Times LDEO collapse seismogram of WTC-7, compared to the by NIST time-stamped Cianca 9/11 photo

originally posted by: Informer1958
Am I and LaBTop are the only one's on this thread given credible source to back our claims?

Well, as you and labtop are not actually giving any credible sources, what are you on about?

a reply to: Informer1958

Yeap, you really outlined credible arguments to the research papers I referenced. And the universities that concluded fire brought down the buildings at the WTC? Again, what credentials do you have to have to unload to YouTube. Videos so scientific they cannot be published as credible research.

For the thousands time, produce audio proof that explosions were there result of explosives.

originally posted by: Informer1958
a reply to: neutronflux

All the persons the worked ground zero because they lost family and friends helped the government hide and destroy evidence.

Where did you read that?

Family that volunteered to find lost one's remains. The firefighters and police that lost sisters and brothers.

Where do you get your information from?

The fact is, Police and Firefighters went on public record claiming they were in explosions, and heard many explosions.
Which goes against the OS narratives.

The truck drivers. The engineers. The everyday people the combed the ruble and debris. They were all part of the government conspiracy?

No, the only one's that were, where on a need to know information, meaning it was "compartmentalized" from the rest of the rescue workers at ground zero.

Don't have to prove anything. How many firefighters were lost on 911? How many firefighters worked the WTC after 911. Living firefighters that had camaraderie with the lost firefighters? The living never had working and professional relationships with the lost. Multiple family members never serve as firefighters. It's never a family tradition or anything. And that's just the firefighters. Are you really that daft or uncaring?

And what do you mean by need to know? And the site didn't need security to keep morbid people from collecting souvenirs.

a reply to: neutronflux

Don't have to prove anything. How many firefighters were lost on 911? How many firefighters worked the WTC after 911. Living firefighters that had camaraderie with the lost firefighters? The living never had working and professional relationships with the lost. Multiple family members never serve as firefighters. It's never a family tradition or anything. And that's just the firefighters. Are you really that daft or uncaring?

These questions that you continue to ask have already been debated about on many old 911 ATS threads.

Trying to appeal on an emotional level "Are you really that daft or uncaring?" No I am not.

This is all you have for your debunking skills, by asking redundant questions and steering away from the real science that has been presented to you?

And what do you mean by need to know? And the site didn't need security to keep morbid people from collecting souvenirs.

Playing ignorant will not help you at all.

This thread is not about what you think about me, so please, I ask you to reframe from personal things you believe about me, I am not the discussion here.

a reply to: Informer1958

Still waiting on your rebuttals on why all the universities, engineering firms, and insurance companies that came to the conclusion fire brought down the WTC buildings are wrong? I guess it's all that eyewitnesses accounts with no evidence or your YouTube arguments you claim as credible and scientific research. How does the scientific method go again and how have the universities violated that method in there WTC conclusion?

a reply to: Informer1958

Still waiting on what need to know was defined as for the 3000 workers and firefighters at ground zero. How was that enforced at ground zero. How was that enforced in shipping. How was that enforced at the landfill. How was that enforced when 17,000 body parts were recovered? Who was doing on site enforcement and the penalties for not complying?

a reply to: neutronflux

Still waiting on your rebuttals on why all the universities, engineering firms, and insurance companies that came to the conclusion fire brought down the WTC buildings are wrong?

Apparently they believe every word the government told them about 911.

The Universities are not going to expose government corruption when they get government Grants. Never bite the hand that feeds you. Same with many engineer firms, the fact is, many engineer firms get government contracts.

I guess it's all that eyewitnesses accounts with no evidence or your YouTube arguments you claim as credible and scientific research.

Are you suggesting that everyone is lying? Perhaps you have some credible evidence you would like to share with us?

How does the scientific method go again and how have the universities violated that method in there WTC conclusion?

What Universities are you talking about?

Is there a University that has done a Peer Review Paper proven the OS narratives about the WTC are true?

Is there a University that is investigating 911? Not that I am aware of.

