs from the dairy department.

Same with all the rest of them "confused" excuse does not excuse such behavior except in oneself called self justification. He delivered it and I wasnt buying it and neither should anyone else in such cases.

a reply to: BigBrotherDarkness

ABSOLUTELY . . . ALL ABUSE NEEDS SMACKED DOWN FIERCLY IMMEDIATELY.

Particularly sexual abuse.

Sigh.

Grrrr.

It does not matter what the abuser's childhood was like. It doesn't matter the traceable or untraceable causes.

Stop the evil stuff period. Immediately. etc. etc. etc.