Liberal Left DENY Natural Climate Change!

I can prove, using basic math, that the apocalyptic man-made global-warming predictions are a fabricated hoax, and that the liberal left deny that the climate changes in any natural way.

Humans ADD heat to the earth. Whether it's greenhouse gases, or our modern lifestyles, there is some warmth ADDED to the earth because of human activity. Let's say, for example, that human activity will ADD 2 degrees of warmth to the earth this century.

The climate does change naturally. We have ice-core records going back in time that show quick changes in the earth's temperature, before human activity caused any impact. The temperature has been shown to increase or decrease 10 degrees or more in just a few decades, all naturally.

When looking at the long history of natural climate change, the last 7-8000 years have been quite stable, changing by a couple degrees per century, naturally, on some occasions. This warm stability has coincidentally seen the rise of human technology and advancement.

No one knows how long this stability will last!

If the climate NATURALLY wants to change drastically, it will. An addition of 2 degrees of warmth by human activity this century does not mean that the Climate will be 2 degrees warmer. Natural climate change could increase the temperature by 5 degrees this century. If you add another 2 degrees, it will be 7 degrees warmer.

5 + 2 = 7

More likely, because the earth is long due for re-glaciation, the Climate will become colder, and it is entirely within the realm of probability that natural climate change causes the earth's average temperature to drop by up to 10 degrees in just a few decades. If humans ADD 2 degrees of warmth, the temperature would still be 8 degrees colder.

-10 + 2 = -8

If the two scenarios were compared, either extreme warming versus extreme cooling, both could potentially have devastating effects, but a colder earth would be much more destructive. The amount of land lost to rising sea temperatures from a heating world would be compensated by an increase in agriculturally-productive land that becomes more available in currently cooler climates. A rapidly cooling earth would lose much of its productive land, and gain no immediate compensation because it would take thousands of years for glaciers to accumulate enough water for the sea levels to lower and expose more productive land currently offshore.

The Liberal Left are DENYING that the climate changes naturally when they predict an increase in temperature. We don't know if it'll go up or down naturally, and human activity adding 2 degrees of warmth does not mean it will warm. By claiming that human activity is the ONLY factor that changes the climate, they are DENYING real science, and DENYING natural climate change.

This message has been brought to you by an independent thinker, not by any private agency or political party.

originally posted by: Robotswilltakeover
By claiming that human activity is the ONLY factor that changes the climate, they are DENYING real science, and DENYING natural climate change.

I don't know anyone who's claiming that climate change is caused ONLY by human activity. Show me a credible person in the climate change discussion and who's part of the left, who's claiming that ONLY human activity is responsible.

I would call myself Liberal left and I don't agree that the changes the Earth is undergoing is man made. Sure at most man has contributed to it a smidgeon, but we certainly do not create climate change whether it's warming or cooling.

Some here will call you a moron for thinking this way, because they have read all the data and concur with it.

Best of luck with the thread

originally posted by: Robotswilltakeover
I can prove, using basic math, that the apocalyptic man-made global-warming predictions are a fabricated hoax, and that the liberal left deny that the climate changes in any natural way.

Humans ADD heat to the earth. Whether it's greenhouse gases, or our modern lifestyles, there is some warmth ADDED to the earth because of human activity. Let's say, for example, that human activity will ADD 2 degrees of warmth to the earth this century.

The climate does change naturally. We have ice-core records going back in time that show quick changes in the earth's temperature, before human activity caused any impact. The temperature has been shown to increase or decrease 10 degrees or more in just a few decades, all naturally.

When looking at the long history of natural climate change, the last 7-8000 years have been quite stable, changing by a couple degrees per century, naturally, on some occasions. This warm stability has coincidentally seen the rise of human technology and advancement.

No one knows how long this stability will last!

If the climate NATURALLY wants to change drastically, it will. An addition of 2 degrees of warmth by human activity this century does not mean that the Climate will be 2 degrees warmer. Natural climate change could increase the temperature by 5 degrees this century. If you add another 2 degrees, it will be 7 degrees warmer.

5 + 2 = 7

More likely, because the earth is long due for re-glaciation, the Climate will become colder, and it is entirely within the realm of probability that natural climate change causes the earth's average temperature to drop by up to 10 degrees in just a few decades. If humans ADD 2 degrees of warmth, the temperature would still be 8 degrees colder.

-10 + 2 = -8

If the two scenarios were compared, either extreme warming versus extreme cooling, both could potentially have devastating effects, but a colder earth would be much more destructive. The amount of land lost to rising sea temperatures from a heating world would be compensated by an increase in agriculturally-productive land that becomes more available in currently cooler climates. A rapidly cooling earth would lose much of its productive land, and gain no immediate compensation because it would take thousands of years for glaciers to accumulate enough water for the sea levels to lower and expose more productive land currently offshore.

The Liberal Left are DENYING that the climate changes naturally when they predict an increase in temperature. We don't know if it'll go up or down naturally, and human activity adding 2 degrees of warmth does not mean it will warm. By claiming that human activity is the ONLY factor that changes the climate, they are DENYING real science, and DENYING natural climate change.

This message has been brought to you by an independent thinker, not by any private agency or political party.

The math issue involved in climate change, isn't anything you have listed, nor anything to do with historical climate patterns.

The math is , how much more heat does CO2 and other green house gases hold, then oxygen and such...

Then how much CO2, over the natural amount expected are we creating.

So then you figure what amount of CO2, will be filtered out by plants and such.