Still waiting on what need to know was defined as for the 3000 workers and firefighters at ground zero. How was that enforced at ground zero. How was that enforced in shipping. How was that enforced at the landfill. How was that enforced when 17,000 body parts were recovered? Who was doing on site enforcement and the penalties for not complying?

How do most people change clothes, do they use their right arm first to put on a shirt, or do they use their left arm first to slide on a shirt?

The question you should be asking is who were the foreman barking the orders and whom where they taking orders from?

How was that enforced

How do you control a classroom of children?

Who was doing on site enforcement and the penalties for not complying?

Do you have evidence that someone was not complying? Your questions are redundant.

a reply to: neutronflux

What did you debunk? You claim you use science? You pointed out nothing you thought was erroneous in anything I referenced. Papers and universities held to accountability that provide science, evidence, and explain why truthers only have fabricated narritives. You did not provide one fact, only can recite truther talking points, and rant. You couldn't even back up you claim of how need to know was implemented, who enforced it, and the consequences violating it at ground zero clean up. You haven't even done the research or have the common sense to know individuals wanted to work in the clean up effort at ground zero because of lost family and friends. Or worse, it doesn't fit your narritive. For your narritive to work, even the clean up crew had to be part of the conspiracy. So you even imply they are criminals by association.

And why don't guys ever mention the bomb sniffing dogs that worked the WTC befire 911?

a reply to: Informer1958

I'm redundant because you always focus on the NIST and truther research with has no credible evidence. You are the ones that never mention all the information that never fits your narritive. Collages, Universities, engineering firms, insurance companies, Skeptic magazine, Popular Mechanics, firefighters, law enforcement, and safety groups research has come to the conclusion fire brought down the buildings at the WTC.

For your narritive to work, you need people to believe all WTC information and research is controlled by the NITS which is another fabrication. You don't like credible institutions and individuals have researched independently and while criticizing the NIST still proved fire was the cause of collapse at the WTC.

a reply to: Informer1958

I asked how colleges violated scientific method in their WTC research. You say that don't want to bite the hand that feeds them. One, thst doesn't answer the question. Two, is that the science you have laid down for past ten years?

A reply to: neutronflux

Could you for one day stop polluting this thread with immensely redundant questions, uncountable times already answered by well informed members over a period of 15 years by now.

STOP your endless innuendo and very false and insinuating appeal on emotion (for starters, you have NO CLUE at all if you are talking here to a 9/11 victim family member, asking for a new, far better investigation, than which was allowed to be done by two consecutive Administrations), and start following the ONLY logical advice here at ATS for freshly entering new members at the 9/11 discussion forefront :

UTFSE (use the . search engine)

Just type f.ex in the ATS Search page line, my screen name, and one or some of the words you used in your former posts, spread out over the 13 pages of this thread.
You will be surprised to find that I have answered your remarks, questions and misconceptions already numerous times in the past 11 years of my membership here (had decades more of research on all conspiracy based subjects on other boards before that), and there are only a very few times to be found that I had to, and of course did indeed, retract my answers, since they were proven partly or totally false by civil opponents.
If I'm remembering right, it was no more than 5 times, and every time I clearly admitted my mistakes.

Which behavior is a.f.a.i.k., absent in the Truster corner, I do not know of any of you who ever has retracted their arguments. I would be interested however to be pointed to such event(s), if I am mistaken in my memory or have not read them in this 9/11 forum.

In your case, no chance at all, your questions and remarks have all been countered numerous times by me in the past, and of course also already by MANY other informed members.

You cause enormous, unnecessary cluttering in this thread, so follow my friendly advice, and thou shall be enlightened.
If not, and you feel you have serious remarks or arguments to throw in, do build up your remarks with linked EVIDENCE, or name the books and post excerpts, so we can check if you are honestly using the exact words.
Up till now, you only post baseless sentences in a forum that asks for educated evidence.

I'll show you WHY, in my next post, that addresses your blind IDOLIZATION of ALL scientific research at Universities.

