A prediction for the coming insanity

a reply to: TheRedneck
The scary thing is, it seems like there will be riots and violence no matter who wins - or steals the election. Even if Trump loses legitimately, his followers wouldn't believe it. If Clinton wins, no sane person would think it wasn't fixed.

By the way, very excellent assessment. My stereotyping of Rednecks has diminished!

a reply to: SargonThrall

Would it help if I told you that I once mowed my yard and found 2 cars and a tractor? My brother-in-law mowed his and found my truck!



TheRedneck

Hah hah ha.... Like your summary. Protests in America.. Let me sum it up about what is gonna happen. Trump is going to shake that bottle and yank the cork. Everybody else just wants to figure out how to preserve the bottle as it is and glean as much as they can from it before the wine becomes vinegar.

I'd rather pass on chaos but when there is no other option than being gleaned from until we are done I say shake baby shake. After the dust settles we can cork a new bottle of wine.

I've started several threads on Donald Trump, from a critical perspective. To put it in a nutshell, I think that Trump is a dabbler in politics with very little real understanding of the issues that he has promoted in his campaign. In that sense he is very representative of "the average American", who knows about as much as Trump does about what is going on. The average American can truly say, on that basis, that Donald Trump is "one of us".

Trump is, as a result, a formidable political force.

The opposition that Trump has encountered in the Republican Party establishment and among significant numbers of ordinary Republicans comes from that smaller number of Americans who know more about how politics works in the United States and know more about the political issues facing the country. These people don't like Donald Trump's approach to politics or to dealing with political and social issues. They think that Donald Trump is excessively authoritarian (fascist?), excessively rebellious, and possibly mentally unstable.

In short, they think he's a crackpot.

I think the short term future of America is in the hands of those on the Republican side of politics in the country who want to stop Donald Trump from getting his hands on the levers of power in the country. It seems like the only way to do that would be to run a prominent third party candidate on the right of the political spectrum (the Stop Trump Party?) which would split the Republican vote and either hand the presidency to Clinton, or force a vote in Congress that would give the nation's highest office to a congressional choice, not Trump.

If this were to happen, would there be civil unrest? I think it is possible that there would be some trouble. The activity of a third party in American politics is not unprecedented but the precedents are not contemporary ones. Many Americans might see such a maneuver, running a "Stop Trump" candidate in a third party, as blatantly subversive of the normal electoral paradigm and take violent umbrage at it.

One can understand this, but in countries around the world where political opinion is fractured in the way that American public opinion is being fractured, the presence of multiple political parties is taken for granted.

Donald Trump's supporters will realize, hopefully, that the fracturing of American political opinion is Donald Trump's most profound contribution to politics in the United States and has been achieved without even having to win elected office.

Trump himself, if he has real weight and integrity as a political leader, if he is more that a lightweight flash in the pan, should take ownership of this development and start to navigate as if it were an established fact and not a temporary anomaly. He does show signs of doing that, but there are also signs of his being subsumed into the larger remnant of the established Republican matrix (endorsement by Dick Cheney!).

Problems will arise if Donald Trump's political supporters are not sophisticated enough to realize what has happened. A simple minded Trump centric viewpoint will be tempted to cry "foul" at the obviously manipulative appearance of a "Stop Trump" political party. They might not see such a development as being consistent with "freedom of speech", "freedom of assembly" or "the right to self determination" and, rather, view it as simple, cynical chicanery. Such people could take to the streets.

It is very possible that Americans are going to be put into a position where, for the first time in generations, they will be able to understand and experience why politics in places like Greece and France and Italy seem so turbulent and unsettled.

European politicians are used to shuffling over in their seats into coalitions, where clear majorities can't be obtained. Do parliamentary systems accommodate better than presidential ones to fractured political landscapes? Perhaps that's one of the things that makes European politics different from the politics of South America (and "America"?).

In any case, we live in interesting times. It will be the responsibility of responsible politicians in the United States to guide Americans peacefully into uncharted political territory. These coming months will be a challenge and a test of the maturity and good sense of the American political establishment across the political spectrum.

I am used to the way Trump talks so that part doesn't worry me about him. What worries me is the kind of knuckleheads he's surrounding himself with like Palin, Christie, Giuliani. THOSE people scare me. He (Trump) had better soften up in certain areas for me to choose him over Bernie. LIke the idea of having both Pauls involved in some substantial way. They represent the future and Christie's ilk represents the past of static regression.


a reply to: TheRedneck

a reply to: TheRedneck

Political correctness is the one thing destroying this nation. S&F and well written. I don't trust trump either, but I give him the benefit of the doubt. I have my own reasons for withholding trust on Trump though. But if the rumors are true that he is anti establishment, then I'll go with the lesser of the two evils, because the alternative would destroy this nation.