Adding the extra unfiltered amount of co2 to the "parts per million" of our atmosphere, how much heat can the atmosphere hold at our distance from the sun.

That is why 95+% of scientists buy it. It's very straight forward math saying CO2 and humanity effect the atmospheric conditions and temperature of the planet.

Now, there are oodles of variables that would decide the actual temperature of the planet and the effects that CO2 will have. You might make Siberia farmable increasing the worlds bread basket. The ocean might absorb more heat then expected, but the currents draw it away from the arctic regions allowing the ice to remain.

What is not even debatable is level CO2 retains heat and the fact we create LOADS of it.

The fact CO2 holds more heat then nitrogen and oxygen is not debatable....

The fact we are producing oodles of CO2 is not debatable.


What effect that will have on the planet, is only fair question.

a reply to: Robotswilltakeover

The change isn't the issue, it is the rate.
If people deny natural change they are wrong, but I haven't seen it much.

a reply to: Robotswilltakeover

My grass is growing faster and my trees are getting bushier and producing more fruits and nuts (much like our present sociopolitical environment). So I guess I am doing my part in absorbing excess co2 ;-) If everybody gets with the program, I guess we'll get the next ice age on time lol, like we as humans are so bloody powerful and egocentric that we actually believe our on BS that we are going to be able to control nature without I'll effects at our present level of intellectual and technological incompetency.

I not liberal left but I do think it's a little unfair to pidgeon-hole the entire group. I image that maybe 10% of them can think critically. It does appear there are equal amounts of crazy and stupid people on both sides of the fence. Our problem however is not climate change, it's adaptation to future environmental change. Oh, and cleaning the gene pool of psychopaths.

Cheers - Dave

a reply to: Robotswilltakeover

So now even climate change is a left/right issue?
Americans need to put down those damn pompoms and stop cheerleading for your "team" at every pathetic opportunity.

originally posted by: Robotswilltakeover
I can prove, using basic math, that the apocalyptic man-made global-warming predictions are a fabricated hoax

*awaits math*

-10 + 2 = -8

*closes thread*

a reply to: Rocker2013

I find it fascinating that environmental issues are so bitterly divided into either left or right perspectives.

You know that must mean the truth is somewhere in the middle.

a reply to: Sremmos80

But that's what the O.P is saying, does anyone know what the Differing figures should naturally be?

With all the opportunities for fracking, potential new oil fields and the like, what price the data changing to suggest no matter what contribution man makes, it will not be big enough to effect the end result.

What is going to happen will happen regardless of the efforts to reduce our effects.

Alternative energy sources need to be used more for sure. When I holidayed in Turkey almost twenty years ago, the hotel's whole electricity supply was produced through Solar Power.

There used to be incentives for people to purchase Solar Panels and assist in feeding the National Grid. Once Fracking became a viable option, the incentives were removed.

The Coalition Government announced that all homes will be Natural Gas free from 2019. Homes would need to be serviced through alternative energy sources. That has now been dropped because of the potential of Gas supplies available through Fracking.

But, that's just probably my own delusional paranoia of my Government.

The problem is bigger than climate change, and mankind's contribution to it.

In an increasingly "westernized" world, with population of 7 billion and growing. Sustaining these populations, and the increasing modern way of life. You know there are countries only now catching up with the rest of the modern world, and they are poisoning the environment and polluting more in the process. The corruption, and wealth builds a powerful elite class that will do everything they can to keep it all going...

The answer is, there are no answers.

At some point the whole thing becomes unstable, unsustainable and collapses. Leading to all kinds of unimaginable ugliness...

Maybe after that we will have learned some important lessons, before we do it all over again generations later?

originally posted by: ausername
a reply to: Rocker2013

I find it fascinating that environmental issues are so bitterly divided into either left or right perspectives.

You know that must mean the truth is somewhere in the middle.

There is. step away from americans and listen to what scientists say elsewhere in the world where they dont give a toss about american politicians.

a reply to: Cobaltic1978

But that's what the O.P is saying, does anyone know what the Differing figures should naturally be?

Well when we pump more and more CO2 into the atmosphere, we see the increases which we have not seen before.

What is going to happen will happen regardless of the efforts to reduce our effects.

Sure, but not at the rate that it is happening now. The statement that "It is going to change anyway" is correct, but that isn't what people are worried about.

We need to stop fracking, at least we can ( I think) both agree on that.

originally posted by: Sremmos80
a reply to: Cobaltic1978

We need to stop fracking, at least we can ( I think) both agree on that.

Yes we certainly can, but not for the climate's sake. It's in realising that corporations stand to make £billions through penetrating the Earth and guzzling the poison into her.

Anthropogenic climate change is real.

Natural warming cycles and aberrant warming events are also real.

I'm not a liberal.

Conservatives caused the climate to change.

Only 3 things will stop the climate from changing.

1. Raise taxes
2. Jail anyone that doesn't agree with man made climate change
3. Close GITMO and enact harsh gun control laws.

Amen.

a reply to: DBCowboy

1. Raise taxes

This is, unfortunately, the only remedy liberals can think of. I find it to be just as anti-science as the people who think sweeping snow off their porch makes AGW theory invalid.

a reply to: DBCowboy

Yes that is a good list of the usual red herrings and strawman arguments.

originally posted by: Sremmos80
a reply to: DBCowboy

Yes that is a good list of the usual red herrings and strawman arguments.

My list is just as valid and realistic as anyone else's solutions.