I have extensive years of research at Universities under my belt, and made some groundbreaking discoveries. Which were suppressed for more than 50 years, by those damn bible thumping politicians of yours, then in power. Because it gave your women free choice.
Only lately our decades old research outcomes are offered as a solution for many worrying parents. Who want to make their own free will decisions , not based on ancient books full of fundamental opinions, but on real, factual, fundamental science. So I had my full share of completely irrationally, suppressed science.

No, samkent and hellobruce, no names (btw advised in ATS rules to not use them as screen names, or in answer of teaser-posts, btw for the right reasons), your "too friendly" government is a wolf (serpent is a better word) in sheep's clothes against independent researchers, I had my violent clashes with them, at several levels, and I was definitely not amused.

In my opinion, refusing -like NIST did- to investigate the 9/11 anomalies is, at least, disrespectful of the victims and their families.
At the most -- for some, it still seems harsh to say -- it's utter cowardliness when confronted with constant information-oppression by government and their minions.

Thus, take your chances with the following online 9/11 and WTC-7 information video-library, but first view, listen and more importantly, ABSORB this scientist's explanation about :

"The fraud that US controlled science has become".

This is a stern direct warning to my European politicians WHY they should not vote for signing the latest American based, polluted food and BIG-Pharma extortion plan, hidden in their latest US - EU trade treaty proposition.
It means Monsanto, US Big-Pharma, US Steel, in fact US Corporate Business, can conquer their next market goal, the European Union without anymore being scrutinized by all the environmental laws we have fought so hard for, all the last decades :

Story ONE :

Why government-funded science leads to SCIENCE FRAUD
TheHealthRanger (Mike Adams) 825 views, May 3, 2016, 18:33 min
www.youtube.com...

* When the government controls science funding, it uses its power to twist science, suppress science and selectively fund only those scientists who support a political agenda.
* Scientists who are critical of the government's agenda get their funds revoked.
* EPA, FDA, CDC, USDA are all engaged in widespread scientific fraud and cover-ups. They actively suppress independent science. (LT : NIST, a prime example of all his arguments)
* The government uses financial extortion to control scientists.
* Today's "science" is a dictatorial demand for obedience to whatever conclusions are desired by the politicians.
* Corporate-funded science is also science FRAUD. "Institutionalized scientific malpractice."
* This all explains why government should NOT be in the business of controlling funding for scientific research.
* There is no stronger ANTI-science organization than the government itself.
* Question every science-related statement made by government. Question the NIH, the NSF, the NCI, etc.
* Government uses money to corrupt science, not to support real science.

* Real science isn't afraid of independent ideas.

* Check out the book "Science for Sale" by David Lewis, former EPA scientist and bio-sludge whistleblower.
* The EPA even targets scientists who review scientific papers they don't like, pulling their funding and blacklisting them from government jobs.
* The EPA is a huge ANTI-SCIENCE organization that hates independent science.
* Look at how the FDA silenced Dr. David Graham for blowing the whistle on Vioxx.
50,000+ Americans died from Vioxx, more than all Americans killed in the Vietnam War.
* The CDC silenced Dr. William Thompson, who blew the whistle over vaccines and autism.
* The CDC is an anti-science organization, so to attack the CDC's scientific fraud is actually PRO SCIENCE.
* Even the scientists inside the EPA, FDA or CDC are fully aware their organization is engaged in systematic scientific fraud. But they are afraid to speak out.
* The EPA's "sludge magic" reasoning is more anti-scientific than even the Flat Earth believers!

Story TWO :
40% of Scientists Admit : Fraud “Always or Often” Contributes to Irreproducible Research
http://(link tracking not allowed)/1XkpU1b

Story THREE :
Scientists Say Fraud Causing Crisis of Science
corbettreport 15.647 views, NEW, 17:53 min
www.youtube.com...