At-least Trump Speaks common sense, which is a plus in my book. But I am with you on not affiliating myself to any party. But here's hoping Trump is the real deal. Otherwise we are screwed & distracted.

originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: nwtrucker

That's the purpose of the recent Executive Order. Obama will not refuse to leave; the Task Force he put in place will demand he stay until things can be 'fixed.' Expect Obama to overtly complain about having to stay.

TheRedneck

Umm perhaps the push for gun control over the past 8 years?

Also the reason why military has been keep overseas?

Liberal/Progressive: interpret the Constitution as needed to enforce 'enlightened' policies; regulate and tax commerce; consolidate power on the Federal level; use military actions to police other countries.
TheRedneck

Yes, that is a really different interpretation of progressive than mine. "a person advocating or implementing social reform or new, liberal ideas"
And Obama is clearly a person in opposition to social reform (while as I say pretending otherwise). Case in point, healthcare reform. Warmed over Republicanism for the benefit of the corporate health care vipers. He is the most conservative president since Ronald Reagan.

a reply to: TheRedneck

Your post is an excellent analysis. I'd have to say I just don't know how this is going to turn out, but like you, I and my family have established a "safe" house in a very remote area so we can watch the outcome in relative safety.

There's one "blind spot" I didn't see you address, (maybe I missed it). That is the ability of the Dems to exploit their control over the Large Metro Area voting systems. Practically every major Metro area is under Democrat control and they've exhibited mastery of election fraud on a massive scale. Clinton should easily carry the coasts and the swing states Cities are under Dem control. All they have to do is rig the purple suburbs and they should be able to carry the swing states.

Check: www.270towin.com...

Looks to me like Trump has bigger problems than he realizes.

Don't get me wrong, I despise Clinton and my two biggest concerns are her doing a gun grab and pushing through regs that will double electric rates.

Care to address this?

ETA: as I was typing this, it occured to me how useful another Sandy Hook would be to Clinton with the anti-2nd Amendment crowd.

a reply to: TonyS

Even the Clinton machine can only overcome so much grassroots support. Also, remember that Trump isn't a politician. He's a businesman. He knows how to win, how to destroy opponents. I cannot imagine that there is not a press group right now with a stack of dirt on Clinton. But it won't see the light of day until the right time.

I don't trust that map. As busy as the polls have been this cycle, there's a lot of gray (unpolled) states. I also think he has a shot at New England, and possibly some of the West coast.

It will definitely be interesting.

TheRedneck

a reply to: TheRedneck

It's great to see you, too!

I don't think Obama's EO is different from any other. It's a pretty generic document.

originally posted by: TheRedneck
Clinton is safe for now (assuming Sanders doesn't pull a rabbit out of his hat at the last minute, which would surprise me).

Trump is the only other option. But he is a crook with no political experience.

I'd vote for Clinton before Trump based soley on an article I read today of how Trump defrauded New York City.

a reply to: Miracula2

LOL, that's a good one.
Name me a politician that isn't crooked.

Rethink Trump! He's at least a successful crook! Although, obviously Hilary is a successful crook as well.........or, well, Bill is.

a reply to: ipsedixit
Wow-impressed-so very well expressed. Curious times indeed-and we're all here to see it. Is that good or bad? Is the average voter more informed or formed by the powers that be i.e. MSM? So overwhelming but you helped so much to detangle this American nightmare. Thank you.

a reply to: dismanrc
Nah, O's had enough actually more responsibility than he can handle. He can't wait to get to his mansion in Hawaii and away from Michelle-their fights are legendary-can't wait for the book-kinda like the Clintons although it is said he does enjoy the Chicago bathhouses, allegedly.

I agree with your view. I have said that if Trump does not win, we will be seeing a lot of protests & riots. I have lived through many campaigns & elections. I have also lived through many years of changes but I can honestly say I have never seen the US filled with such hatred & anger. I've never seen a campaign where NO CANDIDATES are viewed as good presidential material. I'm glad I live far in the woods!!!

Very good points!!!! I agree!! I believe the US, being a young country, is now facing the same things the other older countries have been dealing with for ages. a reply to: ipsedixit

originally posted by: Nobodys
Very good points!!!! I agree!! I believe the US, being a young country, is now facing the same things the other older countries have been dealing with for ages. a reply to: ipsedixit

Really? Because it popped into existence out of nowhere or what? There were several very active politicians involved in laying the foundations of the USA and they lived in political systems before, you know.
The population also was experienced in living in states, or do you think all the settlers fell out of the skies, or had total amnesia?

originally posted by: TonyS
a reply to: Miracula2

LOL, that's a good one.
Name me a politician that isn't crooked.

Rethink Trump! He's at least a successful crook! Although, obviously Hilary is a successful crook as well.........or, well, Bill is.

Everyone possesses some ethical problems. Difference is Hillary Clinton has political experience. If I have to choose between two crooks I will choose one who has already been Secretary of State.

It's time for our country to be run like a business. Most of us are employed by a business. Government officials just take our taxpayer dollars, throw them at crazy projects and gullibly hand huge sums (of our money!) to countries that don't deserve it.