-- more --

9/11 and WTC-7 (implications) videos that are very INFORMATIVE and quite uncontroversial.
Sorted by date, posted on the NET :

Saudi Press Says 9/11 Was a US Job
corbettreport 33.304 views, 1 week ago, 16:28 min
Saudi story starts at the 9:00th minute in the video.
www.youtube.com...

Noam Chomsky full length interview: Who rules the world now?
Channel 4 News 479.610 views, 3 weeks ago, 17:14 min
www.youtube.com...

911 And The Saudi Connection - James Corbett and Charlie Strange on PFT Live
Press For Truth 10.360 views, 1 months ago, 1:04:05 hrs
www.youtube.com...

How Big Oil Conquered the World
corbettreport 417.999 views, 5 months ago, 1:11:27 hrs
www.youtube.com...

Incontrovertible - New 9/11 Documentary by Tony Rooke
ConspiracyScope 305.896 views, 6 months ago, 2:01:23 hrs
www.youtube.com...

AN INCONVENIENT 9/11 TRUTH [Part I] (2015)
Truther TV 83.771 views, 8 months ago, 2:52:00 hrs
www.youtube.com...

AN INCONVENIENT 9/11 TRUTH [Part II] (2015): Roads from NYC to OKC
Truther TV 27.715 views, 8 months ago, 3:15:47 hrs
www.youtube.com...

From JFK to 9/11: Everything Is A Rich Man's Trick (2014)
ConspiracyScope 62.750 views, 10 months ago, 3:27:56 hrs
www.youtube.com...

The Secret Life of Timothy McVeigh
corbettreport 213.971 views, 1 year ago, 58:17 min
www.youtube.com.../11

9/11 WTC Biggest Gold Heist in History: $300 Billion in Bars
Anonymous Gui 10.117 views, 1 year ago, 5:04 min
www.youtube.com...

9/11: Best Physical Evidence for Explosives (revised)
vengencefrom1979 38.671 views, 1 year ago, 1:48:10 hr
www.youtube.com...

2015 911Truth The Science at Technical University Delft Lecture 16 April 2015
911matrix.whynotnews.eu 13.211 views, 1 year ago, 2:24:03 hrs
www.youtube.com...

9/11 TRUTH Jewish Ex Marine SPEAKS OUT on Israeli Involvement
Anonymous Gui 2.343 views, 1 year ago, 23:52 min
www.youtube.com...

Judge Napolitano Exposing 9/11 Cover Up With Lt Col Anthony Shaffer
Anonymous Gui 4.333 views, 1 year ago, 14:51 min
www.youtube.com...

The Dynasty of Rothschild | The Only Trillionaires in the World - Full Documentary
Sish Advexon 1.136.371 views, 2 years ago, 55:51 min
www.youtube.com...

Michael Collins Piper on JFK
by Ryan Dawson 21.956 views, 2 years ago, 3:02:24 hrs
www.youtube.com...

War is always by Deception
by Ryan Dawson 108.186 views, 4 years ago, 3:05:55 hrs
www.youtube.com...

CIA Asset Susan Lindauer Can Now Speak 10 years after 9-11.
stopthenewworldordernow.com 173.377 views, 4 years ago, 1:29:11 hrs
www.youtube.com...

CIA Threatens 9/11 Researchers After Discovery of Cover Up
cz3rt1k2 516.877 views, 4 years ago, 12:53 min
www.youtube.com...

CONSPIRACY: THE BALL NEXT TO TOWER 2
MrIlluminati82 3.463.908 views, 4 years ago, 22:17 min
www.youtube.com...
This author made quite an effort of 3D-mapping the WTC grounds plus all its buildings, remarkably comparable to all used video camera angles, for which I applaud him.
The video he used was too grainy, later FOIA freed ones showed that second "dive bombing" plane in much better detail, and it turned out that his "sphere" was in fact Flight 175UA.

CIA Insider Tells 911 truth. Time to re-examine your World-view, America!
WelcomeBackHome 7.362.333 views, 4 years ago, 23:39 min
www.youtube.com...

a reply to: LaBTop

"The fraud that US controlled science has become".

You are correct, governments buys science to fit their political agenda, and in the global warming scam science, it's all about how the government is going to extort money, from We The People.

Not just in the USA but all over the world.

Global warming data FAKED by government to fit climate change fictions

www.naturalnews.com...

Global Warming: So Dishonest It Makes Enron Look Like a Paragon of Integrity

www.breitbart.com...

Tracking Climate Fraud

stevengoddard.wordpress.com...

Global warming HOAX unravels... globalist science fraud engineered to control humanity, not save it

www.naturalnews.com...


These websites are just some examples to how big governments controls the outcome of bought and paid for science.

This is no different to the NIST government bought and paid for science, that now has been proven a fraud.

I try to keep my paragraphs small. Don't always sucseed, but still post less than you. I though your post after post was because you like seeing what you post. Then I saw the pattern. Things you don't like or cannot answer get posted. You push it into the back ground with a bunch of quotes and copy paste items with out even addressing what was asked. You do this to push what you don't want to address off the page into the back. Shows you lack poise and only pushing the truther narritive. You act as if you get off track by common sense or technical questions. Bet this post will be pushed off the page by your rants.

I know you are not telling the truth. By your logic, government is hiding something and using its power to suppress the truth at all costs. It did away with its own people on 911or an accomplice according to your aligations? Am I wrong? Yet you post what is your truth. So, by your logic, you are posting what the tyrannical government wants you to post or they would be after you. Or there is no conspiracy that used explosives, thermite, nukes, missiles, lasers, or dustification clouded in holographic jets.

SCIENCE is, and has luckily always been, the shifting quicksands-playground for always wondering, young of minds-individuals, in search of changing opinions on former "facts".

Second try to post the " Story TWO : http:// (bit(.)ly : link tracking not allowed)/1XkpU1b " link in my above post :
40% of scientists admit fraud, in all (or most) cases it is used, is the cause of failure of research-reproducibility :
twitter.com...

Another example :
Big-Pharma propaganda on parade :
Most science journal studies on prescriptions are written by big-pharma's own scientists.

I really hope some official stories trusting readers will now reconcile their opinion regarding the really important parts of the clearly QUASI-scientific research parts, printed by NIST, regarding the collapse of WTC-7 on 9/11/2001.

And then realize there's a few more of such parts to discover in those Final NIST Reports.

My fellow DOUBTERS, view and listen INTENSELY to this 17 years old boy's, clearly very intelligent, serious political rant and intelligent ADVICES regarding governments who bend science to their own advance-only.
The "best monologue in human history" is a tad bit overdone, but he IS hilarious in his straight out honesty :

How To Destroy The Singapore (switch to : YOUR OPPRESSIVE) Government (via INTERNET video actions) :
youtu.be...


Amos Yee is a prime example of the rebirth of INTERNET activism, the ONLY movement various oppressive Eastern and Western governments are seriously afraid of.

We are in dreary need of more of these well informed , outspoken youngsters, to COUNTER NIST's QUASI SCIENCE subjects, f.ex. their deceptive WTC-7 Final Report.

Just exchange all "Singapore" (government) words you hear from him, by f.ex. "American" or "Middle American" or "South American" or "Chinese" or "Saudi-Arabian" or "Indonesian" or "Philippine" or "Polish" or "Hungarian" or "Turkish" or "Moroccan" or "Egyptian" or "Syrian" or "Israeli" or "Iraqi" or "Afghan" or "Myanmar" or etcetera, etcetera "democratically" elected GOVERNMENTS.

I once lived for a few months in Singapore, rented for my family the whole hotel's penthouse floor from the amiable and well bred, distinguished tall brother of the, then decades long already, prime minister of that city-state full of, once extradited from Malaysia, hardworking people, mostly from Chinese descends, mixed with some Sikhs from India who lived nearby in their own lively Little India suburb, and a few other non-Chinese citizens.
I had some interesting conversations with this well spoken brother, but found out that when it turned only slightly to political subjects regarding Singapore, or the laws implemented by his brother, he suddenly got vicious, and directly after, steered away from any critique on his government or his brother.

Once more it was made clear to me that ANY ruling class will viciously defend their positions, which most of the time ends with imprisoning opponents, and even unlawfully killing them on fixed charges, when the pressure grows.

It's the illogical reaction of deeply afraid rulers, for the wrath of the ruled.

Only in South Africa under NELSON MANDELA, we ever saw the acceptance from the PAST atrocities and progression to mutual understanding, and implementing it in new laws and common day life.

AMERICA, suit your actions to the right words, let intelligent political PROGRESS not stop YOU, but strengthen YOU.
Let the Molochs not stop inevitable PROGRESS with their usual bloodshed.
Since we, the rest of the world, are gravely worried about the increasingly aggressive path your ELECTED ( really? ) decisions-makers are following, right now.

It will end with "war rooms" full of hate-indoctrinated half-grown teenagers hanging in comfortable leather chairs, while lost to all sense of honor, unwarrantable and mercilessly killing endless masses of complete strangers to them, with remote controlled, yet small, but increasingly bigger designed drones, equipped with increasingly heavier weaponry.
The ultimate COWARDLY proxy-wars effort the Pentagon brass is dreaming-up, RIGHT NOW.

With no oversight from any really concerned US politician, nor citizen.
And how convenient, no US lifes lost, the present military brass will argument.
Not really, since in effect, history indicates that indistinct cruelty, always lost in the end.


Of course this will end with the annihilation of such a bullying nation, by red hot hating other nations combined efforts. Just reconcile ALL history, in the end YOU and your FAMILIES will loose.
And it will be utterly bloody.
Do YOU want to go that path.?

Or do you choose for the MANDELA OPTION, forgive and forget?
Can you still choose?
How bitter the next sad realization must be, since you suddenly realize your electorate already abandoned the only old-age candidate in too great numbers, who really, REALLY wanted to get rid of your GREEDY oligarchs.

PS : now interested to view young Amos Yee's two opinions on religion too.? :

Refuting Islam With Their Own Quran (Censored), Amos Yee, 178.359 views, 8:18 min.
www.youtube.com...


Responding To The Common Bullshism of Christians, Amos Yee, 229.330 views, 21:37 min.
www.youtube.com...


PS2 :
Btw, Amos Yee is already charged now on 8 accounts, including 2 of failing to report to the Police in Jurong Station. He tried to run overseas, but he can't run with the law on his heels. He was attacked recently.


PS3 :
YouTube -really- banned/censored both religious videos by Amos, TWICE ! :
www.youtube.com...


Did he got around religious ANXIETY of greedy conglomerates ? :
Amos Yee : Greatest Islam video of all time is on Vimeo after Youtube banned it: vimeo.com...

No it's not.
First subscribe for free to VIMEO, take their free-for-lifetime basic service account, you find only 4 videos by Amos, not the religious rants. What's up? Suppression?
Or self-suppression, because of serious life threats.?

Just read the comments section of his Christian rant, how dare some of these, call themselves religious? They are bloodthirsty criminals, indoctrinated in believing in fake Christian, or fake Muslemic superiority...
The real religious rules are calling for understanding, loving inter-human relationships :
Understand that at last, (false)GOD(s)DAMN-IT !

This obvious extremely intelligent young boy deserves not the attention his rulers now give him. Or is he free to move around yet, and write and say things freely again?

Making up that the 1993 WTC 1000 bomb did not make a seismograph reading at 16km away because the government destroy the data shows you will state anything to push your narritive with no credible evidence. You also ignored my question, the earth will pass low frequency / energy waves while acting at a filter and tends to blocks high frequency / energy waves. That's probably why individual charges of controlled demolition of buildings are not picked up by seismograph. Also the Protect technical services with their portable seismographs in Manhattan during 911 did not pick up seismic activity indicative of blasting activity backed by Columbia University. Those are facts.
... funny truthers never mentions protect or the bomb sniffing dogs stationed at the WTC.